Left-handed pages

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  • Mason A. Clark
    #1

    Left-handed pages

    Can anyone comment on the frequency (prevalence?) of pages
    that are stacked on the left?

    I see it as a concession to 800x600 screens. OK. But is there
    a way of using the full 1024x768 or larger screens without
    forcing horizontal scrolling on smaller screens?

    I'm seeing 17" monitors going to waste.

    Mason C
    Tags: None
    • Beauregard T. Shagnasty
      #2
      Re: Left-handed pages

      Mason A. Clark wrote:[color=blue]
      > Can anyone comment on the frequency (prevalence?) of pages that are
      > stacked on the left?
      >
      > I see it as a concession to 800x600 screens. OK. But is there a
      > way of using the full 1024x768 or larger screens without forcing
      > horizontal scrolling on smaller screens?[/color]

      It's called flexible design. Fluid layouts.

      Like:
      Page not found – BenMeadowcroft.com
      http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/webdev/csstemplates/spider1.html

      [color=blue]
      > I'm seeing 17" monitors going to waste.[/color]

      Only when the developer doesn't know how to do fluid layout.

      --
      -bts
      -This space intentionally left blank.

        Comment

        • Mason A. Clark
          #3
          Re: Left-handed pages

          On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:13:06 GMT, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
          <a.nony.mous@ex ample.invalid> wrote:
          [color=blue]
          >Mason A. Clark wrote:[color=green]
          >> Can anyone comment on the frequency (prevalence?) of pages that are
          >> stacked on the left?
          >>
          >> I see it as a concession to 800x600 screens. OK. But is there a
          >> way of using the full 1024x768 or larger screens without forcing
          >> horizontal scrolling on smaller screens?[/color]
          >
          >It's called flexible design. Fluid layouts.
          >
          >Like:
          >http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/webdev...s/spider1.html
          >[color=green]
          >> I'm seeing 17" monitors going to waste.[/color]
          >
          >Only when the developer doesn't know how to do fluid layout.[/color]

          I like your site and templates. Thanks.

          My problem: the need to keep text narrow for readability but
          place it aesthetically on the screen. This means *not* using
          the full 1024 width. Instead text only 500 wide. It would be
          nice to have it in the center.

          Conflicting thinking he has. Head his not screwed right.

          Mason C

            Comment

            • Els
              #4
              Re: Left-handed pages

              Mason A. Clark wrote:
              [color=blue]
              > On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:13:06 GMT, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
              > <a.nony.mous@ex ample.invalid> wrote:
              >[color=green]
              >>Mason A. Clark wrote:[color=darkred]
              >>> Can anyone comment on the frequency (prevalence?) of pages that are
              >>> stacked on the left?
              >>>
              >>> I see it as a concession to 800x600 screens. OK. But is there a
              >>> way of using the full 1024x768 or larger screens without forcing
              >>> horizontal scrolling on smaller screens?[/color]
              >>
              >>It's called flexible design. Fluid layouts.
              >>
              >>Like:
              >>http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/webdev...s/spider1.html
              >>[color=darkred]
              >>> I'm seeing 17" monitors going to waste.[/color]
              >>
              >>Only when the developer doesn't know how to do fluid layout.[/color]
              >
              > I like your site and templates. Thanks.
              >
              > My problem: the need to keep text narrow for readability but
              > place it aesthetically on the screen. This means *not* using
              > the full 1024 width. Instead text only 500 wide. It would be
              > nice to have it in the center.[/color]

              Set a max-width in ems, not pixels. (You don't want to force someone
              who needs very large fonts to have 3 words per line only)

              Then center the page to avoid the stacking on the left.

              --
              Els http://locusmeus.com/
              Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
              - Renato Russo -

                Comment

                • Beauregard T. Shagnasty
                  #5
                  Re: Left-handed pages

                  Mason A. Clark wrote:[color=blue]
                  > On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:13:06 GMT, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
                  > <a.nony.mous@ex ample.invalid> wrote:[color=green]
                  >> Like:
                  >> http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/webdev...s/spider1.html
                  >>[color=darkred]
                  >>> I'm seeing 17" monitors going to waste.[/color]
                  >>
                  >> Only when the developer doesn't know how to do fluid layout.[/color]
                  >
                  > I like your site and templates. Thanks.[/color]

                  Credit where due: those are Ben Meadowcroft's templates, not mine.
                  [color=blue]
                  > My problem: the need to keep text narrow for readability but place
                  > it aesthetically on the screen. This means *not* using the full
                  > 1024 width. Instead text only 500 wide. It would be nice to have
                  > it in the center.[/color]

                  Then set an appropriate width in ems for a column. Or max-width as Els
                  suggested (not supported in the Microsoft browser component). Here is
                  a page of mine that illustrates max-width, and how IE overlooks it:
                  403 Forbidden
                  http://home.rochester.rr.com/bshagnasty/tips.html


                  But, you just complained of too much unused space in larger monitors.
                  Now you want to restrict the width of the page?
                  [color=blue]
                  > Conflicting thinking he has. Head his not screwed right.[/color]

                  Ah. Yes...

