Guido at Google

[Steve Holden]

Re: Guido at Google

nnorwitz@gmail. com wrote:[color=blue]
> Nicola Musatti wrote:
>[color=green]
>>By the way, I hear that you've become collegues also with Matt Austern,
>>formerly of Apple, and Danny Thorpe, formerly of Borland. I guess we
>>mere mortals don't stand a chance of being hired, but if the trend
>>continues there are going to be a lot of very interesting positions
>>opening everywhere else :-)[/color]
>
>
> Ha! I'm still trying to figure out who let me in. Everyone has some
> chance.
> Of course, I'm going on vacation next week and there was talk
> about a one-way ticket to Mexico.
>
> The real question is will they let me *back* in? :-)
>[/color]
I would be careful coming back across the border. I heard that the PSU

[EP]

Re: Guido at Google

bonono@gmail.co m wrote:
[color=blue]
>Anand wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>This is very good news. I wish Guido all the best!
>>
>>I wonder if this has got to do something with Microsoft developing
>>IronPython. Incidentellay it is reaching a 1.0 release pretty soon.
>>Perhaps Google has some cards up their sleeve. What other best way to
>>counter this than to hire the big fish himself ? :-)
>>
>>[/color]
>I wonder how high a particular programming language is in the prioirty
>of either organisations of such size ?
>
>
>[/color]

I do not know how badly Google needs a particular programming language
Python, but in that I believe the IT world at large could really use
Python, more Python, both as it exists and as it might evolve to be, I
would like to mention that Python, the language, could really use a high
profile industry champion.

Java => Sun
..Net => Microsoft
C# => Microsoft
Linux => too many big name IT companies to mention
Python => ________ ?


These kind of alliances may not improve the bytecode, but they sure
influence what programmers get to use day in and day out.

Congrats, Guido. Thanks for Python and may your future at Google be bright.


EP

[bonono@gmail.com]

Re: Guido at Google


Alex Martelli wrote:[color=blue]
> In the general case, it's pretty general;-). In the specific case of
> your "question" above quoted (interpreting the mis-spelled words and
> grammatical errors to the best of my modest ability), reading it as
> rhetorical means it's in fact intended as a statement (that a particular
> programming language cannot have high priority for organizations of size
> similar to MS's and Google's), and such a statement is incorrect (as I
> tried showing with several examples displaying "particular programming
> languages" having high strategical priorities for organizations with
> many thousands of employees, including one with more personnel [larger
> size] than Google's).[/color]
So exactly how high is python in Google's priority list ? Or in other
words, if python is in a stand still as it is now, what would be the
impact to Google ? As an outsider, I can only base on public info, like
a press release mentioning Guido has been hired.
[color=blue]
>
> An example of rhetorical question:
> "Do you really think that a specific technology [including a software
> one, such as a programming language] cannot have, in certain cases,
> *extremely high* strategic priority for organizations with thousands of
> employees?"
>
> In this example, the question is phrased to hint at how silly such an
> opinion would be, and therefore imply that you can't really think that
> (and must have ulterior motives for so suggesting, etc etc). Rhetorical
> questions are a perfectly legitimate style of writing (although, like
> all stylistic embellishments, they can be overused, and can be made much
> less effective if murkily or fuzzily phrased), of course.[/color]
Surprisingly, I don't see this as an rhetorical question at all. It is
quite netural to me as a "I don't agree with you" without indication of
silliness, just a style of writing.

[Ray]

Re: Guido at Google

EP wrote:[color=blue]
> Congrats, Guido. Thanks for Python and may your future at Google be bright.[/color]

Congrats to BDFL too--may the future of his and his creation be bright
indeed!

