IDE

[neblackcat]

Re: IDE

Personally I think its hard to look past Komodo these days:

a) very cheap (personal edition)

b) edits, debugs (locally and remotely, with all the debugging
features that you expect) and has projects

c) cross platform (you get licenses for both Win32 and Linux versions
automatically)

d) isnt Python specific (eg. works just as well for PHP)

e) a lot faster and more stable than it used to be (probably due to
its much improved underlying Mozilla code of late)

I've only really got 2 complaints with it:

a) No Brief keyboard mappings :-(
b) Cant inspect a variable by hovering the mouse above it when
debugging

I've also tried their VisualPython and didnt really think it was any
better, though a hell of a lot more expensive (and still no Brief
keyboard mappings).

Just my 2.6 australian cents

[Thomas Lindgaard]

Re: IDE

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:37:19 +0000, Steve Lamb wrote:
[color=blue]
> Kdevelop3?[/color]

I've tried that - but does it have a debugger for Python? As far as I can
tell it only debugs C/C++.

--
Regards
/Thomas

[Thomas Lindgaard]

Re: IDE

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:22:54 +1000, Peter Milliken wrote:
[color=blue]
> So whilst I know that Thomas does not "want Emacs or Vi", I believe my
> response is in the spirit of the original email :-)[/color]

It is indeed :)

But I just think that I could ever learn all those keyboard shortcuts...
and I've tried a few times to install new modes (eg. PHP-mode) - sometimes
with success :) - but Emacs and I will never be best friends.

<war disregard="yes please do">
It's a great editor for yum.conf and the like, though.
</war>

--
Regards
/Thomas

[A.M. Kuchling]

Re: IDE

On 15 Jul 2004 11:27:20 +0300,
Ville Vainio <ville@spammers .com> wrote:[color=blue]
> - 1.0 will be an Eclipse 3.0 compatibility release. There are some new
> debugger features like an environment tab that are cheap to implement,
> and very useful.
> And that's it. Over & out, off to new projects.[/color]

It looks like I might begin working with Eclipse as part of my job,
developing plugins for our internal use. Having Python support would
therefore be useful; is anyone else interested in helping to maintain
Eclipse/Python support?

--amk

[Markus Wankus]

Re: IDE

Ville Vainio wrote:
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>>>"Markus " == Markus Wankus <markus_wankusG ETRIDOFALLCAPS@ hotmail.com> writes:[/color][/color]
>
>
> Markus> If you don't mind "bleeding edge" software - pydev for
> Markus> Eclipse is coming along. You can try it for yourself:
>
> Markus> http://pydev.sourceforge.net/
>
> Too bad pydev development seems to be stopping - the developer is
> losing interest in the project (or at least that is what is said on
> the project page). I tried it yesterday, it seems very promising
> (though the debugger was very slow).
>
> Eclipse is the only candidate worthy of replacing Emacs in the future,
> so here's to hoping someone will adopt the pydev project at some
> point.
>[/color]

I agree. I think there are a few other developers on the project that
will take over where Aleks leaves off. I will definitely get involved
in the future as time permits. I think this project will rock if we
could integrate jpype when it is ready (http://jpype.sourceforge.net/).

But you are correct - you do need some sort of type system in the
language to get all the features of the Java editor. You could do some
rudimentary stuff (like the way Pythonwin works for instance) right
away. The big thing we need is a *real* debugger - the editor stuff can
come later.
Seeing just how amazing Eclipse is for Java development makes me wonder
if the designers of Java had more than the language in mind when
developing it. Perhaps they were thinking ahead to the future of the
IDE they would use to develop the language....

Markus.

[Steve Menard]

Re: IDE

Markus Wankus wrote:[color=blue]
> Ville Vainio wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>>>> "Markus" == Markus Wankus
>>>>>>> <markus_wankusG ETRIDOFALLCAPS@ hotmail.com> writes:[/color]
>>
>>
>>
>> Markus> If you don't mind "bleeding edge" software - pydev for
>> Markus> Eclipse is coming along. You can try it for yourself:
>>
>> Markus> http://pydev.sourceforge.net/
>>
>> Too bad pydev development seems to be stopping - the developer is
>> losing interest in the project (or at least that is what is said on
>> the project page). I tried it yesterday, it seems very promising
>> (though the debugger was very slow).
>>
>> Eclipse is the only candidate worthy of replacing Emacs in the future,
>> so here's to hoping someone will adopt the pydev project at some
>> point.
>>[/color]
>
> I agree. I think there are a few other developers on the project that
> will take over where Aleks leaves off. I will definitely get involved
> in the future as time permits. I think this project will rock if we
> could integrate jpype when it is ready (http://jpype.sourceforge.net/).
>
> But you are correct - you do need some sort of type system in the
> language to get all the features of the Java editor. You could do some
> rudimentary stuff (like the way Pythonwin works for instance) right
> away. The big thing we need is a *real* debugger - the editor stuff can
> come later.
> Seeing just how amazing Eclipse is for Java development makes me wonder
> if the designers of Java had more than the language in mind when
> developing it. Perhaps they were thinking ahead to the future of the
> IDE they would use to develop the language....
>
> Markus.[/color]

Regarding JPype and Eclipse

Actually you are right. When I started JPype I immediatly saw where it
could help in eclipse. Let's face it, people interested in a Python
editor will not want to spend long hours coding it ... in Java.

I do not know how easy it will be to implement Eclipse plugins/extension
in Python, but I sure will try. :)

Steve Menard

[Peter Hansen]

Re: IDE

Ville Vainio wrote:
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>>>"Wolfgang " == Wolfgang Langner <wl@flexis.de > writes:[/color][/color]
> Wolfgang> I think the project is very activ:
> Wolfgang> pydev 0.5, the katzenmeyer kids July 12, 2004
> Wolfgang> if the developer is losing interest, he does it on a
> Wolfgang> very hight level. :-)
>
> Apparently he's "finishing" it.
>
> From http://pydev.sourceforge.net/ :
> Future My plans for the future are:[/color]
[snip plans]

Actually, it's nice to see that the developer has an exit
strategy. Sounds like one of the more promising projects
on SourceForge from that statement alone... too many
people (myself included) start projects there without the
slightest plan for the future, including how to hand it off
when we get tired and need to move on.

Just because the one who initiated it has plans to leave,
at some not clearly defined point in the future, doesn't
mean the project will fail. It just means the fellow is
realistic and has good experience in open source dev...

-Peter

[Jussi Jumppanen]

Re: IDE

neblackcat wrote:
[color=blue]
> I've also tried their VisualPython and didnt really think it was
> any better, though a hell of a lot more expensive (and still no
> Brief keyboard mappings).[/color]

Zeus for Windows (shareware) has Brief emulation, is scriptable
using python macros and comes pre-configured for python, but as
the name suggests it only runs on the Windows platform:

http://www.zeusedit.com/lookmain.html

Jussi Jumppanen

[Paul Morrow]

Re: IDE

ellisjb@my-deja.com wrote:[color=blue]
> I agree. I've tried Komodo, Wing, and all the free ones, and Komodo is
> far and away the most polished.
>
> neblackcat wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Personally I think its hard to look past Komodo these days:[/color]
>
>[/color]

I liked Komodo when I tried it too, but really wished that it had a
class browser. I asked the folks at ActiveState about that and they
said that it wasn't a planned addition at this time.

Unlike the earlier (and currently stable) version of Wing, Wing 2.0 beta
sports a lot of "polish". The IDE has been substantially rewritten,
using (I believe) the QT gui library (you can see the new look from the
screen shots on the wingware web site).

[Markus Wankus]

Re: IDE

A.M. Kuchling wrote:[color=blue]
> On 15 Jul 2004 11:27:20 +0300,
> Ville Vainio <ville@spammers .com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>- 1.0 will be an Eclipse 3.0 compatibility release. There are some new
>>debugger features like an environment tab that are cheap to implement,
>>and very useful.
>>And that's it. Over & out, off to new projects.[/color]
>
>
> It looks like I might begin working with Eclipse as part of my job,
> developing plugins for our internal use. Having Python support would
> therefore be useful; is anyone else interested in helping to maintain
> Eclipse/Python support?
>
> --amk[/color]

I'd be up for it. I can totally sympathize with the developer of pydev
about the PITA that Eclipse can be - but you gotta admit there is a HUGE
amount of functionality there for free. I can say that because I've had
a relatively productive week developing Eclipse. Some weeks are worse
than others... ;o)

Markus.

[Stephen Boulet]

Re: IDE

Paul Morrow wrote:
[color=blue]
> Unlike the earlier (and currently stable) version of Wing, Wing 2.0 beta
> sports a lot of "polish". The IDE has been substantially rewritten,
> using (I believe) the QT gui library (you can see the new look from the
> screen shots on the wingware web site).[/color]

I see some files with 'gtk' in their names in the install directory, so
maybe that's what they are using. If so I've never seen gtk look so good.

For you people with eclipse experience, does their gui toolkit wrap just
motif on linux (why oh why)? I wonder what the potential for developing
gui apps under eclipse with python is.

Stephem

[Skip Montanaro]

Re: [OT] Emacs, Eclipse, Leo (was Re: IDE


Ville> Too bad Emacs seems to lack the development energy these days to
Ville> match the features of modern IDEs.

Dilution of the development community by the continued rift between the GNU
Emacs and XEmacs folks doesn't help...

Skip

[Nick Vargish]

Re: IDE

Thomas Lindgaard <thomas@it-snedkeren.BLACK _HOLE.dk> writes:
[color=blue]
> but Emacs and I will never be best friends.[/color]

That would require mutual respect. I love Emacs, but I often feel that it
barely tolerates me.

Nick

--
# sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y )-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=o bwAcboefstobudi/psh?')

[Nick Vargish]

Re: IDE

neblackcat@yaho o.com.au (neblackcat) writes:
[color=blue]
> Personally I think its hard to look past Komodo these days:[/color]

I like Komodo a lot, but without an OS X version it's of limited use
to me.

(X)Emacs is still the winner -- runs on all platforms, and has a text
mode for the times I'm logged into a system through a terminal
emulator.

Nick

--
# sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y )-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=o bwAcboefstobudi/psh?')

[Shawn Wheatley]

Re: IDE

On 16 Jul 2004 14:32:08 -0400, Nick Vargish <nav+posts@band ersnatch.org> wrote:
[color=blue]
> I like Komodo a lot, but without an OS X version it's of limited use
> to me.
>
> (X)Emacs is still the winner -- runs on all platforms, and has a text
> mode for the times I'm logged into a system through a terminal
> emulator.[/color]

Has anybody else conceded defeat there isn't a be-all, end-all text
editor for them? I've mostly just decided to look for an editor on
each platform that has the core functionality I want (key combos I
expect, code folding, etc.), but integrates well with the platform I'm
on. For example, I do mostly .NET work in Visual Studio at work. So
when I'm doing Python at work, it makes the most sense to use
ActiveState's Python add-in for VS.NET. When I'm on Linux, it might
be Komodo, or Eric3, or a stand-alone text editor.

I'd like to have a One True Editor, but in all my years of programming
(10 or so? :), I've never felt comfortable in either Emacs or Vi(m)

Shawn