styling list for navigation

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  • Jeff
    #1

    styling list for navigation

    What's the current wisdom on styling lists for navigation. What I'd
    like is for:

    links and background colors to be 100% of the width.
    multi-line OK (ie links will wrap). Padding OK. Same width in IE as
    other browsers

    I'm finding that IE differs from conforming browsers in the way it
    calculates width after adding padding (yes, strict doctype.) I have a
    feeling that things have moved on fro the old ListAPart article on this.

    Also, I thought IE6 had no trouble with margin auto on a fixed
    width (with strict), but I'm having trouble with that and have resorted
    to the old text-align hack.

    Jeff
    Tags: None
    • Bergamot
      #2
      Re: styling list for navigation


      Jeff wrote:
      What's the current wisdom on styling lists for navigation.
      Listamatic: one list, many options - Using CSS and a simple list to create radically different list options
      http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/

      I'm finding that IE differs from conforming browsers in the way it
      calculates width after adding padding (yes, strict doctype.)
      You must be triggering quirks mode for that to happen.
      Activating Browser Modes with Doctype
      http://hsivonen.iki.fi/doctype/
      Explains how browsers use doctype sniffing to switch the engine mode between the quirks mode and the standards mode.

      Also, I thought IE6 had no trouble with margin auto on a fixed
      width (with strict),
      It doesn't. You must be triggering quirks mode. Post a URL.

      --
      Berg

        Comment

        • Jeff
          #3
          Re: styling list for navigation

          Bergamot wrote:
          Jeff wrote:
          > What's the current wisdom on styling lists for navigation.
          >
          http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/
          Thanks, I'll give it a read through
          >
          > I'm finding that IE differs from conforming browsers in the way it
          >calculates width after adding padding (yes, strict doctype.)
          >
          You must be triggering quirks mode for that to happen.
          http://hsivonen.iki.fi/doctype/
          Thanks, you seem to have it. The validator complained about the url
          which I had as:

          <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN"
          "http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/strict.dtd">

          Changed to this:

          <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN"
          "http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-html40-19980424/strict.dtd">

          Should I be using 4.1 or is it 4.01?
          >
          > Also, I thought IE6 had no trouble with margin auto on a fixed
          >width (with strict),
          >
          It doesn't. You must be triggering quirks mode. Post a URL.
          I think I have it now, but here, you won't like it though:

          Custom404 • Farmington, NM • CivicEngage
          http://www.fmtn.org/test2/city_government/administration/index.html


          Jeff
          >

            Comment

            • dorayme
              #4
              Re: styling list for navigation

              In article <CYadnXa-g76Lh0bVnZ2dnUV Z_vqdnZ2d@earth link.com>,
              Jeff <jeff@spam_me_n ot.comwrote:
              Should I be using 4.1 or is it 4.01?
              I use

              <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
              "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
              >
              Custom404 • Farmington, NM • CivicEngage
              http://www.fmtn.org/test2/city_government/administration/index.html

              >
              Nice look but a few things you better attend to. I will just mention
              that in this doctype, you don't have /type endings...

              --
              dorayme

                Comment

                • Jeff
                  #5
                  Re: styling list for navigation

                  dorayme wrote:
                  In article <CYadnXa-g76Lh0bVnZ2dnUV Z_vqdnZ2d@earth link.com>,
                  Jeff <jeff@spam_me_n ot.comwrote:
                  >
                  >Should I be using 4.1 or is it 4.01?
                  >
                  I use
                  >
                  <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
                  "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
                  Thanks, I just switched.

                  This whole doctype thing confuses me. It used to be enough to just
                  supply a URL to trigger the standard box model. Now it has to be the
                  right URL. When did that happen?
                  >
                  >http://www.fmtn.org/test2/city_gover...ion/index.html
                  >>
                  Nice look but a few things you better attend to. I will just mention
                  that in this doctype, you don't have /type endings...
                  You've seen most of this before. It has my equal height column code
                  and the standard page layout with inner and outer divs. The outer for
                  setting widths and margins and the inner for setting padding. The CMS
                  blocks have the 6 sides (top left, top right, left, right, bottom left,
                  bottom right), for setting styles if needed. Navigation is styled lists.
                  The CMS is mine which I'm just finishing porting from perl, it's taken a
                  lot longer than I wanted!