Ray
[color=blue]
>
>
> EP[/color]

[Fuzzyman]

Re: Guido at Google


Greg Stein wrote:[color=blue]
> Yeah... we recognize that we could certainly open-source more of our
> software. While we've released some stuff
> (code.google.co m/projects.html), there is a LOT more that we want to
> do. Getting engineers' 20% time to do that has been difficult.
> Thankfully, we know how to fix that and got the okay/headcount to make
> it happen. (IOW, it isn't a lack of desire, but making it happen)
>
> But even if we haven't been able to open-source as much code as we'd
> like, we *have* been trying to be very supportive of the community.
> Between the Summer of Code and direct cash contributions, we've
> provided a LOT of support to a large number of open source
> organizations.
>
> And we have a couple other ideas on how to help the open source
> community. We're working on it!
>[/color]

I salute your contribution to the world of open source in general.

I'm hopeful that the employing Guido will lead to a more tangible bias
in favour of Python ;-)

All the best,

Fuzzyman

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml

[color=blue]
> Cheers,
> -g[/color]

[Peter Hansen]

Re: Guido at Google

bonono@gmail.co m wrote:[color=blue]
> So exactly how high is python in Google's priority list ? Or in other
> words, if python is in a stand still as it is now, what would be the
> impact to Google ?[/color]

Since when is Python in a standstill?

By all accounts I've seen, and personal observation over the last five
years, it's use is growing rapidly, and the language itself (including
in that word the libraries, tools, etc.) is continuing to evolve and
improve.

-Peter

[Cameron Laird]

Re: Guido at Google

In article <1135239900.225 499.263300@g14g 2000cwa.googleg roups.com>,
<bonono@gmail.c om> wrote:

[bonono@gmail.com]

Re: Guido at Google


Cameron Laird wrote:[color=blue]
> In article <1135239900.225 499.263300@g14g 2000cwa.googleg roups.com>,
> <bonono@gmail.c om> wrote:
> .
> .
> .[color=green]
> >Well, this may be the CPython way of open source but I don't know if
> >that is "Open source" in general. Another way is that if someone(or
> >group) don't like the current state of a project, they fork. I don't
> >know if that is possible in the context of python, and programming
> >language in general. Can it still be called python ?[/color]
> .
> .
> .
> While I don't understand the question, it might be pertinent to
> observe that, among open-source development projects, Python is
> unusual for the *large* number of "forks" or alternative imple-
> mentations it has supported through the years <URL:
> http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.lang....varieties.html >.[/color]
The question is, can anyone just fork a new one using the python name,
as part of the project, without the permission from the foundation ?
Say for example, anyone want to implement java needs permission from
Sun(or is it javasoft), if I rememeber correctly. Therefore, the only
way to make change to java the language is to convince Sun, very
similar to the model of Python. But many open source project is not
using this model.

[Luis M. González]

Re: Guido at Google

> Java => Sun[color=blue]
> .Net => Microsoft
> C# => Microsoft
> Linux => too many big name IT companies to mention
> Python => ________ ?[/color]

I know at least one company responsible for a linux distro (Cannonical
- Ubuntu), which encourages and even pays programmers for developing
applications in Python.
His founder, Mark Shuttleworth, is a python fan.

[Carsten Haese]

Re: Guido at Google

On Thu, 2005-12-22 at 07:01, Peter Hansen wrote:[color=blue]
> bonono@gmail.co m wrote:[color=green]
> > So exactly how high is python in Google's priority list ? Or in other
> > words, if python is in a stand still as it is now, what would be the
> > impact to Google ?[/color]
>
> Since when is Python in a standstill?[/color]

I believe bonono meant the question in the hypothetical sense of "If
Python would stand still in its current state, what would be the impact
to Google?" but didn't know how to ask it correctly.

-Carsten

[Renato]

Re: Guido at Google

For what is worth,
all of the native administration tools of RedHat (all versions) and
Fedora Core are written in python (system-config-* and/or
redhat-config-* ). And even more importantly, yum (the official
software package manager for Fedora and RHEL) and Anaconda (OS
installer) are written in Python, too.

