Which database should I use?

**Cyril Gupta** · Jan 15 '06, 09:05 AM

Re: Which database should I use?

What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS Access
for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market my products
widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the particular
requirements that you have mentioned.

Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not get all
the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers.

Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through
workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution.

Regards
Cyril Gupta

**m.posseth** · Jan 15 '06, 10:15 AM

Re: Which database should I use?

I am with Cyril ,,

if you need the described functionality Access stands all alone out there ,
i have not yet found a good alternative ( although i would prefer a RDBMS
as i use databases of gigabytes in size ) however they all miss the security
thingy

about the multi user problem ,,,,, well you can tackle this with your
program design

regards

Michel Posseth [MCP]

"Cyril Gupta" <nomail@mail.co m> wrote in message
news:O3518EbGGH A.1192@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS Access
> for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market my products
> widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the particular
> requirements that you have mentioned.
>
> Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not get
> all the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers.
>
> Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through
> workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution.
>
> Regards
> Cyril Gupta
>[/color]

**Martin** · Jan 15 '06, 11:05 AM

Re: Which database should I use?

I agree, the Jet engine is a great little engine, and highly reliable. It's
only weak point is on security. Everyone with MS-Access can basically enter
and alter the database. That password protection thingy that they offer is a
bit on the weak side.

However, if you like free and reliable and with more security options, I'd
go for MSDE (SQL Server Desktop Edition, or I believe these days it's called
SQL Server 2005 Express). It is free and downloadable from www.microsoft.com

hth,
Martin

"m.posseth" <michelp@nohaus ystems.nl> wrote in message
news:%23E6%23Dr bGGHA.1192@TK2M SFTNGP11.phx.gb l...[color=blue]
>I am with Cyril ,,
>
>
> if you need the described functionality Access stands all alone out there
> , i have not yet found a good alternative ( although i would prefer a
> RDBMS as i use databases of gigabytes in size ) however they all miss the
> security thingy
>
>
> about the multi user problem ,,,,, well you can tackle this with your
> program design
>
>
> regards
>
> Michel Posseth [MCP]
>
>
> "Cyril Gupta" <nomail@mail.co m> wrote in message
> news:O3518EbGGH A.1192@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS
>> Access for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market my
>> products widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the
>> particular requirements that you have mentioned.
>>
>> Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not get
>> all the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers.
>>
>> Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through
>> workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution.
>>
>> Regards
>> Cyril Gupta
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

**m.posseth** · Jan 15 '06, 11:16 AM

Re: Which database should I use?

Ahum sorry but you are wrong :-)

I wish MSDE or SQL Express could even come close to the security that
Access has with the combination Workgroup information file
[color=blue]
>Everyone with MS-Access can basically enter
> and alter the database. That password protection thingy that they offer is
> a bit on the weak side.[/color]

That is exactly what is possible with SQL server and for a fact with all
other RDBMS systems but not with Access in combination with a Workgroup
information file ( this is not the same as the easy to break password
protected database )

if you ship a sql mdf file everyone with a Enterprise Manager or SMS
installed and administrator rights on his system can access the database

if you want to take up the challenge i can send you a workgroup protected
database of mine and you can see for yourself :-)

regards

Michel Posseth [MCP]

"Martin" <x@y.com> wrote in message
news:Ot9eUHcGGH A.3856@TK2MSFTN GP12.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>I agree, the Jet engine is a great little engine, and highly reliable. It's
>only weak point is on security. Everyone with MS-Access can basically enter
>and alter the database. That password protection thingy that they offer is
>a bit on the weak side.
>
> However, if you like free and reliable and with more security options, I'd
> go for MSDE (SQL Server Desktop Edition, or I believe these days it's
> called SQL Server 2005 Express). It is free and downloadable from
> www.microsoft.com
>
> hth,
> Martin
>
>
> "m.posseth" <michelp@nohaus ystems.nl> wrote in message
> news:%23E6%23Dr bGGHA.1192@TK2M SFTNGP11.phx.gb l...[color=green]
>>I am with Cyril ,,
>>
>>
>> if you need the described functionality Access stands all alone out there
>> , i have not yet found a good alternative ( although i would prefer a
>> RDBMS as i use databases of gigabytes in size ) however they all miss the
>> security thingy
>>
>>
>> about the multi user problem ,,,,, well you can tackle this with your
>> program design
>>
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Michel Posseth [MCP]
>>
>>
>> "Cyril Gupta" <nomail@mail.co m> wrote in message
>> news:O3518EbGGH A.1192@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS
>>> Access for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market my
>>> products widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the
>>> particular requirements that you have mentioned.
>>>
>>> Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not get
>>> all the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers.
>>>
>>> Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through
>>> workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Cyril Gupta
>>>[/color]
>>
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

**Jim** · Jan 15 '06, 11:55 AM

Re: Which database should I use?

