Re: Guido at Google
On Thu, 2005-12-22 at 08:18, bonono@gmail.co m wrote:[color=blue]
> Cameron Laird wrote:[color=green]
> > In article <1135239900.225 499.263300@g14g 2000cwa.googleg roups.com>,
> > <bonono@gmail.c om> wrote:
> > .
> > .
> > .[color=darkred]
> > >Well, this may be the CPython way of open source but I don't know if
> > >that is "Open source" in general. Another way is that if someone(or
> > >group) don't like the current state of a project, they fork. I don't
> > >know if that is possible in the context of python, and programming
> > >language in general. Can it still be called python ?[/color]
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > While I don't understand the question, it might be pertinent to
> > observe that, among open-source development projects, Python is
> > unusual for the *large* number of "forks" or alternative imple-
> > mentations it has supported through the years <URL:
> > http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.lang....varieties.html >.[/color]
> The question is, can anyone just fork a new one using the python name,
> as part of the project, without the permission from the foundation ?
> Say for example, anyone want to implement java needs permission from
> Sun(or is it javasoft), if I rememeber correctly. Therefore, the only
> way to make change to java the language is to convince Sun, very
> similar to the model of Python. But many open source project is not
> using this model.[/color]
Most of your question can be answered by reading the license. Section 3
of version 2 of the PSF license states:
"""
3. In the event Licensee prepares a derivative work that is based on
or incorporates Python or any part thereof, and wants to make
the derivative work available to others as provided herein, then
Licensee hereby agrees to include in any such work a brief summary of
the changes made to Python.
"""
In other words, you can change Python to your liking and distribute the
changed version, as long as you tell people how it differs from Python.
Since the changed version is different from Python, calling it Python
would be a) boneheaded and b) as Steve Holden points out, a trademark
violation. Note that section 7 states that "This License Agreement does
not grant permission to use PSF trademarks or trade name in a trademark
sense to endorse or promote products or services of Licensee, or any
third party" and the Python name is a trademark of the PSF.
So, if there is something you don't like about Python, you have two
choices:
1) Seek consensus with the Python community and have your changes
accepted into the "official" Python version, or
2) Fork Python into something else with a different name. If the
different name contains 'Python', you'll probably have to ask PSF for
permission. In any case, as outlined above, you have have to state that
the fork is based on Python and summarize how it differs from Python.
Hope this clears things up,
Carsten.
On Thu, 2005-12-22 at 08:18, bonono@gmail.co m wrote:[color=blue]
> Cameron Laird wrote:[color=green]
> > In article <1135239900.225 499.263300@g14g 2000cwa.googleg roups.com>,
> > <bonono@gmail.c om> wrote:
> > .
> > .
> > .[color=darkred]
> > >Well, this may be the CPython way of open source but I don't know if
> > >that is "Open source" in general. Another way is that if someone(or
> > >group) don't like the current state of a project, they fork. I don't
> > >know if that is possible in the context of python, and programming
> > >language in general. Can it still be called python ?[/color]
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > While I don't understand the question, it might be pertinent to
> > observe that, among open-source development projects, Python is
> > unusual for the *large* number of "forks" or alternative imple-
> > mentations it has supported through the years <URL:
> > http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.lang....varieties.html >.[/color]
> The question is, can anyone just fork a new one using the python name,
> as part of the project, without the permission from the foundation ?
> Say for example, anyone want to implement java needs permission from
> Sun(or is it javasoft), if I rememeber correctly. Therefore, the only
> way to make change to java the language is to convince Sun, very
> similar to the model of Python. But many open source project is not
> using this model.[/color]
Most of your question can be answered by reading the license. Section 3
of version 2 of the PSF license states:
"""
3. In the event Licensee prepares a derivative work that is based on
or incorporates Python or any part thereof, and wants to make
the derivative work available to others as provided herein, then
Licensee hereby agrees to include in any such work a brief summary of
the changes made to Python.
"""
In other words, you can change Python to your liking and distribute the
changed version, as long as you tell people how it differs from Python.
Since the changed version is different from Python, calling it Python
would be a) boneheaded and b) as Steve Holden points out, a trademark
violation. Note that section 7 states that "This License Agreement does
not grant permission to use PSF trademarks or trade name in a trademark
sense to endorse or promote products or services of Licensee, or any
third party" and the Python name is a trademark of the PSF.
So, if there is something you don't like about Python, you have two
choices:
1) Seek consensus with the Python community and have your changes
accepted into the "official" Python version, or
2) Fork Python into something else with a different name. If the
different name contains 'Python', you'll probably have to ask PSF for
permission. In any case, as outlined above, you have have to state that
the fork is based on Python and summarize how it differs from Python.
Hope this clears things up,
Carsten.
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