                  --
                  -bts
                  -This space intentionally left blank.

                    Comment

                    • Alan J. Flavell
                      #6
                      Re: Left-handed pages

                      On Sun, 26 Jun 2005, Mason A. Clark wrote:
                      [color=blue]
                      > the full 1024 width. Instead text only 500 wide.[/color]

                      500 what? The only meaningful unit for sizing text in a generic web
                      context is the em unit. CSS size specifications are in general
                      invalid (and required to be ignored by a properly-behaved client
                      agent) in the absence of a proper unit specification. Any client
                      agent which guesses what unit was intended is in a state of sin (MS
                      failed to learn this lesson from their CSS disaster in IE3, but this
                      is only one instance of their disregard for interworking
                      specifications) .
                      [color=blue]
                      > It would be nice to have it in the center.[/color]

                      It depends. Speaking in general terms, without reference to any
                      specific design that you might have in mind, it could be nice (if
                      there's space available) to float some other part of the content into
                      any remaining space. It's nasty, on the other hand, to *force* some
                      other part of the content alongside (as so many present-day pages do)
                      without having any idea of the width of the readers' various viewport
                      sizes, and risking left/right scrolling - something which users report
                      to be extremely irksome.

                        Comment

                        • Gus Richter
                          #7
                          Re: Left-handed pages

                          Mason A. Clark wrote:[color=blue]
                          > On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:13:06 GMT, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
                          > <a.nony.mous@ex ample.invalid> wrote:
                          >
                          >[color=green]
                          >>Mason A. Clark wrote:
                          >>[color=darkred]
                          >>>Can anyone comment on the frequency (prevalence?) of pages that are
                          >>>stacked on the left?
                          >>>
                          >>>I see it as a concession to 800x600 screens. OK. But is there a
                          >>>way of using the full 1024x768 or larger screens without forcing
                          >>>horizontal scrolling on smaller screens?[/color]
                          >>
                          >>It's called flexible design. Fluid layouts.
                          >>
                          >>Like:
                          >>http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/webdev...s/spider1.html
                          >>
                          >>[color=darkred]
                          >>>I'm seeing 17" monitors going to waste.[/color]
                          >>
                          >>Only when the developer doesn't know how to do fluid layout.[/color]
                          >
                          >
                          > I like your site and templates. Thanks.[/color]

                          Just because a thing is published on the web, don't accept it at face
                          value. For example, the "prosandcon s1" and "prosandcon s2" templates are
                          great at 1024x768, but run off the left and right side of the screen at
                          800x600.

                          --
                          Gus

                            Comment

                            • Beauregard T. Shagnasty
                              #8
                              Re: Left-handed pages

                              Gus Richter wrote:[color=blue]
                              > Just because a thing is published on the web, don't accept it at
                              > face value. For example, the "prosandcon s1" and "prosandcon s2"
                              > templates are great at 1024x768, but run off the left and right
                              > side of the screen at 800x600.[/color]

                              Looks like those two pages need some adjustments to the margins and
                              padding. He has a strange -90px margin in there as well.

                              The two- and three-column pages work well, though.

                              --
                              -bts
                              -This space intentionally left blank.

                                Comment

                                • Keith Baird
                                  #9
                                  Re: Left-handed pages

                                  Mason A. Clark <masoncERASETHI S@ix.netcom.com > wrote:[color=blue]
                                  > Can anyone comment on the frequency (prevalence?) of pages
                                  > that are stacked on the left?
                                  > I see it as a concession to 800x600 screens. OK. But is there
                                  > a way of using the full 1024x768 or larger screens without
                                  > forcing horizontal scrolling on smaller screens?
                                  > I'm seeing 17" monitors going to waste.[/color]

                                  I'd say the "stacked left" tendency of most sites is a concession to
                                  users whose browser window is not opened to the full screen width,
                                  rather then monitor size/resolution.

                                  Your complaint assumes window size equals (or should equal) the full
                                  size of the users screen. I *never* do that, can't imagine why anyone
                                  would, and deeply resent the occasional site I visit that employs some
                                  script or other to resize my window.

                                  Aside from typically having multiple windows and multiple applications
                                  open simultaneously, a Web page open to full screen width usually
                                  results in text lines much too long to read with comfort. (Mine is
                                  1280x854, but the principle holds even for 800x600 depending on the
                                  user's preferred onscreen text size.)

                                  --/<eith

                                    Comment

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