Software Needs Philosophers

[Eli Gottlieb]

Re: Software Needs Philosophers

John D Salt wrote:[color=blue]
> <corff@zedat. fu-berlin.de> wrote in news:4dbartF19c b9rU1@uni-berlin.de:
>
> [Snips]
>[color=green]
>>Wrong. We live in a paradise of ideas and possibilities well beyond the
>>wildest dreams of only 20 years ago.[/color]
>
>
> What exciting new ideas exist in software that are both important and
> cannot be traced back to 1986 or earlier?
>
> I'd like to believe that there are some, but I can't think of any at the
> moment.
>
> All the best,
>
> John.[/color]
I correct: We live in a paradise where we finally have to processing
power to realize all those ideas that were too inefficient 20 years ago.

--
The science of economics is the cleverest proof of free will yet
constructed.

[John Thingstad]

Re: Software Needs Philosophers

On Tue, 23 May 2006 15:58:12 +0200, John D Salt <jdsalt_AT_gota dsl.co.uk>
wrote:
[color=blue]
> <corff@zedat. fu-berlin.de> wrote in news:4dbartF19c b9rU1@uni-berlin.de:
>
> [Snips][color=green]
>> Wrong. We live in a paradise of ideas and possibilities well beyond the
>> wildest dreams of only 20 years ago.[/color]
>
> What exciting new ideas exist in software that are both important and
> cannot be traced back to 1986 or earlier?
>
> I'd like to believe that there are some, but I can't think of any at the
> moment.
>
> All the best,
>
> John.[/color]

Well most have to do with wireless nets and connectivity.
One is that all compoters will be connected to the net all of the time.
When you go out you will not bring a mobile phone you will bring a PDA
(Personal data assistant).
You can call people, listent to music, wach videoes. You can connect to
the web cans at home and see that the children are ok or turn the oven on
while on the way back from work, etc.
As you move from sector to another the PDA aquites the closest transmitter
and hooks on to it. Most use wireless networks to
connect aplliances in their homes.
Instead of tv stations you order movies and TV series from online
servers. etc..

Also the AI part. AI will not consist of cumputers trying to pretend to
be people. The will take vocal commands. The will remember your
preferences.
It will know when you are on vacation. Turn the alarm on, lower the house
theperature
and turn on lights periodically to make it look inhabited.
It will know what movies and shows you like to watch and order them
accordingly.
It will know who you know and order incoming messages accordingly by
priority,
also block out those you do not what contact with.

There is now a clear idea of how windows systems should behave.
Windows interfaces have evolved accordingly. It is now far less
tedious to connect systems to the net or make a windows interface..

etc, etc..

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

[John A. Bailo]

Re: Software Needs Philosophers

John D Salt wrote:[color=blue]
> <corff@zedat. fu-berlin.de> wrote in news:4dbartF19c b9rU1@uni-berlin.de:
>
> [Snips]
>[color=green]
>>Wrong. We live in a paradise of ideas and possibilities well beyond the
>>wildest dreams of only 20 years ago.[/color]
>
>
> What exciting new ideas exist in software that are both important and
> cannot be traced back to 1986 or earlier?[/color]

What exciting new ideas exist in software that are both important and
cannot be traced back to Doug Engbart's 1968 presentation at Xerox Parc?
[color=blue]
>
> I'd like to believe that there are some, but I can't think of any at the
> moment.
>
> All the best,
>
> John.[/color]

[SamFeltus]

Re: Software Needs Philosophers

Good question on new ideas vs old ideas. Seems to me the computer
industry needs some young brains, raised around the internet, to
generate some major new theoretical ideas for computers. Seems to me
it must already be occuring below the radar. When it happens, it
shouldn't be too hard to spot. It will make cool new things possible,
and won't make sense to most people over 25.

[Pascal Bourguignon]

Re: Software Needs Philosophers

John D Salt <jdsalt_AT_gota dsl.co.uk> writes:
[color=blue]
> <corff@zedat. fu-berlin.de> wrote in news:4dbartF19c b9rU1@uni-berlin.de:
>
> [Snips][color=green]
>> Wrong. We live in a paradise of ideas and possibilities well beyond the
>> wildest dreams of only 20 years ago.[/color]
>
> What exciting new ideas exist in software that are both important and
> cannot be traced back to 1986 or earlier?[/color]

Well, I would have thought of Genetic Programming but it dates back at
least 1980:

The first experiments with GP were reported by Stephen F. Smith
(1980) and Nichael L. Cramer (1985), as described in the famous
book Genetic Programming: On the Programming of Computers by Means
of Natural Selection by John Koza (1992).
[color=blue]
> I'd like to believe that there are some, but I can't think of any at the
> moment.[/color]

I think we're just in a Matrix loop...

--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/

COMPONENT EQUIVALENCY NOTICE: The subatomic particles (electrons,
protons, etc.) comprising this product are exactly the same in every
measurable respect as those used in the products of other
manufacturers, and no claim to the contrary may legitimately be
expressed or implied.

[Paul Rubin]

Re: Software Needs Philosophers

John D Salt <jdsalt_AT_gota dsl.co.uk> writes:[color=blue]
> What exciting new ideas exist in software that are both important and
> cannot be traced back to 1986 or earlier?[/color]

Automated spamming tools? ;-)

[Emmanuel Florac]

Re: Software Needs Philosophers

Le Tue, 23 May 2006 08:58:12 -0500, John D Salt a écrit :
[color=blue]
>
> What exciting new ideas exist in software that are both important and
> cannot be traced back to 1986 or earlier?[/color]

Actually it looks like the latest breakthru was invention of LISP circa
1957. Well, Perhaps OO paradigm and Smalltalk, circa 1973, too.

--
Le commissaire : Comment vous appelez-vous?
Garance : Moi je ne m'appelle jamais, je suis toujours là. J'ai pas
besoin de m'appeler. Mais les autres m'appellent Garance, si ça peut
vous intéresser.
Prévert,"les enfants du Paradis".

[John D Salt]

Re: Software Needs Philosophers

"John A. Bailo" <jabailo@texeme .com> wrote in
news:WOadnW-sRKmdoe7Z4p2dnA @speakeasy.net:

[Snips][color=blue]
> What exciting new ideas exist in software that are both important and
> cannot be traced back to Doug Engbart's 1968 presentation at Xerox
> Parc?[/color]

The only two I would think worth mentioning are Nygaard et al's ideas on
patterns as embodied in Mjolner Beta, and Colmerauer's on logic programming
as embodied in Prolog. And maybe pi calculus, if only for sticking the
formal foundation in where it was missing from under O-O.

But Prolog and pi calculus are regarded as marginal activities, and most
software people have stil contrived never to have heard of Nygaard, despite
his being the inventor (with Ole-Johan Dahl) of O-O in 1967.

All the best,

John.

[John D Salt]

Re: Software Needs Philosophers

Eli Gottlieb <eligottlieb@gm ail.com> wrote in
news:bLEcg.6900 $8G3.3785@twist er.nyroc.rr.com :

[Snips][color=blue]
> I correct: We live in a paradise where we finally have to processing
> power to realize all those ideas that were too inefficient 20 years
> ago.[/color]

That sounds more reasonable.

In my more jaundiced moments, I think that progress in software will not
resume until we stop the annual doubling of resources for bloatware to
consume.

All the best,

John.

[Xah Lee]

John Bokma harassment

I'm sorry to trouble everyone. But as you might know, due to my
controversial writings and style, recently John Bokma lobbied people to
complaint to my web hosting provider. After exchanging a few emails, my
web hosting provider sent me a 30-day account cancellation notice last
Friday.

I'm not sure I will be able to keep using their service, but I do hope
so. I do not like to post off-topic messages, but this is newsgroup
incidence is getting out of hand, and I wish people to know about it.

I wrote some full detail here:

http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/t2/harassment.html

If you believe this lobbying to my webhosting provider is unjust,
please write to my web hosting provider abuse@dreamhost .com

Your help is appreciated. Thank you.

Xah
xah@xahlee.org
∑ http://xahlee.org/

[Erik Max Francis]

Re: John Bokma harassment

Xah Lee wrote:
[color=blue]
> I'm sorry to trouble everyone. But as you might know, due to my
> controversial writings and style, recently John Bokma lobbied people to
> complaint to my web hosting provider. After exchanging a few emails, my
> web hosting provider sent me a 30-day account cancellation notice last
> Friday.[/color]

It's not simply harassment if your ISP considers it a TOS violation.
You did something, it was reported to your ISP, your ISP considered it a
violation of their TOS, were warned, failed to comply and continued
doing it, and now are suffering the consequences. Should this really be
any surprise to you?

