Make Hyperlink Open a Minimized Window

[Brian Jorgenson]

On my web page, I have a few hyperlinks with target frame of _blank.
The hyperlink brings up a second window, but everytime I click on thie
hperlink, it keeps bringing up a new window and not defaulting the the
first active window. How do I make a hyperlink point to the active
window? I don not want the hyperlink to default to the same page. I do
want a second window but only a second window and not multiple pages.

[Stan Brown]

Re: Make Hyperlink Open a Minimized Window

In article <34ec3ea7.03082 61017.61836036@ posting.google. com> in
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, Brian Jorgenson
<bjorgenson@cha rter.net> wrote:[color=blue]
>On my web page, I have a few hyperlinks with target frame of _blank.
>The hyperlink brings up a second window, but everytime I click on thie
>hperlink, it keeps bringing up a new window and not defaulting the the
>first active window. How do I make a hyperlink point to the active
>window? I don not want the hyperlink to default to the same page. I do
>want a second window but only a second window and not multiple pages.[/color]

Fist, be aware that a _lot_ of people will regard opening up even
one extra window as an unfriendly act.

That said, don't use target="_blank" , which means "new window". Use
target="BrianJo rgenson" and then if such a window is already open it
will be reused.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA

http://OakRoadSystems.com/

HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

[John]

Re: Make Hyperlink Open a Minimized Window

In article <ngankvca44ilug dcurtau7i71fm1k 084pg@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
says...[color=blue]
> Brian Jorgenson wrote:
>[color=green]
> >I do
> >want a second window but only a second window and not multiple pages.[/color]
>
> Don't force your preferences on users, they are perfectly capable of
> opening a link in a new window if they want to.[/color]


Um, actually, many are not. Your average AOLer comes to mind.

John
_______________ _______________ _______________ __
C'est la vie! C'est la guerre! Say no more!

[David Dorward]

Re: Re: Make Hyperlink Open a Minimized Window

Jane Withnolastname wrote:
[color=blue]
> I read once (a long time ago, so maybe this advice is outdated) that
> when you provide a link to a web site that is not your own, you should
> have it open in another window so that the user will always HAVE to
> come back to your site.[/color]

Making people come back to your site whether they want to or not, sounds
like a sure fire way to annoy former potential customers.

--
David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/

[Headless]

Re: Make Hyperlink Open a Minimized Window

John wrote:
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>> >I do
>> >want a second window but only a second window and not multiple pages.[/color]
>>
>> Don't force your preferences on users, they are perfectly capable of
>> opening a link in a new window if they want to.[/color]
>
>Um, actually, many are not. Your average AOLer comes to mind.[/color]

Then the default works for them, it doesn't justify trying to force the
author's preference on users.


Headless

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Email and usenet filter list: http://www.headless.dna.ie/usenet.htm

[Stephen Poley]

Re: Make Hyperlink Open a Minimized Window

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 06:27:28 GMT, Jane Withnolastname
<JaneWithnolast nameNOSPAM@yaho o.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>I read once (a long time ago, so maybe this advice is outdated) that
>when you provide a link to a web site that is not your own, you should
>have it open in another window so that the user will always HAVE to
>come back to your site. As I said, this was a long time ago and maybe
>this is no longer an accepted (or acceptable) practice.[/color]

I'm not certain, but I suspect this of being simply a (widespread)
misunderstandin g. If one uses frames, one should not normally display
someone else's site in a frame - if it looks like you're passing off
their work as your own, it would be copyright infringement. You
therefore need to use a new (empty) frameset. This seems somewhere to
have become "new window".