So RedHat, too, has a big interest in Python :-)

--
Renato Ramonda

[Graham Fawcett]

Re: Guido at Google

Cameron Laird wrote:[color=blue]
> In article <1135239900.225 499.263300@g14g 2000cwa.googleg roups.com>,
> <bonono@gmail.c om> wrote:
> .[color=green]
> >Well, this may be the CPython way of open source but I don't know if
> >that is "Open source" in general. Another way is that if someone(or
> >group) don't like the current state of a project, they fork. I don't
> >know if that is possible in the context of python, and programming
> >language in general. Can it still be called python ?[/color]
> .
> While I don't understand the question, it might be pertinent to
> observe that, among open-source development projects, Python is
> unusual for the *large* number of "forks" or alternative imple-
> mentations it has supported through the years <URL:
> http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.lang....varieties.html >.[/color]

....though not a lot of forks/variations that have persisted past the
early-alpha phase. Many of those projects are stale or defunct, alas.

Personally, I'd point out Scheme as an "open" HLL with a vast number of
implementations . But I guess it helps when the language itself is a
spec and there's no canonical implementation.

This all reminds me of one my favourite quotes from python-list of
yore:

<Thaddeus Olczyk> So python will fork if ActiveState starts
polluting it?

<Brian Quinlan> I find it more relevant to speculate on whether
Python would fork if the merpeople start invading our cities
riding on the backs of giant king crabs. [1]

Merry _('Christmas') to all,
Graham

----
[1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pyt...il/037142.html

[Graham Fawcett]

Re: Guido at Google

Steve Holden wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
> > Nicola Musatti wrote:
> > Of course, I'm going on vacation next week and there was talk
> > about a one-way ticket to Mexico. The real question is will they let me *back* in? :-)
> >[/color]
> I would be careful coming back across the border. I heard that the PSU[/color]
[suspicous premature end-of-sentence]

Steve, I hope that the PSU is just jamming your comms, and not holding
you captive over the holidays for your transgressions against the
cabal!

Graham

[Steve Holden]

Re: Guido at Google

bonono@gmail.co m wrote:[color=blue]
> Cameron Laird wrote:
>[color=green]
>>In article <1135239900.225 499.263300@g14g 2000cwa.googleg roups.com>,
>> <bonono@gmail.c om> wrote:
>> .
>> .
>> .
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Well, this may be the CPython way of open source but I don't know if
>>>that is "Open source" in general. Another way is that if someone(or
>>>group) don't like the current state of a project, they fork. I don't
>>>know if that is possible in the context of python, and programming
>>>language in general. Can it still be called python ?[/color]
>>
>> .
>> .
>> .
>>While I don't understand the question, it might be pertinent to
>>observe that, among open-source development projects, Python is
>>unusual for the *large* number of "forks" or alternative imple-
>>mentations it has supported through the years <URL:
>>http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.lang....varieties.html >.[/color]
>
> The question is, can anyone just fork a new one using the python name,
> as part of the project, without the permission from the foundation ?
> Say for example, anyone want to implement java needs permission from
> Sun(or is it javasoft), if I rememeber correctly. Therefore, the only
> way to make change to java the language is to convince Sun, very
> similar to the model of Python. But many open source project is not
> using this model.
>[/color]
Well the name "Python" is a trade mark of the Python Software
Foundation. So if you invent another language and start calling it
"Python" just to get an audience you should expect to receive a
cease-and-desist letter.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/

[bonono@gmail.com]

Re: Guido at Google


Steve Holden wrote:[color=blue]
> Well the name "Python" is a trade mark of the Python Software
> Foundation. So if you invent another language and start calling it
> "Python" just to get an audience you should expect to receive a
> cease-and-desist letter.
>[/color]
That is what I expect but don't know to what extend. Can it be called
PythonModified like when people enhance vi so there is vim and nvi etc
?

What about the copyright in CPython ? Can I someone take the codebase
and make modifications then call it Sneak ?