This has nothing to do with whether you feel that the complaint or the
judgement against you was "right" -- this has happened before; this is
familiar territory for you. If you do something, your ISP tells you not
to do it anymore, and then you continue doing it, why should you be
surprised at the inevitable outcome? (I'm impressed they're giving you
a 30-day notice, quite frankly ... I'm sure you'll "take advantage" of it.)
[color=blue]
> I'm not sure I will be able to keep using their service, but I do hope
> so. I do not like to post off-topic messages, but this is newsgroup
> incidence is getting out of hand, and I wish people to know about it.[/color]

Apart from the obvious fact of you being a general tool, why would you
_want_ to consider continuing to use their service if you felt that they
were cutting you off unfairly?

The alternative is that you're not surprised by this action and are
simply trying to spin things in your favor.

--
Erik Max Francis && max@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
The woman's movement is no longer a cause but a symptom.
-- Joan Didion

[Dag Sunde]

Re: John Bokma harassment

"Xah Lee" <xah@xahlee.org > skrev i melding
news:1148459377 .384317.100730@ j73g2000cwa.goo glegroups.com.. .[color=blue]
> I'm sorry to trouble everyone. But as you might know, due to my
> controversial writings and style, recently John Bokma lobbied people to
> complaint to my web hosting provider. After exchanging a few emails, my
> web hosting provider sent me a 30-day account cancellation notice last
> Friday.[/color]

The solution to your problem is very simple:

Stop posting your "controvers ial writings and style" to public
newgroups, and keep them on your web-server where they belong.

<snipped />

--
Dag.

[ilitzroth@gmail.com]

Re: John Bokma harassment


Xah Lee schreef:
[color=blue]
> I'm sorry to trouble everyone. But as you might know, due to my
> controversial writings and style, recently John Bokma lobbied people to
> complaint to my web hosting provider. After exchanging a few emails, my
> web hosting provider sent me a 30-day account cancellation notice last
> Friday.
>
> I'm not sure I will be able to keep using their service, but I do hope
> so. I do not like to post off-topic messages, but this is newsgroup
> incidence is getting out of hand, and I wish people to know about it.
>
> I wrote some full detail here:
> http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_di...arassment.html
>
> If you believe this lobbying to my webhosting provider is unjust,
> please write to my web hosting provider abuse@dreamhost .com
>
> Your help is appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Xah
> xah@xahlee.org
> ∑ http://xahlee.org/[/color]

We seem to have strayed a long way from Voltaire's
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your
right to say it.",
but that was of course the age of enlightenment.
Immanuel

[Ant]

Re: John Bokma harassment

>From my point of view, this issue has two sides:

1) Xah is posting to the newgroups valid topics for discussion - if
some find these controversial, then all the better: it means that the
topic has provoked some thought. You only need to look at the quantity
of Xah's threads to see how popular they are (even if you filter out
the "you're in my kill file", or "plonk" style spam that some people
feel the need to post)

2) Xah cross posted the posts to several newsgroups he has an interest
in.

Now this second point should be the only factor for reporting him to
his ISP. Given that it has gone this far, wouldn't it be fair to give
the guy a break on the condition that if he wants to post to a variety
of newgroups, that he does it individually rather than as a cross post?

--
Ant...

[Ian Wilson]

Re: John Bokma harassment

ilitzroth@gmail .com wrote:[color=blue]
> Xah Lee schreef:
>[color=green]
>> <snip: plea for sympathy after being reported to ISP for persistent off-topic postings>[/color][/color]

Which reminds me of

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#not_losing

[color=blue]
> We seem to have strayed a long way from Voltaire's
> "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your
> right to say it.",[/color]

I don't think we have. Surely Voltaire didn't support speaking in
inappropriate fora? He didn't support causing a public nuisance?

Would you lay down *your* life to defend Xah's "right" to wallpaper your
street, your church, your school with printed essays about his personal
obsessions?

In societies with a right to free speech, there are limits on where and
how you may exercise that right. For example, you don't have a right to
force any newspaper or TV station to publish your speech.

Xah's ISP can decide whether their terms of service provide Xah with a
"right" to publish anything he wishes through their facilities
regardless of established standards of appropriateness .