Does JavaScript represent its controls internally as Microsoft Windows controls,
or does it build them from scratch like Java?
or does it build them from scratch like Java?
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Re: Javascript and Microsoft Windows
JRS: In article <QGHDg.3811$uW1 .51@dukeread06> , dated Sun, 13 Aug 2006
10:37:22 remote, seen in news:comp.lang. javascript, Peter Olcott
<olcott@att.net posted :No.>Does JavaScript represent its controls internally as Microsoft Windows controls,
>or does it build them from scratch like Java?
Javascript runs on various operating systems, most not being MS Windows.
Javascript does not have controls, but allows access to controls built
by other parts of the system.
--
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<URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/TP/BP/Delphi/&c., FAQqy topics & links;
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Re: Javascript and Microsoft Windows
"Dr John Stockton" <jrs@merlyn.dem on.co.ukwrote in message
news:LtwuXSN2v3 3EFwAg@merlyn.d emon.co.uk...From what I remember, JavaScript can place a button on the screen. Is thisJRS: In article <QGHDg.3811$uW1 .51@dukeread06> , dated Sun, 13 Aug 2006
10:37:22 remote, seen in news:comp.lang. javascript, Peter Olcott
<olcott@att.net posted :>>>Does JavaScript represent its controls internally as Microsoft Windows
>>controls,
>>or does it build them from scratch like Java?
No.
>
Javascript runs on various operating systems, most not being MS Windows.
>
Javascript does not have controls, but allows access to controls built
by other parts of the system.
>
correct, and are you then saying that on the MS Windows platform, this would be
internally represented as an MS Windows Button?
--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon. co.uk Delphi 3 Turnpike 4 ©
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/TP/BP/Delphi/&c., FAQqy topics & links;
<URL:http://www.bancoems.co m/CompLangPascalD elphiMisc-MiniFAQ.htmclpd mFAQ;
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Re: Javascript and Microsoft Windows
Peter Olcott wrote:The difference between the core ECMAScript (JavaScript) language, its"Dr John Stockton" <jrs@merlyn.dem on.co.ukwrote in message
news:LtwuXSN2v3 3EFwAg@merlyn.d emon.co.uk...From what I remember, JavaScript can place a button on the screen. Is thisJRS: In article <QGHDg.3811$uW1 .51@dukeread06> , dated Sun, 13 Aug 2006
10:37:22 remote, seen in news:comp.lang. javascript, Peter Olcott
<olcott@att.net posted :No.>Does JavaScript represent its controls internally as Microsoft Windows
>controls,
>or does it build them from scratch like Java?
Javascript runs on various operating systems, most not being MS Windows.
Javascript does not have controls, but allows access to controls built
by other parts of the system.
built-in objects and those provided by a host environment are explained
here:
<URL: http://www.jibbering.com/faq/#FAQ2_6 >
"Internally "? The ECMAScript specification does not detail how thingscorrect, and are you then saying that on the MS Windows platform, this would be
internally represented as an MS Windows Button?
should be implemented, it just descibes the language itself.
"[ECMAScript] is a programming language that is used to manipulate,
customise, and automate the facilities of an existing system."
ECMAScript Language Specification section 4.
The host environment provides objects that have properties and methods,
JavaScript can be used to manipulate those objects to the extent
allowed by the host.
Most browsers provide a scriptable document object model (DOM) that
allows a script to create DOM objects (buttons, text inputs,
paragraphs, etc.) that can be manipulated using standard W3C properties
and methods as well as proprietary ones provided by the particular
browser.
The "button" that a host environment makes available in a DOM may be
different to the one that it provides to it's own development
environment. If I am running Firefox on Windows and use JavaScript to
create a button in a page, in what sense is that a "Windows button"?
If I use OmniWeb on Mac OS X and run the same script, will I get a "Mac
OS X button"?
Why does it matter? JavaScript use is not limited to browsers, nor
must it be used with a UI. All it needs is a scriptable host
environment.
--
Rob
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Re: Javascript and Microsoft Windows
"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:QGHDg.3811 $uW1.51@dukerea d06...Does JavaScript represent its controls internally as Microsoft
Windows controls, or does it build them from scratch like Java?
