php vs python

**Jeffrey Froman** · Jun 27 '08, 04:25 PM

Re: php vs python

notbob wrote:

I
persevere because it's more fun/challenging than video games

This is the crux of the matter from where I'm sitting. If the purpose of
learning a programming language is fun, then the primary relevant question
is:

Is it more fun to code in Python or PHP?

The answer is a no-brainer for me. It seems to me that Python is designed
from the ground up with my enjoyment in mind. Your Fun May Vary :-)

Jeffrey

**Carl Banks** · Jun 27 '08, 04:25 PM

Re: php vs python

On May 21, 4:10 pm, notbob <not...@nothome .comwrote:

Sometimes it seems overwhelming, but I
persevere because it's more fun/challenging than video games, which bore me
to tears.

Ha, exactly the opposite here.

Well, that's my actual question, then. Is php really so bad I'm just
wasting my time? Or is it really the quickest way to blog functionality?
Would I be better served in the long run learning python, which claims to be
easy as pie to learn/program (still looks hard to me). I admit I'm no code
geek. But, I'm not completely brain dead, either, and I need something to
keep my geezer brain sparking. What say ye?

If you just want to write a simple blog, PHP is probably good enough.
It's undeniably easier to jump into web programming with PHP--
partially because of it's widespread support and straightforward
usage, partially because Python web solutions tend to aim for
separability of content and presenation which raises the bar for
entry--and that could easily outweigh your concerns over quality of
the language.

(Incidentally: if you didn't want to start a religious war, it would
have been better if you had posted it separately to the two groups.
Lots of flamewars start by one person posting a cutdown not intended
for the ears of the other group.)

Carl Banks

**notbob** · Jun 27 '08, 04:25 PM

Re: php vs python

On 2008-05-21, Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamc op.netwrote:

your site. They may even have a blogging package you can administer
entries without any programming.
>
What's your end-goal here? If you can't program, you may be better off
with a package or tool that does all the heavy lifting for you.

I said I didn't want to do that, but that's not entirely true. I figured
I'd use one of the CMSs while learning how it works, much like linux. I
hate doing something without knowing why. Windows and Dreamweaver are good
examples. Nope. I want to get under the hood.

nb

**notbob** · Jun 27 '08, 04:25 PM

Re: php vs python

On 2008-05-21, Carl Banks <pavlovevidence @gmail.comwrote :

If you just want to write a simple blog, PHP is probably good enough.
It's undeniably easier to jump into web programming with PHP--
partially because of it's widespread support and straightforward
usage, partially because Python web solutions tend to aim for
separability of content and presenation which raises the bar for
entry--and that could easily outweigh your concerns over quality of
the language.
>
(Incidentally: if you didn't want to start a religious war, it would
have been better if you had posted it separately to the two groups.
Lots of flamewars start by one person posting a cutdown not intended
for the ears of the other group.)

Yeah, but years of usenet have taught me how to navigate the battlefield.
Your top paragraph above is the kind of advice I'm looking for. Thank you.

nb

**notbob** · Jun 27 '08, 04:25 PM

Re: php vs python

On 2008-05-21, Damon Getsman <dgetsman@amire hab.netwrote:

My suggestion, if you want to keep that gray meat sparking, is to go
with only html & php. You could have the php dumping your entries
into date/time named textfiles on there when you're writing, and when
someone is reading, it just orders them sequentially by the date &
time in their filenames.
>
Then again, you learn the HTML+PHP+MySQL thing and you've got a skill
that you can market on Craigslist to a bunch of people for $20/hr
+. :)

That certainly couldn't hurt. Thank you for your advice.

nb

**Paul Rubin** · Jun 27 '08, 04:25 PM

Re: php vs python

notbob <notbob@nothome .comwrites:

Well, that's my actual question, then. Is php really so bad I'm just
wasting my time? Or is it really the quickest way to blog functionality?

php is very easy to get started with and some big sites have been
written in it. There is lots of low cost php hosting available. It
is not as good a language as Python. However, Python's advantages are
strongest in more complex projects. For simple stuff, php is frankly
less hassle just because of its wide deployment and that extensive
function library that the blog post your quoted described as a bad
thing. Python's libraries are not bad, but php's are more intensely
focused on web apps and includes what you need as part of the standard
build. With Python, if you want a database adapter or web template
framework, you have to choose between a bunch of different ones and
download and configure it which often involves head scratching when
the auto-install stuff hits some quirk of your system. With php, it's
all right there when you flip the switch.