This isn't an issue if you encypt the data a you should.

"m.posseth" <michelp@nohaus ystems.nl> wrote in message
news:O8IxGQcGGH A.1180@TK2MSFTN GP09.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>
> Ahum sorry but you are wrong :-)
>
> I wish MSDE or SQL Express could even come close to the security that
> Access has with the combination Workgroup information file
>[color=green]
> >Everyone with MS-Access can basically enter
>> and alter the database. That password protection thingy that they offer
>> is a bit on the weak side.[/color]
>
> That is exactly what is possible with SQL server and for a fact with all
> other RDBMS systems but not with Access in combination with a Workgroup
> information file ( this is not the same as the easy to break password
> protected database )
>
> if you ship a sql mdf file everyone with a Enterprise Manager or SMS
> installed and administrator rights on his system can access the database
>
>
> if you want to take up the challenge i can send you a workgroup protected
> database of mine and you can see for yourself :-)
>
> regards
>
> Michel Posseth [MCP]
>
>
>
>
>
> "Martin" <x@y.com> wrote in message
> news:Ot9eUHcGGH A.3856@TK2MSFTN GP12.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>>I agree, the Jet engine is a great little engine, and highly reliable.
>>It's only weak point is on security. Everyone with MS-Access can basically
>>enter and alter the database. That password protection thingy that they
>>offer is a bit on the weak side.
>>
>> However, if you like free and reliable and with more security options,
>> I'd go for MSDE (SQL Server Desktop Edition, or I believe these days it's
>> called SQL Server 2005 Express). It is free and downloadable from
>> www.microsoft.com
>>
>> hth,
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> "m.posseth" <michelp@nohaus ystems.nl> wrote in message
>> news:%23E6%23Dr bGGHA.1192@TK2M SFTNGP11.phx.gb l...[color=darkred]
>>>I am with Cyril ,,
>>>
>>>
>>> if you need the described functionality Access stands all alone out
>>> there , i have not yet found a good alternative ( although i would
>>> prefer a RDBMS as i use databases of gigabytes in size ) however they
>>> all miss the security thingy
>>>
>>>
>>> about the multi user problem ,,,,, well you can tackle this with your
>>> program design
>>>
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Michel Posseth [MCP]
>>>
>>>
>>> "Cyril Gupta" <nomail@mail.co m> wrote in message
>>> news:O3518EbGGH A.1192@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl...
>>>> What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS
>>>> Access for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market my
>>>> products widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the
>>>> particular requirements that you have mentioned.
>>>>
>>>> Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not
>>>> get all the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers.
>>>>
>>>> Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through
>>>> workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Cyril Gupta
>>>>
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

**HKSHK** · Jan 15 '06, 12:15 PM

Re: Which database should I use?

Hi Michel,

Do you have any example on how to do that?

Thanks in advance,

HKSHK

**m.posseth** · Jan 15 '06, 12:35 PM

Re: Which database should I use?

Huh ???

As you should ??? you know what should they should have taken care of
programmers like me who have valuable data
The aproach of all RDMS systems is that the user that owns the system is
also the owner of the data wich is not always the case

If i should implement encryption in my database ( as it is the standard
acording to your comment ) why isn`t this feature there ??? my companny
pays a lot for SQL server ( 2000 enterprise and 2005 ) and even on this
versions it isn`t even there , if i SHOULD do that the tools SHOULD be
there and they are not , in ACCESS they are there and i can do it even
better without anny noticable performance lost ( my proggy`s run on win 98
on a PII 300 MHZ without problems )

The only way i can protect my sql data is by implementing custom encryption
,,,, and even this is more suitable for storing for instance credit card
info etc etc what if you have the situation where you query on hughe
datasets ? of protected data do you have a solution for this to ??

please tell me i am curious as i hear a lot of bla from people that can`t
inmagine the problem

to give you an idea :

Yes i know SQL server verry well ( i use it daily in a corporate
environment )
Yes i wish i could use sql server in my deployable apps
look at this website http://www.bildelskatalogen.se/

this is one of the products i make , now inmagine that the customers pay for
the data relations and NOT for the program we have people in our company
that mine this data from OE manufacturers
the data is the value of the product in the web application everything is
fine as it is running on our companny`s SQL server

We also ship catalogue programs to end users ( currently written in VB6 icw
ACCESS with a workgroup file ) we are now bussy writing a BLS in VS.net
2005 we investigated the possibility`s and untill so far nothing beats
Access in terms of performance in combination with security ( and then i
did not even mention it`s small footprint and the ease of deployability
wich i would trade for more performance )

regards

Michel Posseth [MCP]

"Jim" <reply@groups.p lease> wrote in message
news:6Cqyf.6940 8$Lb1.8729@bign ews3.bellsouth. net...[color=blue]
> This isn't an issue if you encypt the data a you should.
>
> "m.posseth" <michelp@nohaus ystems.nl> wrote in message
> news:O8IxGQcGGH A.1180@TK2MSFTN GP09.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>>
>> Ahum sorry but you are wrong :-)
>>
>> I wish MSDE or SQL Express could even come close to the security that
>> Access has with the combination Workgroup information file
>>[color=darkred]
>> >Everyone with MS-Access can basically enter
>>> and alter the database. That password protection thingy that they offer
>>> is a bit on the weak side.[/color]
>>
>> That is exactly what is possible with SQL server and for a fact with all
>> other RDBMS systems but not with Access in combination with a Workgroup
>> information file ( this is not the same as the easy to break password
>> protected database )
>>
>> if you ship a sql mdf file everyone with a Enterprise Manager or SMS
>> installed and administrator rights on his system can access the database
>>
>>
>> if you want to take up the challenge i can send you a workgroup protected
>> database of mine and you can see for yourself :-)
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Michel Posseth [MCP]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Martin" <x@y.com> wrote in message
>> news:Ot9eUHcGGH A.3856@TK2MSFTN GP12.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>>I agree, the Jet engine is a great little engine, and highly reliable.
>>>It's only weak point is on security. Everyone with MS-Access can
>>>basically enter and alter the database. That password protection thingy
>>>that they offer is a bit on the weak side.
>>>
>>> However, if you like free and reliable and with more security options,
>>> I'd go for MSDE (SQL Server Desktop Edition, or I believe these days
>>> it's called SQL Server 2005 Express). It is free and downloadable from
>>> www.microsoft.com
>>>
>>> hth,
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>> "m.posseth" <michelp@nohaus ystems.nl> wrote in message
>>> news:%23E6%23Dr bGGHA.1192@TK2M SFTNGP11.phx.gb l...
>>>>I am with Cyril ,,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> if you need the described functionality Access stands all alone out
>>>> there , i have not yet found a good alternative ( although i would
>>>> prefer a RDBMS as i use databases of gigabytes in size ) however they
>>>> all miss the security thingy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> about the multi user problem ,,,,, well you can tackle this with your
>>>> program design
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>>
>>>> Michel Posseth [MCP]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Cyril Gupta" <nomail@mail.co m> wrote in message
>>>> news:O3518EbGGH A.1192@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl...
>>>>> What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS
>>>>> Access for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market
>>>>> my products widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the
>>>>> particular requirements that you have mentioned.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not
>>>>> get all the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through
>>>>> workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Cyril Gupta
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

**m.posseth** · Jan 15 '06, 12:55 PM

Re: Which database should I use?

Hello

here are some links to get you started

Your request has been blocked. This could be due to several reasons.

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/assistance/HA010546941033.aspx

this one is verry good step by step with pictures ( also note the links that
show how to implement user level security )
http://www.databasedev.co.uk/access_security.html

the big trick is to create a new Administrator user and throw out the
default accounts

now nobody can access the database unless they know what is the workgroup
file ( i rename it ) and the username and password
so the security is in multiple layers ( knowing that the DB is secured by
another workgroup , discovering what is the workgroup file , and finding the
username and password )

oh by the way

if you google on the subject you will find several people claiming they can
extract the password form the workgroup file well we have also implemented
database encryption in the workgroup file ( with a key you must assign
yourself )

we bought several of these tools and they all failed ( we did not get our
monney back ;-)

if you need more help ,,, for instance how to connect to it from code etc
etc feel free to ask

regards

Michel Posseth [MCP]

"HKSHK" <hkshk@gmx.ne t> wrote in message
news:1137326642 .843629.65900@g 44g2000cwa.goog legroups.com...[color=blue]
> Hi Michel,
>
> Do you have any example on how to do that?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> HKSHK
>[/color]

**Dennis** · Jan 15 '06, 01:45 PM

Re: Which database should I use?

I was interested in your comment about "workaround s" for Access Reliability.
I assume you are referring to simultaneous access to a record. Do you have
any suggestions for what "workaround s" are needed. I was assuming that users
had simultaneious read access and that when writing to the database that the
write would wait for anyother writes to finish. Looks like I may have been
wrong.
--
Dennis in Houston

"Cyril Gupta" wrote:
[color=blue]
> What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS Access
> for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market my products
> widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the particular
> requirements that you have mentioned.
>
> Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not get all
> the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers.
>
> Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through
> workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution.
>
> Regards
> Cyril Gupta
>
>
>[/color]

**Cyril Gupta** · Jan 15 '06, 02:05 PM

Re: Which database should I use?

Hmm... No, you aren't wrong Dennis. You can actually lock the database as
per your requirement if you want. If you explain your problem specifically I
might be in a position to give you possible leads to the solution.