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/

[Stan Brown]

Re: Make Hyperlink Open a Minimized Window

In article <gi8pkv0fcu129d 8r2ppqfk9nv3q12 g3khv@4ax.com> in
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, Stephen Poley
<sbpoley@xs4all .nl> wrote:[color=blue]
> If one uses frames, one should not normally display
>someone else's site in a frame - if it looks like you're passing off
>their work as your own, it would be copyright infringement. You
>therefore need to use a new (empty) frameset. This seems somewhere to[/color]

Just to clarify a bit what (I think) Stephen is saying --

_If_ you are using frames (generally a bad idea in itself, but
that's another story), _and_ you link to an outside site, _then_ the
link should have target="_top" so that you do not appear to be
claiming other people's work as your own by displaying it inside
your frameset.

I don't believe Stephen was suggesting target="_blank" as a way of
getting "a new (empty) frameset".

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA

http://OakRoadSystems.com/

HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

[Stephen Poley]

Re: Make Hyperlink Open a Minimized Window

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:49:49 -0400, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown @fastmail.fm> wrote:
[color=blue]
>In article <gi8pkv0fcu129d 8r2ppqfk9nv3q12 g3khv@4ax.com> in
>comp.infosyste ms.www.authoring.html, Stephen Poley
><sbpoley@xs4al l.nl> wrote:[color=green]
>> If one uses frames, one should not normally display
>>someone else's site in a frame - if it looks like you're passing off
>>their work as your own, it would be copyright infringement. You
>>therefore need to use a new (empty) frameset. This seems somewhere to[/color][/color]

[color=blue]
>Just to clarify a bit what (I think) Stephen is saying --
>
>_If_ you are using frames (generally a bad idea in itself, but
>that's another story), _and_ you link to an outside site, _then_ the
>link should have target="_top" so that you do not appear to be
>claiming other people's work as your own by displaying it inside
>your frameset.
>
>I don't believe Stephen was suggesting target="_blank" as a way of
>getting "a new (empty) frameset".[/color]

Yes, that's basically it. Somehow the target moved ...

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/

[Iris601]

Re: Make Hyperlink Open a Minimized Window

"EightNineThree " <eightninethree @REMOVEeightnin ethree.com> wrote in message news:<bii1om$t3 b$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.co m>...[color=blue]
> "Jane Withnolastname" <JaneWithnolast nameNOSPAM@yaho o.com> wrote in message
> news:g7kokv84ip 7ou2prna9u1v9fj 322bvq87k@4ax.c om...[color=green]
> > On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 20:13:05 -0400, Stan Brown
> > <the_stan_brown @fastmail.fm> wrote:
> >[color=darkred]
> > >In article <34ec3ea7.03082 61017.61836036@ posting.google. com> in
> > >comp.infosyste ms.www.authoring.html, Brian Jorgenson
> > ><bjorgenson@ch arter.net> wrote:
> > >>On my web page, I have a few hyperlinks with target frame of _blank.
> > >>The hyperlink brings up a second window, but everytime I click on thie
> > >>hperlink, it keeps bringing up a new window and not defaulting the the
> > >>first active window. How do I make a hyperlink point to the active
> > >>window? I don not want the hyperlink to default to the same page. I do
> > >>want a second window but only a second window and not multiple pages.
> > >
> > >Fist, be aware that a _lot_ of people will regard opening up even
> > >one extra window as an unfriendly act.[/color]
> >
> > I read once (a long time ago, so maybe this advice is outdated) that
> > when you provide a link to a web site that is not your own, you should
> > have it open in another window so that the user will always HAVE to
> > come back to your site. As I said, this was a long time ago and maybe
> > this is no longer an accepted (or acceptable) practice.[/color]
>
> People tend to think that they can use ' target="_blank" ' to keep people on
> their sites.
> In reality, it is nothing more than an annoyance. It is just another window
> to close.[/color]


Try this out:

http://htmlgoodies.earthweb.com/tutors/html_ref.html

[William Tasso]

Re: Make Hyperlink Open a Minimized Window

Els wrote:[color=blue]
> ...
> Yes, I know I can use the right click and open in a new
> window if I want to. But how many regular surfers know that?[/color]

no idea - it's not important. when it becomes an issue for them they will
find it. make it a secret and every teenager on the planet will know by
noon tomorow.

To misquote some piece of statistical nonsense "you're only 6 hand-shakes
away from every person on the planet" so start spreading the word - get that
sms-group thing going ;o)
[color=blue]
> I didn't until I started reading newsgroups about webdesign
> and html...[/color]

newsgroups are not the only path to enlightenment grasshopper.

--
William Tasso - http://WilliamTasso.com

[Brian Jorgenson]

Re: Make Hyperlink Open a Minimized Window

"EightNineThree " <eightninethree @REMOVEeightnin ethree.com> wrote in message news:<bii1om$t3 b$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.co m>...[color=blue]
> "Jane Withnolastname" <JaneWithnolast nameNOSPAM@yaho o.com> wrote in message
> news:g7kokv84ip 7ou2prna9u1v9fj 322bvq87k@4ax.c om...[color=green]
> > On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 20:13:05 -0400, Stan Brown
> > <the_stan_brown @fastmail.fm> wrote:
> >[color=darkred]
> > >In article <34ec3ea7.03082 61017.61836036@ posting.google. com> in
> > >comp.infosyste ms.www.authoring.html, Brian Jorgenson
> > ><bjorgenson@ch arter.net> wrote:
> > >>On my web page, I have a few hyperlinks with target frame of _blank.
> > >>The hyperlink brings up a second window, but everytime I click on thie
> > >>hperlink, it keeps bringing up a new window and not defaulting the the
> > >>first active window. How do I make a hyperlink point to the active
> > >>window? I don not want the hyperlink to default to the same page. I do
> > >>want a second window but only a second window and not multiple pages.
> > >
> > >Fist, be aware that a _lot_ of people will regard opening up even
> > >one extra window as an unfriendly act.[/color]
> >
> > I read once (a long time ago, so maybe this advice is outdated) that
> > when you provide a link to a web site that is not your own, you should
> > have it open in another window so that the user will always HAVE to
> > come back to your site. As I said, this was a long time ago and maybe
> > this is no longer an accepted (or acceptable) practice.[/color][/color]

This is an Intranet and every link is contained on one site[color=blue]
>
> People tend to think that they can use ' target="_blank" ' to keep people on
> their sites.
> In reality, it is nothing more than an annoyance. It is just another window
> to close.[/color]

[Brian Jorgenson]

Re: Make Hyperlink Open a Minimized Window

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown @fastmail.fm> wrote in message news:<MPG.19b5c 19e25b6d6cb98b2 03@news.odyssey .net>...[color=blue]
> In article <34ec3ea7.03082 61017.61836036@ posting.google. com> in
> comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, Brian Jorgenson
> <bjorgenson@cha rter.net> wrote:[color=green]
> >On my web page, I have a few hyperlinks with target frame of _blank.
> >The hyperlink brings up a second window, but everytime I click on thie
> >hperlink, it keeps bringing up a new window and not defaulting the the
> >first active window. How do I make a hyperlink point to the active
> >window? I don not want the hyperlink to default to the same page. I do
> >want a second window but only a second window and not multiple pages.[/color]
>
> Fist, be aware that a _lot_ of people will regard opening up even
> one extra window as an unfriendly act.
>
> That said, don't use target="_blank" , which means "new window". Use
> target="BrianJo rgenson" and then if such a window is already open it
> will be reused.[/color]


This is great target="web page" works but when I click on the
hyperlink again, it does not make the new page active. It still
remains minimized and does not become a full screen.

[Jonathan Brady]

Re: Make Hyperlink Open a Minimized Window

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:44:22 -0400, Headless wrote
(in message <ngankvca44ilug dcurtau7i71fm1k 084pg@4ax.com>) :
[color=blue]
> Brian Jorgenson wrote:
>[color=green]
>> I do
>> want a second window but only a second window and not multiple pages.[/color]
>
> Don't force your preferences on users, they are perfectly capable of
> opening a link in a new window if they want to.[/color]

Sometime there is a legitimate reason for opening a new window.

When a user requests additional information about a displayed item in
the main window, it would be wrong from the usability point of view to
wipe the original contents of the window and replace them with a snippet
of text clarifying something.

Some web applications require help pages like normal applications and to
keep the user clicking the back button after viewing the relevant help
information is not good. It would be much better to open a smaller
window containing the relevant information that the user can close when
they're done without losing the focus of the main window.

--
J Brady

[John]

Re: Make Hyperlink Open a Minimized Window

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:13:43 +0100
me@privacy.net a/k/a Headless disseminated:
[color=blue]
> John wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> >I do
> >> >want a second window but only a second window and not multiple pages.
> >>
> >> Don't force your preferences on users, they are perfectly capable of
> >> opening a link in a new window if they want to.[/color]
> >
> >Um, actually, many are not. Your average AOLer comes to mind.[/color]
>
> Then the default works for them, it doesn't justify trying to force the
> author's preference on users.[/color]

Every author forces his/her preferences on users to some extent. What
bothers me are authors who are either too clueless, too insensitive, too
lazy, or too egotistical to consider all the relevant factors that should
go into their design choices. I can belittle the author who says "hey,
I'm gonna have all the links open in a new window so they can't leave my
site". I can't belittle the author who says "given the subject matter and
purpose of the link within the context of the page, I think it makes
sense to have it open in a new window even though I know there are people
in CIWA who hate that". He/she may be right or wrong about whether most
visitors are appreciative or alienated, but he/she has made a thoughtful
(meaning "having thought about it") and informed decision. I can respect
that, although I may or may not revisit the site. Calling all popup (new)
windows "bad" is simplistic, but fundamentally it's a matter of opinion
or personal preference which should be acknowledged as such. And it's not
really a "content" issue relevant to Berners-Lee's vision of the WWW, but
rather a presentational issue, which technically is off topic for HTML.

Saying "the default works for them" is not the same as saying the default
is a preference. That'd be like saying somebody prefers IE when they
didn't know they had a choice. A "preference " is an intentional election
between known alternatives. The default may or may not be a preference.

I'm still thinking about your phrase "force the author's preference on
users" and whether it's analogous to saying I'm "forced" to watch a
particular channel on TV. Doesn't seem as bad as being forced to serve
time in jail or even being forced to drink decaf coffee. There's a quick
fix available to any offended users, even AOLers.

Here's my pet peeve of late, though: sites that re-size your browser to
suit their pixel-perfect layout and then leave it that way when you leave
the site! Now *those* people should be shot! My Firebird at home is, of
course, impervious to their nefarious machinations, but the IE at work...
And it's a government site that I use almost daily. Bleah! Government
sites, BTW, should be held to higher standards of accessibility and
usability than personal or commercial sites, IMHO, and there are laws to
that effect.

John
_______________ _______________ _______________ ____________
Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, and a good woman or
a bad woman. It depends on how much happiness you can
handle. - GEORGE BURNS

[Headless]

Re: Make Hyperlink Open a Minimized Window

John wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Then the default works for them, it doesn't justify trying to force the
>> author's preference on users.[/color]
>
>Calling all popup (new)
>windows "bad" is simplistic, but fundamentally it's a matter of opinion
>or personal preference which should be acknowledged as such.[/color]

The browser UI is something that belongs to a user, it should be left
alone by site authors. This is not a personal preference, it's a
fundamental principle.
[color=blue]
>And it's not
>really a "content" issue relevant to Berners-Lee's vision of the WWW, but
>rather a presentational issue, which technically is off topic for HTML.[/color]

It's a UI issue, not presentational.
[color=blue]
>Saying "the default works for them" is not the same as saying the default
>is a preference.[/color]

By trying to open new windows you are taking choice away from users.


Headless

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