If .net and j2ee are so great...

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  • luke

    #61
    Re: mlw, perhaps you should learn about J2EE before sticking your foot in your mouth?

    xx <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote in message news:<3F46443E. 9030309@yyy.zzz >...[color=blue]
    > Actually, web applications and business logic applications are *very*
    > simple indeed. It is the infrastructure behind the J2EE environments is
    > very heavy duty and complex. Clustered SQL databases (obviously not
    > written in Java), caching systems, and so on.
    >
    > The front end, load balanced, redundent, J2EE environments doing the
    > business logic are very simple.[/color]

    You sir, are a fool who obviously has no idea what you're talking
    about. That "infrastruc ture in the backend" which you admit is very
    heavy duty and complex is partly of J2EE. I would suggest actually
    learning about Java before making an ass of yourself in public.

    J2EE is a specification for a comprehensive middleware system, not
    simply a single application or set of applications running on a single
    web application server on the "front end". J2EE is somewhat inherently
    complex because it was meant to be distributed in nature (anyone who
    has ever tried to master EJBs can testify to this). As such it has
    multiple components, most of which are not on the "front-end", like
    JMS for messaging, JNDI for accessing naming services, RMI-IIOP for
    communication between the distributed objects, etc, etc. The less
    complex apps use the more well-known components, such as servlets and
    JSP pages (which are nearer the "front-end", and which is what most
    people - including ignorant know-it-alls like you - typically
    associate with "J2EE").

    For example, we have implemented large scale n-tier clusters of J2EE
    application servers that rely on clustered EJBs to provide very high
    reliability and availability for users (a financial institution).
    This is not something you put together in one single afternoon, nor
    can it be in any way considered "simple". There is some price (in the
    form of complexity) to be paid for enabling such high
    reliability,sca lability, and availability.

    And do you even know what "clustered" sql databases are?

    Comment

    • luke

      #62
      Re: mlw, perhaps you should tell this to all those large J2EE users? (Re: If .net and j2ee are so great...)

      xx <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote in message news:<3F46464D. 3010600@yyy.zzz >...[color=blue]
      > The Mohawk Software "Msession" manager for PHP can handle a regularly
      > distributed "400 million" page/session operations in a day on one 800MHZ
      > dual PIII Linux box.
      >[/color]

      You're equating a session manager process with eBay transactions that
      involve multiple processes and procedures. Perhaps you are even
      foolish enough to think we can run eBay on your 800MHz Linux box?

      Go back and learn some more before commenting on things you have no
      idea about.

      Comment

      • Tor Iver Wilhelmsen

        #63
        Re: - Complex.CPP Vs. Simple.NET -

        Roedy Green <roedy@mindprod .com> writes:
        [color=blue]
        > When you have a deadline or customers who won't tolerate bugs.[/color]

        Or you want to deploy to a heterogenous OS environment.

        Comment

        • GreyCloud

          #64
          Re: If .net and j2ee are so great...

          Chad Myers wrote:[color=blue]
          >
          > "GreyCloud" <cumulus@mist.c om> wrote in message
          > news:3F45A153.A 29DD2B0@mist.co m...[color=green]
          > > Simon Cooke wrote:[/color]
          >
          > <snip>
          >[color=green][color=darkred]
          > > > I stopped programming in Java because I couldn't stand the amount of[/color][/color]
          > memory[color=green][color=darkred]
          > > > it was taking up to run simple apps, or the perf hit. It's the same[/color][/color]
          > reason[color=green][color=darkred]
          > > > I won't use C#.
          > > >
          > > > That, and the lack of templates.
          > > >[/color]
          > >
          > > Same here... I didn't really like the anonymous handler
          > > style... to me it was rather cumbersome and vague at first
          > > glance.[/color]
          >
          > Uh oh, anonymous methods are coming to C#. I personally
          > disagree with the reasons why seeing their abuse in Java,
          > but whatever.
          >
          > I'm still not sure about partial types either, it seems
          > like it'll just lead to confusion and abuse as well,
          > with very little benefit[/color]

          I'd rather see code in a straight forward manner, rather
          than seeing embedded '{'s all the time.

          Comment

          • Chad Myers

            #65
            Re: If .net and j2ee are so great...