Regards
Cyril Gupta

**m.posseth** · Jan 15 '06, 02:35 PM

Re: Which database should I use?

Dennis

Split the database when you come near the 2 GB border ( i do this around 600
MB ) to call one
[color=blue]
> Looks like I may have been
> wrong.[/color]

You are not wrong these are all things that you can set with the connection
and recordset object ( VB6 )

i prefer to use firehose cursors to read and optimistic locking for writing
the data

you can simulate this behavior in .Net

regards

Michel in Rotterdam :-)

"Dennis" <Dennis@discuss ions.microsoft. com> wrote in message
news:0D871539-1FBC-4286-B301-250E8FC6151D@mi crosoft.com...[color=blue]
>I was interested in your comment about "workaround s" for Access
>Reliability.
> I assume you are referring to simultaneous access to a record. Do you
> have
> any suggestions for what "workaround s" are needed. I was assuming that
> users
> had simultaneious read access and that when writing to the database that
> the
> write would wait for anyother writes to finish. Looks like I may have
> been
> wrong.
> --
> Dennis in Houston
>
>
> "Cyril Gupta" wrote:
>[color=green]
>> What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS
>> Access
>> for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market my products
>> widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the particular
>> requirements that you have mentioned.
>>
>> Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not get
>> all
>> the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers.
>>
>> Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through
>> workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution.
>>
>> Regards
>> Cyril Gupta
>>
>>
>>[/color][/color]

**John Dann** · Jan 15 '06, 03:05 PM

Re: Which database should I use?

On 15 Jan 2006 00:28:26 -0800, "HKSHK" <hkshk@gmx.ne t> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Do you have any ideas?
>[/color]

VistaDB - The No-Hassle Embedded Database for .NET

https://www.vistadb.com

A SQL Server-compatible embedded database small enough to fit on your phone, VistaDB is the easiest to deploy embedded database for .NET, Xamarin, and Mono a...

Not free and it depends on your definition of low-cost, but looks good
compared to other high-cost solutions.

JGD

**m.posseth** · Jan 15 '06, 03:25 PM

Re: Which database should I use?

did some comparisation tests and guess ,,, although they claim they are
faster as Access turned out in my tests that they were actually much slower

i have tried them all SQLlite , vistadb etc etc etc all claim to be better
but can`t make the claim for reall

regards

Michel Posseth [MCP]

"John Dann" <news@prodata.c o.uk> wrote in message
news:u4oks194l5 n2jp38aptll5eib pjb3r0c6u@4ax.c om...[color=blue]
> On 15 Jan 2006 00:28:26 -0800, "HKSHK" <hkshk@gmx.ne t> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Do you have any ideas?
>>[/color]
>
> www.vistadb.com
>
> Not free and it depends on your definition of low-cost, but looks good
> compared to other high-cost solutions.
>
> JGD[/color]

**Dennis** · Jan 15 '06, 06:15 PM

Re: Which database should I use?

Thanks for answers. I"m not sure what the "optimistic " locking is nor how to
split a database. I'll do some "googling" and see if I can find out what
it's all about. What I really wanted to do was put an access database on the
internet so more than one user can read from it simultaneously and also write
without errors due to someone else simultaneously read or writing.
--
Dennis in Houston

"m.posseth" wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> Dennis
>
>
> Split the database when you come near the 2 GB border ( i do this around 600
> MB ) to call one
>[color=green]
> > Looks like I may have been
> > wrong.[/color]
>
>
> You are not wrong these are all things that you can set with the connection
> and recordset object ( VB6 )
>
> i prefer to use firehose cursors to read and optimistic locking for writing
> the data
>
> you can simulate this behavior in .Net
>
>
> regards
>
> Michel in Rotterdam :-)
>
>
> "Dennis" <Dennis@discuss ions.microsoft. com> wrote in message
> news:0D871539-1FBC-4286-B301-250E8FC6151D@mi crosoft.com...[color=green]
> >I was interested in your comment about "workaround s" for Access
> >Reliability.
> > I assume you are referring to simultaneous access to a record. Do you
> > have
> > any suggestions for what "workaround s" are needed. I was assuming that
> > users
> > had simultaneious read access and that when writing to the database that
> > the
> > write would wait for anyother writes to finish. Looks like I may have
> > been
> > wrong.
> > --
> > Dennis in Houston
> >
> >
> > "Cyril Gupta" wrote:
> >[color=darkred]
> >> What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS
> >> Access
> >> for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market my products
> >> widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the particular
> >> requirements that you have mentioned.
> >>
> >> Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not get
> >> all
> >> the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers.
> >>
> >> Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through
> >> workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Cyril Gupta
> >>
> >>
> >>[/color][/color]
>
>
>[/color]

Which database should I use?

Which database should I use?

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment