captchas

[Jon Slaughter]

I was thinking about a way to use a similar idea but to dramatically
increase the ability to thawrt bots.

The idea is to use the idea that humans can use context and patterns to
understand much better than computers in such cases as the following,

http://www.simplebits.com/notebook/2004/01/16/mipellssed_wdors.html

So the idea is to ask the user a very simple questions that is written using
misspelled words and such so that it makes it almost impossible for
computers to recognize what the answer is. The question can be graphically
manipulated so that its also visually harder to figure out like a normal
captcha.

Besides changing the order of the letters in a word one can deliberately
change letters so that the word doesn't make sense but in the context is not
difficult for a human. One can even use bad grammar and a few other things
to make it more difficult.

I was thinking that one could create a very large database of such things in
different languages that sites could use.

What do you guys think?

Jon

[Mike P2]

Re: captchas

On May 9, 1:25 pm, "Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaugh...@ Hotmail.comwrot e:

I was thinking about a way to use a similar idea but to dramatically
increase the ability to thawrt bots.
>
The idea is to use the idea that humans can use context and patterns to
understand much better than computers in such cases as the following,
>

http://www.simplebits.com/notebook/2004/01/16/mipellssed_wdors.html

>
So the idea is to ask the user a very simple questions that is written using
misspelled words and such so that it makes it almost impossible for
computers to recognize what the answer is. The question can be graphically
manipulated so that its also visually harder to figure out like a normal
captcha.
>
Besides changing the order of the letters in a word one can deliberately
change letters so that the word doesn't make sense but in the context is not
difficult for a human. One can even use bad grammar and a few other things
to make it more difficult.
>
I was thinking that one could create a very large database of such things in
different languages that sites could use.
>
What do you guys think?
>
Jon

Cool idea!

Don't let up on scrambling the image, though, because I think it would
then still be possible for coders to decode the image into plain text
(like they do now) and bruteforce every possible mix of the letters
against your database, if anyone who can pay you with Paypal can get
their hands on a copy of the database. Or better yet, a MySQL 'LIKE'
comparison with a wildcard in the middle.

I think another important factor in human verification images would be
differentiation between websites. All phpBB forums using the same
CAPTCHA code would be easier to write a script for that can fool all
of them than many distributions of a verification image script that
acts slightly different depending on it's environment, like whoever
manages the website can make their own backgrounds, or add some more
variation by entering a secret word or number on which calculations
will be based.

Good luck!

-Mike PII

[Rami Elomaa]

Re: captchas

"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter@ Hotmail.comwrot e in message
news:Aun0i.1721 $UU.300@newssvr 19.news.prodigy .net...

>I was thinking about a way to use a similar idea but to dramatically
>increase the ability to thawrt bots.
>
The idea is to use the idea that humans can use context and patterns to
understand much better than computers in such cases as the following,
>

http://www.simplebits.com/notebook/2004/01/16/mipellssed_wdors.html

>
So the idea is to ask the user a very simple questions that is written
using misspelled words and such so that it makes it almost impossible for
computers to recognize what the answer is. The question can be graphically
manipulated so that its also visually harder to figure out like a normal
captcha.
>
Besides changing the order of the letters in a word one can deliberately
change letters so that the word doesn't make sense but in the context is
not difficult for a human. One can even use bad grammar and a few other
things to make it more difficult.
>
I was thinking that one could create a very large database of such things
in different languages that sites could use.
>
What do you guys think?

You're giving the finger to dyslexic people.

--
Rami.Elomaa@gma il.com

"Good tea. Nice house." -- Worf

[Jon Slaughter]

Re: captchas


"Rami Elomaa" <rami.elomaa@gm ail.comwrote in message
news:jYA0i.1615 97$y53.19889@re ader1.news.saun alahti.fi...

"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter@ Hotmail.comwrot e in message
news:Aun0i.1721 $UU.300@newssvr 19.news.prodigy .net...

