Postdoc position in program development, analysis and transformation

**Kenny Tilton** · Jul 17 '05, 10:51 PM

Re: Postdoc position in program development, analysis and transformation

Wim Vanhoof wrote:[color=blue]
> Dear all,
>
> I would like to announce that the department of computer
> science of the University of Namur, Belgium, is seeking a
> post-doctoral researcher for a one-year fellowship in the area
> of
>
> (logic-based) program development, analysis and transformation.
>
>
> Candidates should not be older than 35 years and hold a PhD in
> computer science (or equivalent) acquired within the past five
> years at a university outside Belgium.[/color]

Doesn't it matter if their belly buttons are inny's or outy's?

kenneth

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**Paul F. Dietz** · Jul 17 '05, 10:51 PM

Re: Postdoc position in program development, analysis and transformation

Wim Vanhoof wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> Candidates should not be older than 35 years[/color]

Hmm. In the US, I think that would be a violation of federal age
discrimination laws. (But IANAL)

Paul

**Tayssir John Gabbour** · Jul 17 '05, 10:51 PM

Re: Postdoc position in program development, analysis and transformation

"Wim Vanhoof" <wimv74@yahoo.c om> wrote in message news:<107847412 1.503260@news.f undp.ac.be>...[color=blue]
> I would like to announce that the department of computer
> science of the University of Namur, Belgium, is seeking a
> post-doctoral researcher for a one-year fellowship in the area
> of
>
> (logic-based) program development, analysis and transformation.
>
> Candidates should not be older than 35 years and hold a PhD in
> computer science (or equivalent) acquired within the past five
> years at a university outside Belgium.[/color]

I'm not close to 35, but it's good to hear how discriminatory people
are. I mean, that such a thing would be posted without
justification.. . perhaps you are simply the best usenet troll.

Not to mention the sub-month application deadline. Is there something
your department does accomplish correctly?

**Christopher Browne** · Jul 17 '05, 10:51 PM

Re: Postdoc position in program development, analysis and transformation

Oops! "Paul F. Dietz" <dietz@dls.ne t> was seen spray-painting on a wall:[color=blue]
> Wim Vanhoof wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Candidates should not be older than 35 years[/color]
>
> Hmm. In the US, I think that would be a violation of federal age
> discrimination laws. (But IANAL)[/color]

The last time I heard, Belgium was not even on the same continent as
the United States, so it would seem pretty irrelevant what US law has
to say.

Unless you were planning to send in a platoon of M1 Abrams tanks...
--
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**Kees van Reeuwijk** · Jul 17 '05, 10:51 PM

Re: Postdoc position in program development, analysis and transformation

Tayssir John Gabbour <tayss_temp2@ya hoo.com> wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
> > Candidates should not be older than 35 years and hold a PhD in
> > computer science (or equivalent) acquired within the past five
> > years at a university outside Belgium.[/color]
>
> I'm not close to 35, but it's good to hear how discriminatory people
> are. I mean, that such a thing would be posted without
> justification.. . perhaps you are simply the best usenet troll.[/color]

I don't like such restricitions either (especially since I'm a postdoc
older than 35), but they sound like they are externally imposed. My
guess is some funding agency is trying to draw `young blood' from abroad
to Stimulate Belgian Science and Make Belgium Competitive in a HiTech
World.

**Kenny Tilton** · Jul 17 '05, 10:51 PM

Re: Postdoc position in program development, analysis and transformation

Christopher Browne wrote:[color=blue]
> Oops! "Paul F. Dietz" <dietz@dls.ne t> was seen spray-painting on a wall:
>[color=green]
>>Wim Vanhoof wrote:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Candidates should not be older than 35 years[/color]
>>
>>Hmm. In the US, I think that would be a violation of federal age
>>discriminatio n laws. (But IANAL)[/color]
>
>
> The last time I heard, Belgium was not even on the same continent as
> the United States, so it would seem pretty irrelevant what US law has
> to say.[/color]

The relevance is that even a barbaric thug of a country is sophisticated
enough to outlaw such an asinine job requirement.
[color=blue]
>
> Unless you were planning to send in a platoon of M1 Abrams tanks...[/color]

Sure. Belgium /could/ develop WMDs, couldn't they?

kenneth

--

Golden Web Award : le site des meilleurs sites Internet

http://tilton-technology.com

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**Bart Demoen** · Jul 17 '05, 10:51 PM

Re: Postdoc position in program development, analysis and transformation

Kees van Reeuwijk wrote:[color=blue]
> Tayssir John Gabbour <tayss_temp2@ya hoo.com> wrote:
>
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>Candidates should not be older than 35 years and hold a PhD in
>>>computer science (or equivalent) acquired within the past five
>>>years at a university outside Belgium.[/color]
>>
>>I'm not close to 35, but it's good to hear how discriminatory people
>>are. I mean, that such a thing would be posted without
>>justification ... perhaps you are simply the best usenet troll.[/color][/color]

Wim certainly is not.

[color=blue]
> I don't like such restricitions either (especially since I'm a postdoc
> older than 35), but they sound like they are externally imposed. My
> guess is some funding agency is trying to draw `young blood' from abroad
> to Stimulate Belgian Science and Make Belgium Competitive in a HiTech
> World.[/color]

Even if externally imposed, the question remains whether it is legal: some
federal (belgian-flemmish) research funding agency recently lifted the age
barrier completely. Probably not without a reason.

Excluding Belgian PhDs also strikes me as against the European idea that all
within the European 15 or whatever number we will be soon, should be treated equally.
My feeling (as a flemmish Belgian :-) is that this walloon university just doesn't
want any more flemmish people - I am joking: all Belgian universities suffer heavily
from in-breeding. That's probably the reason for this particular requirement.

Cheers

Bart Demoen

**Peter G. Hancock** · Jul 17 '05, 10:51 PM

Re: Postdoc position in program development, analysis andtransformati on

I'm pretty sure this age limit is something to do with academic
funding in the European Union. It's not specifically a Belgian
thing.

I'm 53 myself. Before I can open my front door to pick up my
milk in the morning, I have to equip myself with a large club
to beat off the hordes of prospective employers who are waiting
outside to pounce on me waving job contracts and fountain pens.

Peter Hancock

**Coby Beck** · Jul 17 '05, 10:51 PM

Re: Postdoc position in program development, analysis and transformation

"Kenny Tilton" <ktilton@nyc.rr .com> wrote in message
news:YH32c.1132 2$Wo2.10613@twi ster.nyc.rr.com ...[color=blue][color=green]
> > Unless you were planning to send in a platoon of M1 Abrams tanks...[/color]
>
> Sure. Belgium /could/ develop WMDs, couldn't they?[/color]

I overheard a friend of mine who once knew a Belgian say he thinks they
already have them. I have emailed the Whitehouse, the tanks should be there
shortly...

--
Coby Beck
(remove #\Space "coby 101 @ big pond . com")

**Yoyoma_2** · Jul 17 '05, 10:52 PM

Re: Postdoc position in program development, analysis and transformation

Christopher Browne wrote:[color=blue]
> Oops! "Paul F. Dietz" <dietz@dls.ne t> was seen spray-painting on a wall:
>[color=green]
>>Wim Vanhoof wrote:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Candidates should not be older than 35 years[/color]
>>
>>Hmm. In the US, I think that would be a violation of federal age
>>discriminatio n laws. (But IANAL)[/color]
>
>
> The last time I heard, Belgium was not even on the same continent as
> the United States, so it would seem pretty irrelevant what US law has
> to say.
>[/color]

Never the less it is still grossly improper. I actually question the
validity of this post.

**Remko Troncon** · Jul 17 '05, 10:52 PM

Re: Postdoc position in program development, analysis and transformation

> I actually question the validity of this post.

The post is valid. And the original poster did not make the request up
himself, so there really is not much use in ranting on him either.

cheers,
Remko

**Simon Helsen** · Jul 17 '05, 10:52 PM

Re: Postdoc position in program development, analysis and transformation

On Sat, 6 Mar 2004, Remko Troncon wrote:
[color=blue]
>The post is valid. And the original poster did not make the request up
>himself, so there really is not much use in ranting on him either.[/color]

I agree. I know Wim personally and I cannot imagine he would ever come up
with such a restriction himself. As some people pointed out, there are
good reasons for age restrictions and honestly, I rather have the
information upfront than silently being put off after the interview
because you are too old (which happens everywhere, even the US). Typical
that the loudest criticism comes from people of a country that is
violating civil rights in a rather grotesk way itself. This is getting
off-topic...

Simon

**Jacek Generowicz** · Jul 17 '05, 10:52 PM

Re: Postdoc position in program development, analysis and transformation

Simon Helsen <shelsen@comput er.org> writes:
[color=blue]
> On Sat, 6 Mar 2004, Remko Troncon wrote:
>[color=green]
> >The post is valid. And the original poster did not make the request up
> >himself,[/color][/color]

This sounds like a typical restriction for jobs funded by the European
Union. (And, yes, it wouldn't surprise me if the restriction were
violating some law set by the European Union itself.)

**Jacek Generowicz** · Jul 17 '05, 10:52 PM

Re: Postdoc position in program development, analysis and transformation

Bart Demoen <bmd@cs.kuleuve n.ac.be> writes:
[color=blue]
> Excluding Belgian PhDs also strikes me as against the European idea[/color]

[...]

Actually, this is very typical of jobs funded by the EU
itself. Usually under some "mobility of researchers" scheme, where the
fundamental principle is that the researcher work outside his own
country ... that's the "mobility" part :-)

Postdoc position in program development, analysis and transformation

Postdoc position in program development, analysis and transformation

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