4.01 Compliance Help

[David Stone]

Re: 4.01 Compliance Help

In article <1168548612.401 979.110310@p59g 2000hsd.googleg roups.com>,
aljamala@gmail. com wrote:

John Hosking wrote:

Your coding (nesting) is still badly mangled. A real validator would
have told you that. Looking at it by hand takes time, which is why
reasonable people won't do it for you (I did, yes, but don't go by
that...). Psot the code on a server, feed the URL to a validator, fix
what you can, then, if you *still* need help, come back by with the URL.

>
I tried, I dont know if this will help at all, its geocities so its
really limited, but free!
>

http://www.geocities.com/aal_jamal/hometest.html

>

Ah, but did you try actually feeding that URL into a validator and
looking at the results? Like this:

<http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=ht...es.com%2Faal_j
amal%2Fhometest .html>

"Result: Failed validation, 22 errors"

(I didn't look at the CSS, but W3C has a validator for that, too.)

View this page in IE and Firefox and you will notice a difference in
the size of that silver bar containing "dealer portfolio"...do es anyone
know why that might happen? thats basically my question, on different

Why does it matter if the size is different? How many of your users
will be looking at your page in different browsers simultaneously,
making comparisons between the page appearance?

browsers, it is getting rendered differently. If the link doesn't
help, then I apologize and you can disregard my message. It's just
that this is making my head spin especially since it is the last thing
I need to fix and its pesky.

I didn't look through your code (too much javascript for me) but...
In general, discrepancies between browsers - particularly FF and IE
- are likely to occur because (1) they have different defaults for
fonts, font sizes, etc. and (2) they have different methods of handling
errors (such as the 22 errors referred to above). Try looking at and
fixing your errors, then see if the problem persists.

[aljamala@gmail.com]

Re: 4.01 Compliance Help


David Stone wrote:

>
Ah, but did you try actually feeding that URL into a validator and
looking at the results? Like this:
>
<http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=ht...es.com%2Faal_j
amal%2Fhometest .html>
>
"Result: Failed validation, 22 errors"
>
(I didn't look at the CSS, but W3C has a validator for that, too.)
>

True, I didn't do that, but I took my actual intranet page's source
code and uploaded into the W3C validator:

Result: Passed validation
File: upload://Form Submission
Encoding: utf-8
Doctype: HTML 4.01 Transitional

Why does it matter if the size is different? How many of your users
will be looking at your page in different browsers simultaneously,
making comparisons between the page appearance?
>

I just like to be consistent I guess, but I may have to give it up
because its taking too long

I didn't look through your code (too much javascript for me) but...
In general, discrepancies between browsers - particularly FF and IE
- are likely to occur because (1) they have different defaults for
fonts, font sizes, etc. and (2) they have different methods of handling
errors (such as the 22 errors referred to above). Try looking at and
fixing your errors, then see if the problem persists.

thats helpful, thanks

[Andy Dingley]

Re: 4.01 Compliance Help


aljam...@gmail. com wrote:

I tried,

Not hard enough. You expect other people to help you, but you won't do
the bare minimum to co-operate. _Why_ should anyone else make a greater
effort?

I dont know if this will help at all, its geocities

Of course it won't. geocities and valid code are incompatible.


<plonk>

[Joel Shepherd]

Re: 4.01 Compliance Help

"Andy Dingley" <dingbat@codesm iths.comwrote:

aljam...@gmail. com wrote:
>

I tried,

>
Not hard enough.

Get over yourself. Did you even look to see what was posted? With the
exception of one complaint about a bogus background attribute and the
usual whining about geocities' kludgy way of injecting their JS at the
end, it validates, and it's fairly readable markup.

So what, exactly, is the problem now?

You expect other people to help you, but you won't do
the bare minimum to co-operate.

Then don't help. Save your breath, your precious advice, your invaluable
time, and your overbearing judgmental attitude and do something else.

Slapping back at someone who (A) Appears to have made an effort to do
what's been asked, (B) Is probably far less familiar with basic
techniques for breaking down problems like they're having than you or I,
is at best counterproducti ve.

I know: it's not a help desk. That's no excuse for your own attitude and
response.

To the OP: Andy "If you can't Google it, I can't teach it" Dingley may
be trying to suggest that you come up with a simplified, and valid, page
illustrating the problem you're having, and post that (in doing so, you
may solve your own problem).

Of course, he may be suggesting something else entirely, but since he
appears to be more intent on slapping you down than having a
constructive discussion, we'll probably never know what he has in mind.

Oddly, OP's crystal balls are usually as ineffective as those of
newsgroup regulars.

--
Joel.

[John Hosking]

Re: 4.01 Compliance Help

aljamala@gmail. com wrote:

>
I tried, I dont know if this will help at all, its geocities so its
really limited, but free!
>
http://www.geocities.com/aal_jamal/hometest.html

Thanks, the code looks better now (although for a test case you could
have trimmed it down some... ;-) ) but it happens that geocities, while
free, is a PITA to view and debug with. I, er, *don't care for them*.

For example, I can't determine what styles, if any, are being applied.
Your code mentions "stylesheet s/home.css", but I can't locate such a
file. I guess you didn't upload that. Right? (In which case, watch out:
any advice here will be *without* the CSS styling. Caveat codor.)

>
View this page in IE and Firefox and you will notice a difference in
the size of that silver bar containing "dealer portfolio"...do es anyone
know why that might happen? thats basically my question, on different
browsers, it is getting rendered differently. If the link doesn't
help, then I apologize and you can disregard my message.
>

You have a form element inside a table cell, and that might be part (or
all) of your problem. Forms need to be given a little extra space,
because browsers render them differently, with relatively little
opportunity for us to control their size. Maybe your <tdis just too
small (at the 24px implied by the bar_sliver.gif) for IE's rendering of
the form. When I get rid of the <form>, the problem (as I see it) goes
away. (Haven't tested with IE 7 though.)

Now, I know we've been pointing to your form/table nesting since the
start of your thread, but I've only now understood the effect you were
complaining about. Looking back (even to your first post) to examine
your code, I still can't find where you actually *need* a form. What
does it do for you (besides mess up your pretty layout)? Can you just
toss it and be free?

HTH
--
John

[aljamala@gmail.com]

Re: 4.01 Compliance Help


John Hosking wrote:

For example, I can't determine what styles, if any, are being applied.
Your code mentions "stylesheet s/home.css", but I can't locate such a
file. I guess you didn't upload that. Right? (In which case, watch out:
any advice here will be *without* the CSS styling. Caveat codor.)
>

Yes, I forgot the CSS but I don't think its the cause of the problem.

>
You have a form element inside a table cell, and that might be part (or
all) of your problem. Forms need to be given a little extra space,
because browsers render them differently, with relatively little
opportunity for us to control their size. Maybe your <tdis just too
small (at the 24px implied by the bar_sliver.gif) for IE's rendering of
the form. When I get rid of the <form>, the problem (as I see it) goes
away. (Haven't tested with IE 7 though.)

I tried removing the bar_sliver.gif altogether so it was just a white
background, and changing that 25 but it has no effect...The white area
containing the text + icon looks bigger in IE, making it bigger just
makes the area even bigger, cutting it down does nothing

Now, I know we've been pointing to your form/table nesting since the
start of your thread, but I've only now understood the effect you were
complaining about. Looking back (even to your first post) to examine
your code, I still can't find where you actually *need* a form. What
does it do for you (besides mess up your pretty layout)? Can you just
toss it and be free?

I can't toss the form because for certain users (not shown in the
example i put up), there is a currency drop down, which allows the user
to select the currency they want to view their data in. The form gets
submitted upon a selection change.

I agree...I do feel that it is the problem (form/table
nesting)...beca use when I add in the following code (which I dont
like)...it looks the same on IE

Why does adding those <td></tdfor IE/Opera fix it? I even ran into
section of the website on Firefox where the same happens

<table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0">
<tr>
<td nowrap>
<div class="portfoli o"><%=s%></div>
</td>
<td align="right" valign="top" nowrap>
<form name="frmCurren cy" action="<%
Request.ServerV ariables("SCRIP T_NAME") %>" method="post">

<%If blnIE or blnOpera or blnSubm Then%>
<td align="right" valign="top" nowrap>
<%End If%>
<div class="Bar">
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0">
<tr>

<td width="5"><img src="../images/spacer.gif" width="5"
alt=""></td>
<td valign="bottom" >
<%'ASP Code to show currency drop down%>
</td>
<td width="5"><img src="../images/spacer.gif" width="5"
alt=""></td>
<td align="right" valign="top" nowrap><a href="../home.asp"
onmouseover="ch angeImages('btn Home', '../images/home-over.gif'); return
true;" onmouseout="cha ngeImages('btnH ome', '../images/home.gif');
return true;"><img alt="Return to DigitalEdge Portfolio Summary"
name="btnHome" src="../images/home.gif" width="19" height="19"
border="0" align="bottom"> </a></td>

</tr>
</table>
</div>
<%If blnIE or blnOpera or blnSubm Then%>
</td>
<%End If%>
</form>
</td>
</tr>
</table>

[John Hosking]

Re: 4.01 Compliance Help

aljamala@gmail. com wrote:

>
I agree...I do feel that it is the problem (form/table
nesting)...beca use when I add in the following code (which I dont
like)...it looks the same on IE
>
Why does adding those <td></tdfor IE/Opera fix it? I even ran into
section of the website on Firefox where the same happens
>

I don't know why it seems to work. I know it's invalid code, so I
wouldn't want to depend on it (I won't say it works, only that it
*seems* to work). And we're back again to the subject of your thread.

It also gives you a couple of other problems, namely what to do with
that extra <tdand its contents, and how to reliably determine bIE or
bOpera or whatever-else. Browser-sniffing is fraught with peril...

<table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0">
<tr>
<td nowrap><div class="portfoli o"><%=s%></div></td>
<td align="right" valign="top" nowrap>
<form etc etc>
>
<%If blnIE or blnOpera or blnSubm Then%>
<td align="right" valign="top" nowrap>
<%End If%>
<div class="Bar">
<table etc>

</table>
</div>
<%If blnIE or blnOpera or blnSubm Then%>
</td>
<%End If%>
</form>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
>

I'm probably done here. I seem to have just about hit my limit on
knowledge+inter est+time. Good luck with your site.

--
John