It depends on the browser and version you use. Some place a real Win32
window with button class on the page, others just place an image that
"looks" like the win32 button. Others just place a grey rectable with
text as a button.
You should not care, since in JS you can't access more than just "a
button" - no matter what the browser made of it.
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Re: Javascript and Microsoft Windows
"RobG" <rgqld@iinet.ne t.auwrote in message
news:1155533924 .633267.187680@ 75g2000cwc.goog legroups.com...It matters to my specific task at hand. I am estimating the possible ways that aPeter Olcott wrote:>>"Dr John Stockton" <jrs@merlyn.dem on.co.ukwrote in message
>news:LtwuXSN2v 33EFwAg@merlyn. demon.co.uk...>From what I remember, JavaScript can place a button on the screen. Is thisJRS: In article <QGHDg.3811$uW1 .51@dukeread06> , dated Sun, 13 Aug 2006
10:37:22 remote, seen in news:comp.lang. javascript, Peter Olcott
<olcott@att.net posted :
>>Does JavaScript represent its controls internally as Microsoft Windows
>>controls,
>>or does it build them from scratch like Java?
>
No.
>
Javascript runs on various operating systems, most not being MS Windows.
>
Javascript does not have controls, but allows access to controls built
by other parts of the system.
>
The difference between the core ECMAScript (JavaScript) language, its
built-in objects and those provided by a host environment are explained
here:
>
<URL: http://www.jibbering.com/faq/#FAQ2_6 >
>
>>>correct, and are you then saying that on the MS Windows platform, this would
>be
>internally represented as an MS Windows Button?
"Internally "? The ECMAScript specification does not detail how things
should be implemented, it just descibes the language itself.
>
"[ECMAScript] is a programming language that is used to manipulate,
customise, and automate the facilities of an existing system."
>
ECMAScript Language Specification section 4.
>
The host environment provides objects that have properties and methods,
JavaScript can be used to manipulate those objects to the extent
allowed by the host.
>
Most browsers provide a scriptable document object model (DOM) that
allows a script to create DOM objects (buttons, text inputs,
paragraphs, etc.) that can be manipulated using standard W3C properties
and methods as well as proprietary ones provided by the particular
browser.
>
The "button" that a host environment makes available in a DOM may be
different to the one that it provides to it's own development
environment. If I am running Firefox on Windows and use JavaScript to
create a button in a page, in what sense is that a "Windows button"?
If I use OmniWeb on Mac OS X and run the same script, will I get a "Mac
OS X button"?
>
Why does it matter? JavaScript use is not limited to browsers, nor
must it be used with a UI. All it needs is a scriptable host
environment.
competitor could achieve the same functionality as my patented invention without
violating my patent. For this reason I need to know the extent to which
graphical user interface controls are actually implemented in ways other than
using native Win32 objects on the Win32 platform. Java Swing was one specific
example of this.
>
>
--
Rob
>
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Re: Javascript and Microsoft Windows
"Gernot Frisch" <Me@Privacy.net wrote in message
news:4kamu8Fbau l6U1@individual .net...I care for reasons stated in my prior response. I need to know this.>
"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:QGHDg.3811 $uW1.51@dukerea d06...>>Does JavaScript represent its controls internally as Microsoft Windows
>controls, or does it build them from scratch like Java?
>
It depends on the browser and version you use. Some place a real Win32 window
with button class on the page, others just place an image that "looks" like
the win32 button. Others just place a grey rectable with text as a button.
You should not care, since in JS you can't access more than just "a button" -
no matter what the browser made of it.
>
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Re: Javascript and Microsoft Windows
Peter Olcott wrote:A patent (limited though they are anyway) applies to an *invention* and>
It matters to my specific task at hand. I am estimating the possible ways that a
competitor could achieve the same functionality as my patented invention without
violating my patent. For this reason I need to know the extent to which
graphical user interface controls are actually implemented in ways other than
using native Win32 objects on the Win32 platform. Java Swing was one specific
example of this.
>
not to an *implementation *. If you have invented something then the GUI
you use to do it is irrelevant. Frankly, you should remember that the
entire patent is mostly irrelevant anyway, since software cannot be
patented in most of the world and most countries will simply ignore your
patent anyway.
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Re: Javascript and Microsoft Windows
"The Magpie" <usenet@mpresto n.demon.co.ukwr ote in message
news:ebs6me$gs0 $2$830fa7a5@new s.demon.co.uk.. .The United States represents about half of the world software market, so thatPeter Olcott wrote:A patent (limited though they are anyway) applies to an *invention* and>>
>It matters to my specific task at hand. I am estimating the possible ways
>that a
>competitor could achieve the same functionality as my patented invention
>without
>violating my patent. For this reason I need to know the extent to which
>graphical user interface controls are actually implemented in ways other than
>using native Win32 objects on the Win32 platform. Java Swing was one specific
>example of this.
>>
not to an *implementation *. If you have invented something then the GUI
you use to do it is irrelevant. Frankly, you should remember that the
entire patent is mostly irrelevant anyway, since software cannot be
patented in most of the world and most countries will simply ignore your
patent anyway.
patent has good coverage, in half the world. The rest of the world must still
legally respect the copyright. My original question can not be rephrased. What I
really need to know is exactly how difficult it is for another program to
determine the exact location and current state of any graphical user interface
controls. Someone told me that this is pretty easy using Ajax.
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Re: Javascript and Microsoft Windows
Peter Olcott wrote:
<snip>That would be a pity as your original question did not make sense in... . My original question can not be rephrased.
javascript terms (javascript has no 'controls', instead relying on a
host to provide that type of facility). But It has been answered
anyway: browser hosts use Windows native input elements, their own
internal input elements and even Java Swing input elements (in the case
of IceBrowser at least).
What is 'another program'?What I really need to know is exactly how difficult it is for another
program
Javascript executing in browser environments can determine the exactto determine the exact location
pixel position (screen/ within the window and on the HTML page) of
elements being displayed in an HTML document that it is scripting
whenever the browser eposes sufficient information for that
determination to be possible (which is often, but not universally, the
case).
What do you consider the 'state' of a graphical user Interface control?and current state of any graphical user interface controls.
Brower hosts expose properties of controls/elements to scripting and
the values of those properties are normal candidates to be considered
the 'state' of the control/element.
AJAX is completely irrelevant to the issue.Someone told me that this is pretty easy using Ajax.
Richard.
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Re: Javascript and Microsoft Windows
"Richard Cornford" <Richard@litote s.demon.co.ukwr ote in message
news:1155650612 .498299.19170@p 79g2000cwp.goog legroups.com...If we assume that there is a JavaScript program running in the web-browser, thePeter Olcott wrote:
<snip>>>... . My original question can not be rephrased.
That would be a pity as your original question did not make sense in
javascript terms (javascript has no 'controls', instead relying on a
host to provide that type of facility). But It has been answered
anyway: browser hosts use Windows native input elements, their own
internal input elements and even Java Swing input elements (in the case
of IceBrowser at least).
>>>What I really need to know is exactly how difficult it is for another
>program
What is 'another program'?
other program is any program besides this program. In other words I need a way
to determine the exact location and current state of any graphical user
interface controls that are displayed in the web-browser, and this way must be
able to provide this information to a different program beside the one running
in the web-browser.
Is the checkbox currently checked or unchecked ("Current state" is a generic>>>to determine the exact location
Javascript executing in browser environments can determine the exact
pixel position (screen/ within the window and on the HTML page) of
elements being displayed in an HTML document that it is scripting
whenever the browser eposes sufficient information for that
determination to be possible (which is often, but not universally, the
case).
>>>and current state of any graphical user interface controls.
What do you consider the 'state' of a graphical user Interface control?
term of the art of computer science).
Great exactly how do they expose this, an API call?Brower hosts expose properties of controls/elements to scripting and
the values of those properties are normal candidates to be considered
the 'state' of the control/element.
The way that it was explained is that Ajax is a hodge podge conglomeration of>>>Someone told me that this is pretty easy using Ajax.
AJAX is completely irrelevant to the issue.
JavaScript, XML and some other things, and that these exposed properties are
exposed in an XML format.
>
Richard.
>
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Re: Javascript and Microsoft Windows
Peter Olcott wrote:The text above makes it obvious that you completely lack a basic level ofMy original question
can not be rephrased. What I really need to know is exactly how
difficult it is for another program to determine the exact location
and current state of any graphical user interface controls. Someone
told me that this is pretty easy using Ajax.
understanding required to even ask an intelligent question on the matter.
Equate it to: "I'm trying to figure out how easy it is to change the stapler
in my car using a tennis ball. I heard that it is easy using a cricket
ball." Your terms and words are so disconnected as to be meaningless.
Without a more detailed explaination of exactly what your patent is, what
kind of answer you are looking for, and how exactly it relates to
javascript, no one will be able to help you.
--
Matt Kruse
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Re: Javascript and Microsoft Windows
Maybe the answer is, yes, most people on this forum could write a
program (either in javascript or a compiled language like c++) that
could analyse the state of a browser that contains your application and
be able to determine what controls are present, their state, their
content, their position etc.
rgds
Sym
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Re: Javascript and Microsoft Windows
"Matt Kruse" <newsgroups@mat tkruse.comwrote in message
news:ebsmlq02as 5@news2.newsguy .com...I have almost no understanding of JavaScript.Peter Olcott wrote:>>My original question
>can not be rephrased. What I really need to know is exactly how
>difficult it is for another program to determine the exact location
>and current state of any graphical user interface controls. Someone
>told me that this is pretty easy using Ajax.
The text above makes it obvious that you completely lack a basic level of
understanding required to even ask an intelligent question on the matter.
>
Equate it to: "I'm trying to figure out how easy it is to change the stapler
in my car using a tennis ball. I heard that it is easy using a cricket ball."
Your terms and words are so disconnected as to be meaningless.
>
Without a more detailed explaination of exactly what your patent is, what kind
of answer you are looking for, and how exactly it relates to javascript, no
one will be able to help you.
>
--
Matt Kruse
>
>
This technology enables a truly universal GUI scripting language to be created.
I am attempting to estimate how difficult it would be to approximate the
functional benefits of my technology using alternative means.
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Re: Javascript and Microsoft Windows
Peter Olcott wrote:<snip>Richard Cornford wrote:>Peter Olcott wrote:OK.>>>>>What I really need to know is exactly how difficult it is for another
>>program
>What is 'another program'?
If we assume that there is a JavaScript program running in the web-browser,
Narrow it down, why don't you?the other program is any program besides this program.
Where a browser (combined with the context ) makes the determination ofIn other words I need a way to determine the exact location and
current state of any graphical user interface controls that are
displayed in the web-browser, and this way must be able to provide
this information to a different program beside the one running
in the web-browser.
the location of elements possible the results of such calculations may
be sent to a web server (which qualifies as your 'other program') in
various ways.
The W3C HTML DOM defined - HTMLInputElemen t - interface has a boolean ->>>>>to determine the exact location
>Javascript executing in browser environments can determine the exact
>pixel position (screen/ within the window and on the HTML page) of
>elements being displayed in an HTML document that it is scripting
>whenever the browser eposes sufficient information for that
>determinatio n to be possible (which is often, but not universally, the
>case).
>>>>>>and current state of any graphical user interface controls.
>What do you consider the 'state' of a graphical user Interface
>control?
Is the checkbox currently checked or unchecked
checked - proprety, that represents a formalization of a traditional
feature of representations of input elements exposed to scripting.
And yet when asked for clarification you are only actually interested("Current state" is a generic
term of the art of computer science).
in one aspect of the element's state.
As properties of the exposed representations of the elements.>>Brower hosts expose properties of controls/elements to scripting and
>the values of those properties are normal candidates to be considered
>the 'state' of the control/element.
Great exactly how do they expose this, an API call?
Yes, you can stop taking web development advice from whoever it was who>AJAX is completely irrelevant to the issue.Someone told me that this is pretty easy using Ajax.
The way that it was explained is that Ajax is a hodge podge conglomeration
of JavaScript, XML and some other things, and that these exposed
properties are exposed in an XML format.
said that.
Richard.
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