Knowing lots of languages is good for you. php is probably your
quickest route to getting a rudimentary web app running. Python
is a longer term project. Do both.

**Baris-C** · Jun 27 '08, 04:25 PM

Re: php vs python

On May 21, 11:10 pm, notbob <not...@nothome .comwrote:

I'm not posting this just to initiate some religious flame war, though it's
the perfect subject to do so. No, I actaully want some serious advice about
these two languages and since I think usenet is the best arena to find it,
here ya' go.
>
So, here's my delimna: I want to start a blog. Yeah, who doesn't. Yet, I
want learn the guts of it instead of just booting up some wordwank or
whatever. I started to learn python, but heard php was easier or fasteror
more like shell scripting or... fill in the blank. Anyway, so I change over
to learning php. Then I run across that blog, Coding Horror, and start
reading articles like this:
>

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001119.html

>
Now what? Go back to python. Soldier on with php? What do I know? Not
much. I can setup mysql and apache,, but don't know how to use 'em, really.
I use emacs and run slackware and can fumble my way through bash scripts,
but I can't really write them or do lisp. I've taken basic basic and basic
C, but am barely literate in html. Sometimes it seems overwhelming, butI
persevere because it's more fun/challenging than video games, which bore me
to tears.
>
Well, that's my actual question, then. Is php really so bad I'm just
wasting my time? Or is it really the quickest way to blog functionality?
Would I be better served in the long run learning python, which claims to be
easy as pie to learn/program (still looks hard to me). I admit I'm no code
geek. But, I'm not completely brain dead, either, and I need something to
keep my geezer brain sparking. What say ye?
>
nb

By the way anything goes to you..

**alex23** · Jun 27 '08, 04:25 PM

Re: php vs python

On May 22, 6:10 am, notbob <not...@nothome .comwrote:

Well, that's my actual question, then. Is php really so bad I'm just
wasting my time? Or is it really the quickest way to blog functionality?
Would I be better served in the long run learning python, which claims to be
easy as pie to learn/program (still looks hard to me). I admit I'm no code
geek. But, I'm not completely brain dead, either, and I need something to
keep my geezer brain sparking. What say ye?

Python has 71 built in functions (in 2.5). Atwood's list of PHP built
ins beginning with 'a' is 124 functions long.

There's a clear reason why people say Python "fits your brain" :)

**Larry Bates** · Jun 27 '08, 04:25 PM

Re: php vs python

notbob wrote:

I'm not posting this just to initiate some religious flame war, though it's
the perfect subject to do so. No, I actaully want some serious advice about
these two languages and since I think usenet is the best arena to find it,
here ya' go.
>
So, here's my delimna: I want to start a blog. Yeah, who doesn't. Yet, I
want learn the guts of it instead of just booting up some wordwank or
whatever. I started to learn python, but heard php was easier or faster or
more like shell scripting or... fill in the blank. Anyway, so I change over
to learning php. Then I run across that blog, Coding Horror, and start
reading articles like this:
>

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001119.html

>
Now what? Go back to python. Soldier on with php? What do I know? Not
much. I can setup mysql and apache,, but don't know how to use 'em, really.
I use emacs and run slackware and can fumble my way through bash scripts,
but I can't really write them or do lisp. I've taken basic basic and basic
C, but am barely literate in html. Sometimes it seems overwhelming, but I
persevere because it's more fun/challenging than video games, which bore me
to tears.
>
Well, that's my actual question, then. Is php really so bad I'm just
wasting my time? Or is it really the quickest way to blog functionality?
Would I be better served in the long run learning python, which claims to be
easy as pie to learn/program (still looks hard to me). I admit I'm no code
geek. But, I'm not completely brain dead, either, and I need something to
keep my geezer brain sparking. What say ye?
>
nb

Check out the Pylons blog tutorial. You will have a simple blog up and running
in less than 30 minutes and have a platform to extend it with as much
functionality as you want later on.

Larry Bates

Pylons blog tutorial:

http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/pylonscookbook/Making+a+Pylons+Blog

NC · Jun 27 '08, 04:25 PM

Re: php vs python

On May 21, 1:10 pm, notbob <not...@nothome .comwrote:

>
So, here's my delimna: I want to start a blog. Yeah, who doesn't.
Yet, I want learn the guts of it instead of just booting up some
wordwank or whatever.