>>I was thinking about a way to use a similar idea but to dramatically
>>increase the ability to thawrt bots.
>>
>The idea is to use the idea that humans can use context and patterns to
>understand much better than computers in such cases as the following,
>>
>http://www.simplebits.com/notebook/2...sed_wdors.html
>>
>So the idea is to ask the user a very simple questions that is written
>using misspelled words and such so that it makes it almost impossible for
>computers to recognize what the answer is. The question can be
>graphically manipulated so that its also visually harder to figure out
>like a normal captcha.
>>
>Besides changing the order of the letters in a word one can deliberately
>change letters so that the word doesn't make sense but in the context is
>not difficult for a human. One can even use bad grammar and a few other
>things to make it more difficult.
>>
>I was thinking that one could create a very large database of such things
>in different languages that sites could use.
>>
>What do you guys think?

>
>
You're giving the finger to dyslexic people.
>

And? So you think they can read normal captchas too? if they are dyslexic
then chances are they can actually read them easier because there is
context... so you don't have to read letter for letter but just get the
question.

Dyslexia is an excuse for stupid people.

[Rami Elomaa]

Re: captchas

"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter@ Hotmail.comwrot e in message
news:M5C0i.2096 5$JZ3.17479@new ssvr13.news.pro digy.net...

>
"Rami Elomaa" <rami.elomaa@gm ail.comwrote in message
news:jYA0i.1615 97$y53.19889@re ader1.news.saun alahti.fi...

>"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter@ Hotmail.comwrot e in message
>news:Aun0i.172 1$UU.300@newssv r19.news.prodig y.net...

>>>I was thinking about a way to use a similar idea but to dramatically
>>>increase the ability to thawrt bots.
>>>
>>The idea is to use the idea that humans can use context and patterns to
>>understand much better than computers in such cases as the following,
>>>
>>http://www.simplebits.com/notebook/2...sed_wdors.html
>>>
>>So the idea is to ask the user a very simple questions that is written
>>using misspelled words and such so that it makes it almost impossible
>>for computers to recognize what the answer is. The question can be
>>graphically manipulated so that its also visually harder to figure out
>>like a normal captcha.
>>>
>>Besides changing the order of the letters in a word one can deliberately
>>change letters so that the word doesn't make sense but in the context is
>>not difficult for a human. One can even use bad grammar and a few other
>>things to make it more difficult.
>>>
>>I was thinking that one could create a very large database of such
>>things in different languages that sites could use.
>>>
>>What do you guys think?

>>
>>
>You're giving the finger to dyslexic people.
>>

>
And? So you think they can read normal captchas too?

No, I think the usual captchas are hard to read too, dyslexic or not.

if they are dyslexic then chances are they can actually read them easier
because there is context... so you don't have to read letter for letter
but just get the question.

If normal text with context is hard to read, garbled text will be even more
difficult to read, even if it is in context. Feel free to ignore the issue,
but please don't pretend it doesn't exist.

Dyslexia is an excuse for stupid people.

And being blind is just an excuse for being clumsy...

Look, if you didn't want feedback then why the hell did you ask in the first
place?

--
Rami.Elomaa@gma il.com

"Good tea. Nice house." -- Worf

[Jon Slaughter]

Re: captchas


"Rami Elomaa" <rami.elomaa@gm ail.comwrote in message
news:mSC0i.1616 38$7S3.88425@re ader1.news.saun alahti.fi...

"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter@ Hotmail.comwrot e in message
news:M5C0i.2096 5$JZ3.17479@new ssvr13.news.pro digy.net...

>>
>"Rami Elomaa" <rami.elomaa@gm ail.comwrote in message
>news:jYA0i.161 597$y53.19889@r eader1.news.sau nalahti.fi...

