Mars Rover Controlled By Java

[Michael N. Christoff]

Java, the software developed by Sun Microsystems in the mid-1990s as a
universal operating system for Internet applications, gave NASA a low-cost
and easy-to-use option for running Spirit, the robotic rover that rolled
onto the planet's surface on Thursday in search of signs of water and life.

http://news.com.com/2100-1007_3-5142220.html?tag=nefd_top

l8r, Mike N. Christoff

[Ken Larson]

Re: Mars Rover Controlled By Java

Michael N. Christoff wrote:[color=blue]
> Java, the software developed by Sun Microsystems in the mid-1990s as a
> universal operating system for Internet applications, gave NASA a low-cost
> and easy-to-use option for running Spirit, the robotic rover that rolled
> onto the planet's surface on Thursday in search of signs of water and life.
>
> http://news.com.com/2100-1007_3-5142...l?tag=nefd_top
>
>
>
> l8r, Mike N. Christoff
>
>
>[/color]
The software on earth is in java, but is the software running on the
thing itself java?

[JavaJunkie]

Re: Mars Rover Controlled By Java

Thats' correct. Look at

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/01/16/space.mars.java.reut/index.html

Had it been running Microsoft .NET, the payload would be heavier due to more
memory needed to run Windows, the cost higher due to licensing fees NASA
would have to pay Bill Gates/Microsoft, and by now would be sending back the
"blue screen of death" instead of the martian surface!


"Ken Larson" <kendotlarson@m indspring.com> wrote in message
news:bu9t0o$ukg $00$1@news.t-online.com...[color=blue]
> Michael N. Christoff wrote:[color=green]
> > Java, the software developed by Sun Microsystems in the mid-1990s as a
> > universal operating system for Internet applications, gave NASA a[/color][/color]
low-cost[color=blue][color=green]
> > and easy-to-use option for running Spirit, the robotic rover that rolled
> > onto the planet's surface on Thursday in search of signs of water and[/color][/color]
life.[color=blue][color=green]
> >
> > http://news.com.com/2100-1007_3-5142...l?tag=nefd_top
> >
> >
> >
> > l8r, Mike N. Christoff
> >
> >
> >[/color]
> The software on earth is in java, but is the software running on the
> thing itself java?
>[/color]

[mitch]

Re: Mars Rover Controlled By Java

Read the article carefully. Java is being used to create 3D views of
terrain, and for command and control functions, ON EARTH. The last
paragraph correctly states that Wind River Systems made the embedded
software in the Spirit and Opportunity rovers. They run applications
created by JPL which execute on the VxWorks real-time operating system
(RTOS). I know this because a little of my work is in that RTOS - I
worked for Wind River until recently.

If you want more info on VxWorks, see the web site: www.windriver.com

The VxWorks RTOS also ran the Mars Lander and is in many other active
NASA probes like Stardust.

--mitch

JavaJunkie wrote:[color=blue]
> Thats' correct. Look at
> http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/0...eut/index.html
>
> Had it been running Microsoft .NET, the payload would be heavier due to more
> memory needed to run Windows, the cost higher due to licensing fees NASA
> would have to pay Bill Gates/Microsoft, and by now would be sending back the
> "blue screen of death" instead of the martian surface!
>
>
> "Ken Larson" <kendotlarson@m indspring.com> wrote in message
> news:bu9t0o$ukg $00$1@news.t-online.com...
>[color=green]
>>Michael N. Christoff wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Java, the software developed by Sun Microsystems in the mid-1990s as a
>>>universal operating system for Internet applications, gave NASA a[/color][/color]
> low-cost[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>and easy-to-use option for running Spirit, the robotic rover that rolled
>>>onto the planet's surface on Thursday in search of signs of water and[/color][/color]
> life.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>http://news.com.com/2100-1007_3-5142...l?tag=nefd_top
>>>
>>>l8r, Mike N. Christoff
>>>[/color]
>>
>>The software on earth is in java, but is the software running on the
>>thing itself java?[/color][/color]

[Dalibor Hrg]

Re: Mars Rover Controlled By Java

We can say that Java is most useful language on Mars today :))) You know,
the time of .NET is coming while Java has already took its place in
history. Nothing can change that, Java is simply great thing!

I was thinking, NASA could run some servers which will present Spirit's 3D
visualization. They could use Java3D in some applet so anybody interested
could navigate path that Spirit has traveled. It will be nice to see that.
How many cameras Spirit has anyway?

I was also thinking why all robots or searchers have wheels, I mean if they
are doing some research on land ok than, but it will be easier to use some
flying robot like small helicopter or something for making map. It will have
its platform with solar panels, it can go faster and I think travel lot more
distance. The platform can have wheels so it can move. The helicopter can be
useful to analyze around the platform and navigate platform. Let's say Sprit
and small robo-copter will be ideal combination. It's just suggestion.

At the end flying robots will depend on Mars's atmosphere, right?