Here's a simple computation to consider... WordPress' codebase is
approximately a megabyte of PHP code and megabyte of JavaScript code.
Assuming that the average line of that code is 50 characters long, you
are looking at 20,000 lines of code in PHP and as many in JavaScript.
Based on the notion that the average developer out there writes 100
lines a day, either you're in for a two-year project or your product
is going to have seriously reduced functionality compared to something
that's been freely available for years. What's your choice?

Then I run across that blog, Coding Horror, and start reading
articles like this:
>
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001119.html

You should read what some computer scientists write about SQL... :)

Now what?

Nothing. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You are free to form
your own.

I've taken basic basic and basic C, but am barely literate
in html.

Maybe that (and some JavaScript) is something to work on first before
delving into server-side programming?

Well, that's my actual question, then. Is php really so bad
I'm just wasting my time? Or is it really the quickest way
to blog functionality?

The quickest way to blog functionality is an account on a blogging
service... :)

Would I be better served in the long run learning python, which
claims to be easy as pie to learn/program (still looks hard to
me). I admit I'm no code geek. But, I'm not completely brain
dead, either, and I need something to keep my geezer brain
sparking. What say ye?

If the purpose is to keep the brain sparking, it doesn't matter what
you learn as long as you're enjoying the process. You might as well
take up Japanese while you're at it...

Cheers,
NC

**Nick Craig-Wood** · Jun 27 '08, 04:26 PM

Re: php vs python

Damon Getsman <dgetsman@amire hab.netwrote:

PHP has great support for accessing a MySQL database,

Actually I'd say PHP's mysql support is lacking a very important
feature. mysql_query() doesn't support parameters (or placeholders,
usually '?') which means that unless you use
mysql_real_esca pe_string() on all user input you are leaving yourself
wide open for SQL injection attacks.

With all the other non-PHP mysql programming I've done you use
parameters for all user input and you don't have to worry.

It is not a big deal, but I've had it drummed into me to always use
parameters for user input and I was really suprised PHP didn't have
them.

--
Nick Craig-Wood <nick@craig-wood.com-- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick

**notbob** · Jun 27 '08, 04:26 PM

Re: php vs python

On 2008-05-22, Larry Bates <larry.bates@we bsafe.com`wrote :

Check out the Pylons blog tutorial. You will have a simple blog up and running
in less than 30 minutes and have a platform to extend it with as much
functionality as you want later on.
>
Larry Bates
>
Pylons blog tutorial:
>
http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/pyl...+a+Pylons+Blog

Thnx, Larry. FYI: the above page doesn't exist:

"The page you were trying to reach does not exist. You may want to try a
search, or browse the site to find the page you were looking for."

.....but, there's a link to a pylons cookbook, which I will explore.

nb

**notbob** · Jun 27 '08, 04:26 PM

Re: php vs python

On 2008-05-21, Paul Rubin <httpwrote:

Knowing lots of languages is good for you. php is probably your
quickest route to getting a rudimentary web app running. Python
is a longer term project. Do both.

Good advice. Thank you.

nb

**Mike Driscoll** · Jun 27 '08, 04:26 PM

Re: php vs python

On May 21, 3:10 pm, notbob <not...@nothome .comwrote:

I'm not posting this just to initiate some religious flame war, though it's
the perfect subject to do so. No, I actaully want some serious advice about
these two languages and since I think usenet is the best arena to find it,
here ya' go.
>
So, here's my delimna: I want to start a blog. Yeah, who doesn't. Yet, I
want learn the guts of it instead of just booting up some wordwank or
whatever. I started to learn python, but heard php was easier or fasteror
more like shell scripting or... fill in the blank. Anyway, so I change over
to learning php. Then I run across that blog, Coding Horror, and start
reading articles like this:
>

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001119.html

>
Now what? Go back to python. Soldier on with php? What do I know? Not
much. I can setup mysql and apache,, but don't know how to use 'em, really.
I use emacs and run slackware and can fumble my way through bash scripts,
but I can't really write them or do lisp. I've taken basic basic and basic
C, but am barely literate in html. Sometimes it seems overwhelming, butI
persevere because it's more fun/challenging than video games, which bore me
to tears.
>
Well, that's my actual question, then. Is php really so bad I'm just
wasting my time? Or is it really the quickest way to blog functionality?
Would I be better served in the long run learning python, which claims to be
easy as pie to learn/program (still looks hard to me). I admit I'm no code
geek. But, I'm not completely brain dead, either, and I need something to
keep my geezer brain sparking. What say ye?
>
nb

TurboGears and Django are pretty cool Python web application
frameworks. I would recommend looking at them too.

Mike

php vs python

php vs python

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment