Software Needs Philosophers

[Stormcoder]

Re: John Bokma harassment

Five is not excessive when they are on topic and they are on topic. If
you don't like his posts ignore them, killfile them, whatever. I took
the time to write his ISP a supporting email because it is important to
keep unpopular speech, even more than popular speech, free. Censoring
usenet serves no good purpose.

[Ant]

Re: John Bokma harassment

John Bokma wrote:[color=blue]
> That's because you're clueless.[/color]

Well argued. No really. Not quite sure what you base the allegations on
of course.

John, you're well out of order getting this guy into problems with his
ISP. Ken Tilton has it spot on - if everyone who wasn't interested in
what he had to say ignored it, then it would make it far easier for
those actually interested in the topic to reply, without a tirade of
off topic abuse to filter through.

I'm not a particular Xah fan, but I do find some of the threads
provoked by his posts interesting. What is more of a concern to me is
that he should have freedom to post on relevant newsgroups. Take a look
at his site. You'll find that he is actually interested in the 5 or so
newsgroups he cross-posts to, and his posts are general enough to apply
to each of them.

In short, get off of your soap box - if you don't like what the guy has
to say then *ignore it*.

FYI - I have written in support of Xah Lee to the ISP simply because I
don't see why your personal problem with the guy should cost him money.

[John Bokma]

Re: John Bokma harassment

Bill Atkins <NOatkinwSPAM@r pi.edu> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Life is short, John Bokma. There are more important things in the
> world than tattling on Xah to his host. Maybe you can start
> experiencing them[/color]

Maybe check out my site first before you make another silly remark.
Typically that (almost?) everybody defending Xah has so little clue.
[color=blue]
> if you learn to make use of the 'next message' key.[/color]

Add up years of pressing that key, and add up the time it takes to send a
few emails.

If I considered Usenet a waste of time, I would have given up on it years
ago.

And finally, never thought about that it can be fun?
[color=blue][color=green]
>> So you haven't noticed that Xah does just hit & run posting?[/color]
>
> I've noticed it - but have you?[/color]

Since I mentioned, what do you think? (now wait...)
[color=blue]
> It would be only one post that could easily be ignored, if not for all
> this rubbish that you and people like you feel the need to post (sure,[/color]

Yup, which is not going to stop. Posting "Don't feed the trolls" messages
don't help.
[color=blue]
> I realize I'm contributing to the problem). Isn't "hit & run posting"
> better than a thread full of nonsense?[/color]

And ain't it cool that reporting Xah's abuse might stop both?

--
John Bokma Freelance software developer
&
Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/

[John Bokma]

Re: John Bokma harassment

olsongt@verizon .net wrote:
[color=blue]
> Both johnbokma.com and castleamber.com are hosted by seagull.net. Here
> is a link to their TOS:
>
> http://www.seagull.net/tos.html
>
> Who can come up with the most violations that John is committing on
> this thread? I count 4.[/color]

Be my guest: hostmaster at seagull dot net.

--
John MexIT: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/
personal page: http://johnbokma.com/
Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html

[George Sakkis]

Re: John Bokma harassment

Robert Boyd wrote:
[color=blue]
> On 24 May 2006 08:29:57 -0700, Rune Strand <rune.strand@gm ail.com> wrote:[color=green]
> >[/color]
>[color=green]
> > I can just declare my support. Reading Mr. Bokmas comments below[*]
> > certainly makes my suport stronger.
> >[/color]
>
> I sent an email in support of Xah, which I wouldn't have bothered to
> do had I not read the rapid-fire posts from Bokma which were abusive,
> insulting, and arrogant. Xah's posts often make me roll my eyes, or I
> skip them, but sometimes (and more so lately) they have been
> intriguing and foster thought-provoking replies. I'd prefer debate and
> discussion be fostered, rather than squelched. But what does this
> clueless sock-puppet know? ;)[/color]

It's funny how a single obnoxious self-righteous usenet-nazi can make a
slightly annoying loonie look good. I'm sure Bokma's ISP will get some
unfriendly emails about him soon, if this hasn't started happening
already.

[Eli Gottlieb]

Re: John Bokma harassment

olsongt@verizon .net wrote:[color=blue]
> John Bokma wrote:
>[color=green]
>>"Ant" <antroy@gmail.c om> wrote:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>I have no particular affinity for Xah's views, but what does get up my
>>>nose is usenet Nazism.[/color]
>>
>>That's because you're clueless.
>>
>>--
>>John MexIT: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/
>> personal page: http://johnbokma.com/
>> Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
>> Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html[/color]
>
>
> Time for a game!
>
> Both johnbokma.com and castleamber.com are hosted by seagull.net. Here
> is a link to their TOS:
>
> http://www.seagull.net/tos.html
>
> Who can come up with the most violations that John is committing on
> this thread? I count 4.
>[/color]
Let's not drop to his level.
--
The science of economics is the cleverest proof of free will yet
constructed.

[John Bokma]

Re: John Bokma harassment

fup-to poster

"Ant" <antroy@gmail.c om> wrote:
[color=blue]
> John Bokma wrote:[color=green]
>> That's because you're clueless.[/color]
>
> Well argued. No really. Not quite sure what you base the allegations
> on of course.[/color]

Like I said, clueless.
[color=blue]
> John, you're well out of order getting this guy into problems with his
> ISP.[/color]

Based on what "order"? The law of the Usenet Kook?
[color=blue]
> Ken Tilton has it spot on - if everyone who wasn't interested in
> what he had to say ignored it, then it would make it far easier for
> those actually interested in the topic to reply, without a tirade of
> off topic abuse to filter through.[/color]

If Xah posts to just one group, on topic, the problem is gone. But Xah
is spamvertizing his website, and hence posts to 5 groups (since I guess
that's a limit GG sets, not Xah), so he doesn't care that a post on
whitespace in Python ends up in a group on Java or Perl.
[color=blue]
> I'm not a particular Xah fan, but I do find some of the threads
> provoked by his posts interesting. What is more of a concern to me is
> that he should have freedom to post on relevant newsgroups.[/color]

He has.
[color=blue]
> Take a look
> at his site. You'll find that he is actually interested in the 5 or so
> newsgroups he cross-posts to, and his posts are general enough to
> apply to each of them.[/color]

In that very rare case he should pick a single group that matches his
diatribe the best. And in the very rare case that 3 groups are on topic,
he could set a follow up to.
[color=blue]
> In short, get off of your soap box - if you don't like what the guy
> has to say then *ignore it*.[/color]

No, that's the joke. I won't ignore it. And you're mistaken to think I
am the only one that has reported Xah.

It's simple: Xah has to stick to the netiquette, or complaints will go
to his next hosting provider. In the end Xah either pays quite some
money for bullet proof hosting (since that is what a host that offers a
safe haven to spammers is called), or he goes yelling somewhere else.
[color=blue]
> FYI - I have written in support of Xah Lee to the ISP simply because I
> don't see why your personal problem with the guy should cost him
> money.[/color]

So you waste money of an ISP... The decision has been made, a few days
ago even.

--
John MexIT: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/
personal page: http://johnbokma.com/
Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html

[Ant]

Re: John Bokma harassment

Getting eloquent isn't he? ;-)

[Mitch]

Re: John Bokma harassment

John Bokma wrote:[color=blue]
> Mitch <spudtheimpaler @hotORgooMAIL.i nvalid> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> John Bokma wrote:
>> [...][color=darkred]
>>> You're mistaken. All you need to do is report it. After some time Xah
>>> will either walk in line with the rest of the world, or has found
>>> somewhere else to yell. As long as it's not my back garden and not
>>> around 4AM, I am ok with it.
>>>[/color]
>> Walk in line with the rest of the world? Pah.
>>
>> This is no-ones back garden.[/color]
>
> Funny how people who always think they can "change Usenet" have no clue
> about what Usenet is and how it works in the first place.[/color]

Who said anything about changing it? I like it just the way it is.
[color=blue]
>
> Usenet is just that, each server participating can be thought of as being
> the back yard of the news master.[/color]

Sure, each server has terms and conditions that apply, doesn't mean you
should be able to ban people from speaking just because you don't like
what they say. My point is that this isn't *your* back garden, it isn't
*my* back garden. It isn't something I own, and it *IS* something I can
filter and/or ignore. Someone shouting in your back garden is a whole
different ball game where your desires prevail. Not here. You know
what you are getting into when you sign in, and it is your
responsibility to deal with those you don't agree with personally.

I understand you consider his writings spam, and so can see why you have
reported him. All I'm saying is that as long as the articles are
remotely on topic, I believe he has a right to post his opinions here.
[color=blue]
> If you have no clue about how Usenet works, first read up a bit. What a
> Usenet server is, a feed, and how Usenet is distributed.
>
> And then come back if you finally have something to say that you can back
> up.
>[/color]

Thankfully I'm aware enough of all the above that I don't feel the need.

As these are all opinions, I don't see any need to "back up" any of it.

[Bill Atkins]

Re: John Bokma harassment

John Bokma <john@castleamb er.com> writes:
[color=blue]
> If Xah posts to just one group, on topic, the problem is gone. But Xah
> is spamvertizing his website, and hence posts to 5 groups (since I guess
> that's a limit GG sets, not Xah), so he doesn't care that a post on
> whitespace in Python ends up in a group on Java or Perl.[/color]

[snip]
[color=blue]
> --
> John MexIT: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/
> personal page: http://johnbokma.com/
> Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
> Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html[/color]

Interesting. Doesn't your signature contain advertisements for your
website? Aren't you posting to five different groups?

--
You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most
famous is, "Never get involved in a land war in Asia", but only
slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against a Sicilian when
death is on the line"!

[John Bokma]

Re: John Bokma harassment

fup to poster

Mitch <spudtheimpaler @hotORgooMAIL.i nvalid> wrote:
[color=blue]
> John Bokma wrote:[/color]

[...]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Funny how people who always think they can "change Usenet" have no
>> clue about what Usenet is and how it works in the first place.[/color]
>
> Who said anything about changing it? I like it just the way it is.[/color]

You don't.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Usenet is just that, each server participating can be thought of as
>> being the back yard of the news master.[/color][/color]

[ .. ]
[color=blue]
> here. You know what you are getting into when you sign in, and it is
> your responsibility to deal with those you don't agree with
> personally.[/color]

I did.
[color=blue]
> I understand you consider his writings spam, and so can see why you
> have reported him. All I'm saying is that as long as the articles are
> remotely on topic, I believe he has a right to post his opinions here.[/color]

Where is *here*? That's exactly my point. All his posts go to 5 groups, as
the replies to his posts. I have no problem if he posts in one of those
groups, or even three if he sets a follow-up to. But Xah just dumps his
load in 5 groups, no matter if it's on topic in any of them.

And since they all promote his website, and Xah never joins the discussion
(except to cry wolf when he has been "harassed", overlooking that he has
been harassing Usenet for quite some time) I consider his posts spam. Yet
I report it as excessive cross posting.
[color=blue]
> As these are all opinions, I don't see any need to "back up" any of
> it.[/color]

"My" opinion is shared by his hosting provider, and probably the next as
well, unless Xah decides to pay a bit more.

--
John Bokma Freelance software developer
&
Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/

[Kay Schluehr]

Re: John Bokma harassment


bradb wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
> > C'mon, John Bokma (and everyone else dumb enough to crosspost their
> > shushing to every group on the crosspost list -- why do they do that? So
> > Xah will hear them six times? No, they want everyone to see how witty
> > they are when they tell Xah off. Now /that/ is spam) is the problem.
> >
> > kenny[/color]
>
> I agree. It is not Xah who is the problem, but the 200 replies to him
> telling him to go away.[/color]

To make a witty comment: Xah starts flamewars and people really *do*
like to contribute although they find it awfull. Xah is the star, who
undresses his mind. But good and sensitive people don't like liking to
contribute in those nasty battles and believe their time is deserved to
something less wastefull. I mildly disagree with attitude and tend to
think that most serious work is a waste of time. Xah lets people really
do what they want: ranting about other programming languages, ranting
about programming language communities ( which are mostly boring and
awfull but that's kind of a familiy thing: my family is boring and
awfull too but when being attacked it's still my family ) and ranting
about trolls that let them do what they want. Everything in the name of
Xah the lord of misrule. If any language community was actually cool -
unfortunetaly there is none - they would invite Xah to write essays for
them. A kind of weekly "Xah commentary" on the state of the language (
and of course its documentation and other languages etc. ). Maybe it
would evolve quite fine if Xah could be pacified?

[Mitch]

Re: John Bokma harassment

John Bokma wrote:[color=blue]
> fup to poster
>
> Mitch <spudtheimpaler @hotORgooMAIL.i nvalid> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> John Bokma wrote:[/color]
>
> [...]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Funny how people who always think they can "change Usenet" have no
>>> clue about what Usenet is and how it works in the first place.[/color][/color][/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Who said anything about changing it? I like it just the way it is.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
>
> You don't.
>[/color]

All that I snipped is your opinion, which is yours to do with as you
please. "I like it just the way it is." is *MY* opinion, so please
don't try to change it. I think I know my opinion best.

And as for setting it to reply to only you, I changed that back. I
don't think you censoring (redirecting) other peoples replies/opinions
serves the purpose of this thread well.

[D H]

Re: John Bokma harassment

Kay Schluehr wrote:[color=blue]
> To make a witty comment:
> Xah is the star, who undresses his mind.[/color]
[color=blue]
> But good and sensitive people don't like liking to
> contribute in those nasty battles and believe their time is deserved to
> something less wastefull.[/color]
[color=blue]
> I mildly disagree with attitude and tend to
> think that most serious work is a waste of time.[/color]
[color=blue]
> Everything in the name of Xah the lord of misrule.[/color]


Dude, pony up for another english class, so you can keep on trolling as
eloquently as Xah.

[Mumia W.]

Re: John Bokma harassment

Xah Lee wrote:[color=blue]
> I'm sorry to trouble everyone. But as you might know, due to my
> controversial writings and style, recently John Bokma lobbied people to
> complaint to my web hosting provider. After exchanging a few emails, my
> web hosting provider sent me a 30-day account cancellation notice last
> Friday. [...][/color]

I sent an e-mail to them to try to help you.

I hope you don't lose your account; I enjoy your postings.