            "Ixtlan" <ixtlan@survivo r.net> wrote in message
            news:Z8y1b.2319 8$Hb.369166@new s4.e.nsc.no...[color=blue]
            >
            > "Chad Myers" <cmyers@N0.SP.A M.austin.rr.com > wrote in message
            > news:OgL9H1NaDH A.1940@TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl...
            >[color=green]
            > > NOTE: I don't think you understand what .NET is, exactly, please
            > > read up on the .NET Framework and managed code. .NET not just
            > > web services.[/color]
            >
            > No, .NET is also a massive security hole.[/color]

            lol... I could really care less, but sometimes it's interesting
            to let the crazies out of the zoo for awhile and induldge them
            by asking, "Why do you say that?" just to see how far you can
            go with B.S.
            [color=blue][color=green]
            > > It allows MS to be more agile with the product and quickly
            > > add new features or fix bugs.[/color]
            >
            > Keep dreaming, dumbass![/color]

            Oh that's great. We've got a live one here!

            *PL0NK*

            -c


            Comment

            • Chad Myers

              #66
              Re: mlw, perhaps you should tell this to all those large J2EE users? (Re: If .net and j2ee are so great...)

              Absolutely. There is simply far too little C# discusson in
              comp.os.linux.a dvocacy, microsoft.publi c.dotnet.genera l,
              comp.lang.java. advocacy, and, of all places especially, seattle.general .

              -c

              P.S.- Who was the OP who spammed this to so many groups? And why the
              hell
              was seattle.general included (no offense to Seattle people)

              P.P.S.- Why is it that Java folks feel the need for an advocacy group?
              There's a little Fruedian thing going on there, I think :)

              "Chris Hornberger" <chris@chornbe. com> wrote in message
              news:53ec8913.0 308221323.30f8b 315@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
              > Agreed, Rob. Can this bullshit religious rhetoric just be shelved
              > already and can we discuss things on topic for a change... like... Oh,
              > I dunno... C# related issues?
              >
              > Damn this crap is getting REALLY old.
              >
              > "Rob Tillie" <Rob.Tillie@stu dent.tul.edu> wrote in message >[color=green]
              > > Damn man,
              > >
              > > get your PHP but out of here and stop spamming the newsgroup. This[/color][/color]
              newsgroup[color=blue][color=green]
              > > is about the C# language, not discussions whether php/C++ is better[/color][/color]
              than a[color=blue][color=green]
              > > managed environment.
              > > Open up your mind, and see that this world is one of diversity! If[/color][/color]
              one[color=blue][color=green]
              > > programming language/platform was the best, everyone would be using[/color][/color]
              that[color=blue][color=green]
              > > one. There's a reason why there are so many different platforms...
              > >
              > > Greetz,
              > > -- rob.[/color][/color]


              Comment

              • Chad Myers

                #67
                Re: mlw, perhaps you should tell this to all those large J2EE users? (Re: If .net and j2ee are so great...)


                "luke" <lluck98@yahoo. com> wrote in message
                news:58c3c98f.0 308221346.1c884 b2f@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
                > xx <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote in message news:<3F46464D. 3010600@yyy.zzz >...[color=green]
                > > The Mohawk Software "Msession" manager for PHP can handle a[/color][/color]
                regularly[color=blue][color=green]
                > > distributed "400 million" page/session operations in a day on one[/color][/color]
                800MHZ[color=blue][color=green]
                > > dual PIII Linux box.
                > >[/color]
                >
                > You're equating a session manager process with eBay transactions that
                > involve multiple processes and procedures. Perhaps you are even
                > foolish enough to think we can run eBay on your 800MHz Linux box?[/color]

                Actually, it's a dual-800 box, let's get things straight here.

                -c


                Comment

                • 43

                  #68
                  Re: mlw, perhaps you should tell this to all those large J2EE users? (Re: If .net and j2ee are so great...)

                  Chad Myers:
                  [color=blue]
                  > Absolutely. There is simply far too little C# discusson in
                  > comp.os.linux.a dvocacy, microsoft.publi c.dotnet.genera l,
                  > comp.lang.java. advocacy, and, of all places especially, seattle.general .[/color]

                  don't ask me. I'm still trying
                  to figure out who 'chad meyers' is
                  and why he stole my bedroom
                  slippers.