>>"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter@ Hotmail.comwrot e in message
>>news:Aun0i.17 21$UU.300@newss vr19.news.prodi gy.net...
>>>>I was thinking about a way to use a similar idea but to dramatically
>>>>increase the ability to thawrt bots.
>>>>
>>>The idea is to use the idea that humans can use context and patterns to
>>>understand much better than computers in such cases as the following,
>>>>
>>>http://www.simplebits.com/notebook/2...sed_wdors.html
>>>>
>>>So the idea is to ask the user a very simple questions that is written
>>>using misspelled words and such so that it makes it almost impossible
>>>for computers to recognize what the answer is. The question can be
>>>graphicall y manipulated so that its also visually harder to figure out
>>>like a normal captcha.
>>>>
>>>Besides changing the order of the letters in a word one can
>>>deliberate ly change letters so that the word doesn't make sense but in
>>>the context is not difficult for a human. One can even use bad grammar
>>>and a few other things to make it more difficult.
>>>>
>>>I was thinking that one could create a very large database of such
>>>things in different languages that sites could use.
>>>>
>>>What do you guys think?
>>>
>>>
>>You're giving the finger to dyslexic people.
>>>

>>
>And? So you think they can read normal captchas too?

>
No, I think the usual captchas are hard to read too, dyslexic or not.
>

>if they are dyslexic then chances are they can actually read them easier
>because there is context... so you don't have to read letter for letter
>but just get the question.

>
If normal text with context is hard to read, garbled text will be even
more difficult to read, even if it is in context. Feel free to ignore the
issue, but please don't pretend it doesn't exist.
>

>Dyslexia is an excuse for stupid people.

>
And being blind is just an excuse for being clumsy...
>

that isn't feedback. Shit. What about blind people? Do you bitch that
captchas are completely worthless for them and since 99.9% of people who are
not blind have to act blind because we don't want to in any way descriminate
against the 0.1%?

How many sites use captchas? If its such a difficult thing then obviously
you should bitch at them first.

Look, if you didn't want feedback then why the hell did you ask in the
first place?
>

No, that isn't feedback. Your trying to dictate to me something that you
haven't thought out. What about dyslexic people? What the hell about them?
Just cause there are dyslexic people out there that means that the rest of
us have to dumb down everything instead of them trying harder? Theres
plenty of dyslexic people who don't use it as an excuse and I'm partially
dyslexic but I haven't let it get in my way.

It just sounds to me like your making up an excuse for something. Just cause
you personally don't like captchas and thing they are useless doesn't mean
they are. In fact I don't like them either but I don't like that people
think they can do whatever they want. In a perfect world there would be no
need for captchas... but this isn't a perfect world and instead of trying to
make the world conform to you, you need to conform to the world.

You know, theres no telling how many times I've fucked up on some captcha
and had to wait 1 min each time for the timer to go down(Such as on
rapidshare). Sure I get pissed... so what. If it inconvieninces those
loosers who try to hack account then its worth it.

I'm sure those people who are dyslexic can spend 5 mins figuring out a
captcha if it stops 99.9% of bots/hackers. Its not like any normal person
signs up to more than a few accounts a month.

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: captchas

Jon Slaughter wrote:

"Rami Elomaa" <rami.elomaa@gm ail.comwrote in message
news:jYA0i.1615 97$y53.19889@re ader1.news.saun alahti.fi...

>"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter@ Hotmail.comwrot e in message
>news:Aun0i.172 1$UU.300@newssv r19.news.prodig y.net...

>>I was thinking about a way to use a similar idea but to dramatically
>>increase the ability to thawrt bots.
>>>
>>The idea is to use the idea that humans can use context and patterns to
>>understand much better than computers in such cases as the following,
>>>
>>http://www.simplebits.com/notebook/2...sed_wdors.html
>>>
>>So the idea is to ask the user a very simple questions that is written
>>using misspelled words and such so that it makes it almost impossible for
>>computers to recognize what the answer is. The question can be
>>graphically manipulated so that its also visually harder to figure out
>>like a normal captcha.
>>>
>>Besides changing the order of the letters in a word one can deliberately
>>change letters so that the word doesn't make sense but in the context is
>>not difficult for a human. One can even use bad grammar and a few other
>>things to make it more difficult.
>>>
>>I was thinking that one could create a very large database of such things
>>in different languages that sites could use.
>>>
>>What do you guys think?

>>
>You're giving the finger to dyslexic people.
>>

>
And? So you think they can read normal captchas too? if they are dyslexic
then chances are they can actually read them easier because there is
context... so you don't have to read letter for letter but just get the
question.
>
Dyslexia is an excuse for stupid people.
>
>

No, dyslexia is a real medical problem.

And you are stupid and bigoted. Go back to alt.arseholes where you belong.


--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Jon Slaughter]

Re: captchas


"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attg lobal.netwrote in message
news:fvidnaFrLv lkmN7bnZ2dnUVZ_ gGdnZ2d@comcast .com...

Jon Slaughter wrote:

>"Rami Elomaa" <rami.elomaa@gm ail.comwrote in message
>news:jYA0i.161 597$y53.19889@r eader1.news.sau nalahti.fi...

>>"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter@ Hotmail.comwrot e in message
>>news:Aun0i.17 21$UU.300@newss vr19.news.prodi gy.net...
>>>I was thinking about a way to use a similar idea but to dramatically
>>>increase the ability to thawrt bots.
>>>>
>>>The idea is to use the idea that humans can use context and patterns to
>>>understand much better than computers in such cases as the following,
>>>>
>>>http://www.simplebits.com/notebook/2...sed_wdors.html
>>>>
>>>So the idea is to ask the user a very simple questions that is written
>>>using misspelled words and such so that it makes it almost impossible
>>>for computers to recognize what the answer is. The question can be
>>>graphicall y manipulated so that its also visually harder to figure out
>>>like a normal captcha.
>>>>
>>>Besides changing the order of the letters in a word one can
>>>deliberate ly change letters so that the word doesn't make sense but in
>>>the context is not difficult for a human. One can even use bad grammar
>>>and a few other things to make it more difficult.
>>>>
>>>I was thinking that one could create a very large database of such
>>>things in different languages that sites could use.
>>>>
>>>What do you guys think?
>>>
>>You're giving the finger to dyslexic people.
>>>

>>
>And? So you think they can read normal captchas too? if they are
>dyslexic then chances are they can actually read them easier because
>there is context... so you don't have to read letter for letter but just
>get the question.
>>
>Dyslexia is an excuse for stupid people.

>
No, dyslexia is a real medical problem.
>
And you are stupid and bigoted. Go back to alt.arseholes where you
belong.
>

Nope. Your the ignorant one. Difference is that you think these are excuses
for people to use not to do well while I think they just mean that the
person has to work harder.

Your a moron. No matter what excuses someone creates life doesn't give a
shit. Luckily some of those with real problems(not this bs like ADD,
dyslexia, etc...) overcome them because they do not make up excuses.
Unfortunately many do not because of people like you.

Don't you think that if you say something like "Its ok for being stupid
johnny. You have an excuse... so you don't have to do anything with your
life" is the right way to go or rather "It just means your going to have to
try extra hard johnny."?

Get into the real world and stop making excuses for everyone.

[Geoff Berrow]

Re: captchas

Message-ID: <LUD0i.1082$mR2 .533@newssvr22. news.prodigy.ne tfrom Jon
Slaughter contained the following:

>And you are stupid and bigoted. Go back to alt.arseholes where you
>belong.
>>

>
>Nope. Your the ignorant one.

...

Your a moron.

<smirk>

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

[Jon Slaughter]

Re: captchas


"Geoff Berrow" <blthecat@ckdog .co.ukwrote in message
news:s44643ls66 88bc4t44rufgvs1 8t719tr6u@4ax.c om...

Message-ID: <LUD0i.1082$mR2 .533@newssvr22. news.prodigy.ne tfrom Jon
Slaughter contained the following:
>

>>And you are stupid and bigoted. Go back to alt.arseholes where you
>>belong.
>>>

>>
>>Nope. Your the ignorant one.

...

>Your a moron.

>
<smirk>
>

I guess someone is going to point out that its you're?

[Jon Slaughter]

Re: OT Re: captchas


"David Gillen" <Belial@RedBric k.DCU.IEwrote in message
news:slrnf466vn .vos.Belial@mur phy.redbrick.dc u.ie...

Jon Slaughter said:

>>
>"Geoff Berrow" <blthecat@ckdog .co.ukwrote in message
>news:s44643ls6 688bc4t44rufgvs 18t719tr6u@4ax. com...

>>Message-ID: <LUD0i.1082$mR2 .533@newssvr22. news.prodigy.ne tfrom Jon
>>Slaughter contained the following:
>>>
>>>>And you are stupid and bigoted. Go back to alt.arseholes where you
>>>>belong.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Nope. Your the ignorant one.
>>...
>>>Your a moron.
>>>
>><smirk>
>>>

>>
>I guess someone is going to point out that its you're?
>>

Well there was that and other spelling mistakes, along with grammar which
left
a lot to be desired. Coupled with your obvious distinct lack of
understanding
of dyslexia and how some people suffer far more severely than others from
it.
You're very obviously trolling for the sake of trolling.
>

Yeah, whatever. I just love the ad hominems that spew from your mouth.

[Geoff Berrow]

Re: captchas

Message-ID: <_vE0i.1090$mR2 .613@newssvr22. news.prodigy.ne tfrom Jon
Slaughter contained the following:

>>>Nope. Your the ignorant one.

>...

>>Your a moron.

>>
><smirk>
>>

>
>I guess someone is going to point out that its you're?

Its you're is what?

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

[Mike P2]

Re: captchas

On May 10, 4:45 am, "Rami Elomaa" <rami.elo...@gm ail.comwrote:

You're giving the finger to dyslexic people.

I'd use Jon's method anyway. Dyslexic people can send me an email
instead to prove they are human, and so can the blind. If they can't
even send me an email, I don't know if I want them registering on my
site and posting in my forums anyway.

-Mike PII

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: captchas

Jon Slaughter wrote:

"Geoff Berrow" <blthecat@ckdog .co.ukwrote in message
news:s44643ls66 88bc4t44rufgvs1 8t719tr6u@4ax.c om...

>Message-ID: <LUD0i.1082$mR2 .533@newssvr22. news.prodigy.ne tfrom Jon
>Slaughter contained the following:
>>

>>>And you are stupid and bigoted. Go back to alt.arseholes where you
>>>belong.
>>>>
>>Nope. Your the ignorant one.

>...

>>Your a moron.

><smirk>
>>

>
I guess someone is going to point out that its you're?
>
>

No - IT'S you're.

Moron.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[shror]

Re: captchas

On May 11, 7:20 am, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

Jon Slaughter wrote:

"Geoff Berrow" <blthe...@ckdog .co.ukwrote in message
news:s44643ls66 88bc4t44rufgvs1 8t719tr6u@4ax.c om...

Message-ID: <LUD0i.1082$mR2 ....@newssvr22. news.prodigy.ne tfrom Jon
Slaughter contained the following:

>

>>And you are stupid and bigoted. Go back to alt.arseholes where you
>>belong.

>

>Nope. Your the ignorant one.
...
>Your a moron.
<smirk>

>

I guess someone is going to point out that its you're?

>
No - IT'S you're.
>
Moron.
>
--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attgl obal.net
=============== ===- Hide quoted text -
>
- Show quoted text -

hey guys why dont you calm down this topic is just giving a new
captcha idea not to have a fight and extchange bad words, we all are
here to give ideas, ask questions, get feedbacks not fighting.

in my openion i think the idea of this new captcha is good but may be
if we just thing a little bit more for the dyslexic peolpe and
handicaped ones we could get a new solution that will be good for all.

the security situation is still in its first steps so there will be
some mistakes developers will face (which is the bugs we report daily)
so i think the dyslexic people situation with this new captcha idea is
a bug that we must think of a solution for.
thats all

hope we all fight spammers and hackers who think only on ways to
destroy our world, so lets face them.