"mitch" <realtime@-no-spam-acm.org> wrote in message
news:100hlnoe2l 8lp85@corp.supe rnews.com...[color=blue]
> Read the article carefully. Java is being used to create 3D views of
> terrain, and for command and control functions, ON EARTH. The last
> paragraph correctly states that Wind River Systems made the embedded
> software in the Spirit and Opportunity rovers. They run applications
> created by JPL which execute on the VxWorks real-time operating system
> (RTOS). I know this because a little of my work is in that RTOS - I
> worked for Wind River until recently.
>
> If you want more info on VxWorks, see the web site: www.windriver.com
>
> The VxWorks RTOS also ran the Mars Lander and is in many other active
> NASA probes like Stardust.
>
> --mitch
>
> JavaJunkie wrote:[color=green]
> > Thats' correct. Look at
> > http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/0...eut/index.html
> >
> > Had it been running Microsoft .NET, the payload would be heavier due to[/color][/color]
more[color=blue][color=green]
> > memory needed to run Windows, the cost higher due to licensing fees NASA
> > would have to pay Bill Gates/Microsoft, and by now would be sending back[/color][/color]
the[color=blue][color=green]
> > "blue screen of death" instead of the martian surface!
> >
> >
> > "Ken Larson" <kendotlarson@m indspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:bu9t0o$ukg $00$1@news.t-online.com...
> >[color=darkred]
> >>Michael N. Christoff wrote:
> >>
> >>>Java, the software developed by Sun Microsystems in the mid-1990s as a
> >>>universal operating system for Internet applications, gave NASA a[/color]
> > low-cost[color=darkred]
> >>>and easy-to-use option for running Spirit, the robotic rover that[/color][/color][/color]
rolled[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >>>onto the planet's surface on Thursday in search of signs of water and[/color]
> > life.
> >[color=darkred]
> >>>http://news.com.com/2100-1007_3-5142...l?tag=nefd_top
> >>>
> >>>l8r, Mike N. Christoff
> >>>
> >>
> >>The software on earth is in java, but is the software running on the
> >>thing itself java?[/color][/color]
>[/color]

[Dave Harris]

Re: Mars Rover Controlled By Java

dalibor.hrg@fer .hr (Dalibor Hrg) wrote (abridged):[color=blue]
> We can say that Java is most useful language on Mars today :)))[/color]

Err, I read him as saying Java is /not/ on Mars today.

-- Dave Harris, Nottingham, UK

[Theo]

Re: Mars Rover Controlled By Java

> Had it been running Microsoft .NET, the payload would be heavier due to more[color=blue]
> memory needed to run Windows, the cost higher due to licensing fees NASA
> would have to pay Bill Gates/Microsoft, and by now would be sending back the
> "blue screen of death" instead of the martian surface![/color]

You give it too much credit!

[Uncle Al]

Re: Mars Rover Controlled By Java

Dalibor Hrg wrote:
[snip]
[color=blue]
> I was also thinking why all robots or searchers have wheels, I mean if they
> are doing some research on land ok than, but it will be easier to use some
> flying robot like small helicopter or something for making map. It will have
> its platform with solar panels, it can go faster and I think travel lot more
> distance. The platform can have wheels so it can move. The helicopter can be
> useful to analyze around the platform and navigate platform. Let's say Sprit
> and small robo-copter will be ideal combination. It's just suggestion.[/color]
[snip]

Local atmospheric pressure is 7-10 torr. Earth sea level is 760
torr. How many planes do you know that cruise at 100,000 feet absent
any oxygen at all? Martian aircraft are a bad dream.

--
Uncle Al

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/

(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!

[Andrew Thompson]

Re: Mars Rover Controlled By Java

"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate. spam.net> wrote in message
news:400959F1.C A7EDB5A@hate.sp am.net...
| Dalibor Hrg wrote:
| [snip]
....
| > flying robot like small helicopter or something for making
map. It will have
| > its platform with solar panels, it can go faster and I think
travel lot more
| > distance.
....
| Local atmospheric pressure is 7-10 torr. Earth sea level is
760
| torr. How many planes do you know that cruise at 100,000 feet
absent
| any oxygen at all?

Why mention oxygen specifically?
The solar panels mentioned would have no
problem with the complete absence of oxygen.

...Though a battery powered chopper would
still be little more effective than one that
uses internal combustion.

And getting back to the original
thrust of this thread.

No, even if it were possible to make
a craft that could fly in Mars' atmosphere,
that would not be controlled by Java either
as it would violate Sun's license.

[ Why the heck was this cross-posted to
sci.physics? Some of the other groups are
borderline, but that one's off the wall.. ]

--
Andrew Thompson
* http://www.PhySci.org/ PhySci software suite
* http://www.1point1C.org/ 1.1C - Superluminal!
* http://www.AThompson.info/andrew/ personal site

[Jan Panteltje]

Re: Mars Rover Controlled By Java

On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Jan 2004 10:53:34 +0100) it happened "Dalibor Hrg"
<dalibor.hrg@fe r.hr> wrote in <bub0mv$c11$1@l s219.htnet.hr>:
[color=blue]
>We can say that Java is most useful language on Mars today :))) You know,
>the time of .NET is coming while Java has already took its place in
>history. Nothing can change that, Java is simply great thing![/color]
Java is the worst thing that could happen to computing since the
invention of the chuwing gum hard disk.
It is slow, slow, slow, slow, SLOW, and not to mention slow.
And on top of that it is slow.

[Jan Panteltje]

Re: Mars Rover Controlled By Java

On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:32 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)) it happened
brangdon@cix.co .uk (Dave Harris) wrote in
<memo.200401171 23225.1944E@bra ngdon.m>:
[color=blue]
>dalibor.hrg@fe r.hr (Dalibor Hrg) wrote (abridged):[color=green]
>> We can say that Java is most useful language on Mars today :)))[/color]
>
>Err, I read him as saying Java is /not/ on Mars today.[/color]
Correct, and the fact that we already have pics proves that.

[Manolis Christodoulou]

Re: Mars Rover Controlled By Java

> No, even if it were possible to make[color=blue]
> a craft that could fly in Mars' atmosphere,
> that would not be controlled by Java either
> as it would violate Sun's license.[/color]

Is the java License valid in other planets? :-)

[A. G. McDowell]

Re: Mars Rover Controlled By Java

In article <400959F1.CA7ED B5A@hate.spam.n et>, Uncle Al
<UncleAl0@hate. spam.net> writes[color=blue]
>Dalibor Hrg wrote:
>[snip]
>[color=green]
>> I was also thinking why all robots or searchers have wheels, I mean if they
>> are doing some research on land ok than, but it will be easier to use some
>> flying robot like small helicopter or something for making map. It will have
>> its platform with solar panels, it can go faster and I think travel lot more
>> distance. The platform can have wheels so it can move. The helicopter can be
>> useful to analyze around the platform and navigate platform. Let's say Sprit
>> and small robo-copter will be ideal combination. It's just suggestion.[/color]
>[snip]
>
>Local atmospheric pressure is 7-10 torr. Earth sea level is 760
>torr. How many planes do you know that cruise at 100,000 feet absent
>any oxygen at all? Martian aircraft are a bad dream.
>[/color]
That's as maybe, but ESA (European Space Agency) are dreaming of putting
Aerostats on Mars. I heard a talk from someone involved in this. See
also http://users.aber.ac.uk/dpb/aerobots.html. From what I remember,
they are balloons with fan motors. Much R&D will go into interpreting
the pictures they take well enough to only send back the interesting
bits. They illustrated the talk with a radio-controlled helium balloon
they have been using to learn the practicalities. Don't know the
programming language, but those involved have experience in Ada and
Matlab.

(cross-posting trimmed to only moderately insane).
--
A. G. McDowell

[Tony Hill]

Re: Mars Rover Controlled By Java

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:52:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtj e@yahoo.com> wrote:[color=blue]
>On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Jan 2004 10:53:34 +0100) it happened "Dalibor Hrg"
><dalibor.hrg@f er.hr> wrote in <bub0mv$c11$1@l s219.htnet.hr>:
>[color=green]
>>We can say that Java is most useful language on Mars today :))) You know,
>>the time of .NET is coming while Java has already took its place in
>>history. Nothing can change that, Java is simply great thing![/color]
>Java is the worst thing that could happen to computing since the
>invention of the chuwing gum hard disk.
>It is slow, slow, slow, slow, SLOW, and not to mention slow.
>And on top of that it is slow.[/color]

You know, believe it or not, Java isn't all that slow. Here are a
couple of tests comparing different languages for very simple
algorithms:

http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/index2.shtml

http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5602

While these simple tests might not hit on some of the weaknesses of a
JIT language like Java, they do tend to indicate that the performance
for most tests isn't all that bad.


That being said, the fact remains that Java is NOT being used on Mars
today. The Java stuff the original article talked about was all
earth-based stuff. In fact, it wasn't even the thing that was getting
the data from the Mars rover, simply the component that let people
view the data after it had been received.

The code on the rover wasn't specified, but it's most likely C/C++ as
that is the primary development language for Wind River VxWorks. I'm
not even sure if that OS has Java support, though even if it did it
would be a BAD choice. Java is NOT designed with real-time operating
systems in mind. It's a fine language for what it is, but it's not
really a suitable choice for this application. Ada might actually be
the best choice, as this is the sort of thing that language was
designed for, but C/C++ is a good alternative that is widely supported
and well known.

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

[chris]

Re: Mars Rover Controlled By Java

Andrew Thompson wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> No, even if it were possible to make
> a craft that could fly in Mars' atmosphere,
> that would not be controlled by Java either
> as it would violate Sun's license.[/color]

Irrelevant. If you really do see Java in space, it won't be made by Sun.

http://www.aicas.com/press/pr_12_en_24-Oct-03.html

[sci.physics deleted from X-postings]

--
Chris Gray chris@kiffer.eu net.be