                  Comment

                  • GreyCloud

                    #69
                    Re: If .net and j2ee are so great...

                    Chad Myers wrote:[color=blue]
                    >
                    > "43" <jabailo@earthl ink.net> wrote in message
                    > news:pan.2003.0 8.21.05.41.41.2 16954@earthlink .net...[color=green]
                    > > Roedy Green:
                    > >[color=darkred]
                    > > > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 05:22:49 GMT, 43 <jabailo@earthl ink.net> wrote[/color][/color]
                    > or[color=green][color=darkred]
                    > > > quoted :
                    > > >
                    > > >>how come m$Office isn't written in .net?
                    > > >>
                    > > >>how come Open Office isn't written in j2ee?
                    > > >
                    > > > Because these are both server side technologies. Editing a document
                    > > > is a solitary activity. It works best with instantaneous response[/color][/color]
                    > to[color=green][color=darkred]
                    > > > each keystroke.[/color]
                    > >
                    > > they are not 'server side'
                    > >
                    > > web services are 'server side'
                    > >
                    > > windows client and console applications are client side.
                    > >
                    > > java applications and applets are both client side.
                    > >
                    > > net beans can be either. rmi means strong clients and servers.
                    > >
                    > > bottom line .net/j2ee can't write the p2p applications
                    > > that are going to dominate the next 10 years.[/color]
                    >
                    > .NET certainly can. I don't know about Java/J2EE, I won't comment
                    > in that regard, but .NET certainly can.
                    >
                    > In fact, MS Research has a rather large P2P project implemented
                    > in the .NET Framework and it's pretty impressive.
                    >[/color]

                    What's so impressive about it? All of these tools are about
                    to become useless and obsolete if M$aggotSoft doesn't clean
                    up its security problems.
                    The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out...

                    Comment

                    • 43

                      #70
                      Re: If .net and j2ee are so great...

                      GreyCloud:

                      [color=blue][color=green]
                      >> In fact, MS Research has a rather large P2P project implemented
                      >> in the .NET Framework and it's pretty impressive.
                      >>[/color]
                      >
                      > What's so impressive about it? All of these tools are about
                      > to become useless and obsolete if M$aggotSoft doesn't clean
                      > up its security problems.
                      > The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out...[/color]

                      agreed. m$0.00ft has a pattern of putting
                      old wine into new skins. i looked at the
                      P2P SDK and was not impressed. I just see
                      them gloming themselves to the P2P bandwagon
                      without much value-added ( but what else is
                      new ! ).

                      i would expect a brand new architecture
                      for the p2p world because, in theory, it would
                      be more about powerful clients talking to
                      each other...and as someone ( many people )
                      have pointed out, the j2ee, dotnet products
                      are designed ( mostly ) as web application
                      tools ( although they can do windows clients,
                      services and so on ) -- but are they the
                      ideal p2p platforms? do they integrate
                      the concept of client and server running
                      in a single app -- or are they n-tier tools,
                      great for the the multi-level web
                      application architecture of browser,
                      middleware components and dbms back end?

                      i dunno...


                      Comment

                      • Chad Myers

                        #71
                        Re: mlw, perhaps you should tell this to all those large J2EE users? (Re: If .net and j2ee are so great...)


                        "43" <jabailo@earthl ink.net> wrote in message
                        news:pan.2003.0 8.23.04.24.04.7 25128@earthlink .net...[color=blue]
                        > Chad Myers:
                        >[color=green]
                        > > Absolutely. There is simply far too little C# discusson in
                        > > comp.os.linux.a dvocacy, microsoft.publi c.dotnet.genera l,
                        > > comp.lang.java. advocacy, and, of all places especially,[/color][/color]
                        seattle.general .[color=blue]
                        >
                        > don't ask me. I'm still trying
                        > to figure out who 'chad meyers' is
                        > and why he stole my bedroom
                        > slippers.[/color]

                        It's sarcasm.. y'know.. humor. No, I guess you
                        don't know, sadly.

                        I don't know who Chad Meyers is, but if you
                        see him, please remind him to spell his
                        name correctly soas to not make my life
                        any harder than it already is.

                        -c


                        Comment

                        • Tom Shelton

                          #72
                          Re: If .net and j2ee are so great...

                          Chad Myers wrote:[color=blue]
                          > "GreyCloud" <cumulus@mist.c om> wrote in message
                          > news:3F4700B3.6 47056A1@mist.co m...
                          >
                          >[color=green]
                          >>What's so impressive about it? All of these tools are about
                          >>to become useless and obsolete if M$aggotSoft doesn't clean
                          >>up its security problems.
                          >>The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out...[/color]
                          >
                          >
                          > Well, it doesn't seem anyone else can solve the problem
                          > of bugs either. I will say that MS certainly has done
                          > a much better job of it on Win2K3 than before, there is
                          > definately improvement.
                          >
                          > But seriously, it only takes one vulnerability to exploit
                          > a system. Combine that with legions of idiot users who
                          > don't patch their systems, and you have a breeding
                          > ground for worms.
                          >
                          > How is this any different on any other platform?
                          > It just so happens that Windows has a wider distribution
                          > than, say, Linux. But if you put Linux in Windows'
                          > place right now and it'd be like 50x worse because,
                          > so far, to date, RH Linux 9 has had about 50 (+/- a few)
                          > exploits, probably about 20 or so that are remotely
                          > exploitable. I get like 3-4 RHN alerts a week from
                          > them about some critical vulnerability.
                          >
                          > So what would you have MS do?
                          >
                          > The obvious a.) Not create bugs is impossible and therefore
                          > not an option.
                          >
                          > b.) Auto patch people's boxes
                          > c.) Hire legions of trained monkeys to go around and
                          > remind people to patch boxes[/color]

                          Do you think they could send that MSN Butterfly guy? :)

                          Tom Shelton

                          Comment

                          • 43

                            #73
                            Welcome To The (Global) Village

                            Jeff Relf:
                            [color=blue]
                            > Hi 2B , You say :
                            > " With enough PC's closely linked ,
                            > the grid can be networks of wireless workstations ,
                            > sans an external ' Network ' . "
                            >
                            > But the government owns and controls the airwaves .[/color]

                            i can legally broadcast pirate FM short distances.
                            [color=blue]
                            > You're like that prisoner who's always plotting his escape :
                            > a faaaaailure to communicate .[/color]

                            i am not an IP address,
                            i am a free man.

                            Comment

                            • Chad Myers

                              #74
                              Re: Welcome To The (Global) Village


                              "43" <jabailo@earthl ink.net> wrote in message
                              news:pan.2003.0 8.23.05.43.12.7 56316@earthlink .net...[color=blue]
                              > Jeff Relf:
                              >[color=green]
                              > > Hi 2B , You say :
                              > > " With enough PC's closely linked ,
                              > > the grid can be networks of wireless workstations ,
                              > > sans an external ' Network ' . "
                              > >
                              > > But the government owns and controls the airwaves .[/color]
                              >
                              > i can legally broadcast pirate FM short distances.
                              >[color=green]
                              > > You're like that prisoner who's always plotting his escape :
                              > > a faaaaailure to communicate .[/color]
                              >
                              > i am not an IP address,
                              > i am a free man.[/color]

                              With a social security number, drivers license number,
                              Sams Club shopping card number, Mastercard number,
                              license plate number, cookie tracking numbers from
                              239,982,929 different web sites, and last, but
                              not least, a damned DoubleClick I-Know-Everything-You-
                              Do-Read-See-Eat-And-Wipe-Your-Butt-With number

                              -c


                              Comment

                              • Chad Myers

                                #75
                                Re: If .net and j2ee are so great...


                                "Tom Shelton" <tom@mtogden.co m> wrote in message
                                news:U9D1b.101$ E33.122997@news .uswest.net...

                                <SNIP>
                                [color=blue][color=green]
                                > > So what would you have MS do?
                                > >
                                > > The obvious a.) Not create bugs is impossible and therefore
                                > > not an option.
                                > >
                                > > b.) Auto patch people's boxes
                                > > c.) Hire legions of trained monkeys to go around and
                                > > remind people to patch boxes[/color]
                                >
                                > Do you think they could send that MSN Butterfly guy? :)[/color]

                                It'd be like Santa Claus. No human could ever visit
                                all the houses and patch up everything, but one every
                                month or so, the magical MSN Butterfly flies down your
                                chimney and patches all your computers while you
                                sleep safely at night :)

                                -c


                                Comment

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