                  I suppose I should figure out the character set, but I've lost the
                  head command when I went to XP so I'm not sure what this server is sending.

                  I'm not touching the fonts, I do have some background colors I'll
                  need to change and modify the navigation.

                  I got fired by this client (not the city) at XMAS and he went through
                  a few developers before I got "hired" back. If the client wants fonts in
                  pixels, I'd rather just not get fired again.

                  Jeff
                  >

                    Comment

                    • Bergamot
                      #6
                      Re: styling list for navigation


                      Jeff wrote:
                      Bergamot wrote:
                      >Jeff wrote:
                      >
                      <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN"
                      "http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-html40-19980424/strict.dtd">
                      >
                      Should I be using 4.1 or is it 4.01?
                      4.01
                      The global structure of an HTML document
                      http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#idx-document_type_declaration-3

                      >> Also, I thought IE6 had no trouble with margin auto on a fixed
                      >>width (with strict),
                      >>
                      >It doesn't. You must be triggering quirks mode. Post a URL.
                      >
                      I think I have it now, but here, you won't like it though:
                      >
                      http://www.fmtn.org/test2/city_gover...ion/index.html
                      WEBSITE.WS - Your Internet Address For Life™
                      http://www.bergamotus.ws/screenshots/fmtn.png


                      It's not really a matter of like or dislike - it's a matter of
                      adaptability to variations in browser settings. This design does not
                      adapt to my large default text size. You need to correct that, first by
                      not relying on a fixed font size to keep the layout together, and not
                      setting fixed dimensions in px units for text elements. Set a fixed
                      width if you must but do not set a fixed height, not even in em units.

                      Considering this is a government site, it should be mandatory that it be
                      as accessible as possible. A rigid design is not conducive to that end.

                      Don't set font sizes in px units. If you want to know why, check the
                      Usenet archives coz the subject has been done to death. Set body
                      font-size:100% and adjust only those other elements that really need it,
                      like smaller type for legalese, or larger for headings.

                      --
                      Berg

                        Comment

                        • Jeff
                          #7
                          Re: styling list for navigation

                          Bergamot wrote:
                          Jeff wrote:
                          >Bergamot wrote:
                          >>Jeff wrote:
                          ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN"
                          >"http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-html40-19980424/strict.dtd">
                          >>
                          >Should I be using 4.1 or is it 4.01?
                          >
                          4.01
                          The global structure of an HTML document
                          http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#idx-document_type_declaration-3

                          >
                          >>> Also, I thought IE6 had no trouble with margin auto on a fixed
                          >>>width (with strict),
                          >>It doesn't. You must be triggering quirks mode. Post a URL.
                          > I think I have it now, but here, you won't like it though:
                          >>
                          >http://www.fmtn.org/test2/city_gover...ion/index.html
                          >
                          WEBSITE.WS - Your Internet Address For Life™
                          http://www.bergamotus.ws/screenshots/fmtn.png

                          >
                          It's not really a matter of like or dislike - it's a matter of
                          adaptability to variations in browser settings. This design does not
                          adapt to my large default text size. You need to correct that, first by
                          not relying on a fixed font size to keep the layout together, and not
                          setting fixed dimensions in px units for text elements. Set a fixed
                          width if you must but do not set a fixed height, not even in em units.

                          OK. I've found that I can get rid of the height now that I have a
                          functional doctype. Thanks.
                          >
                          Considering this is a government site, it should be mandatory that it be
                          as accessible as possible. A rigid design is not conducive to that end.
                          >
                          Don't set font sizes in px units. If you want to know why, check the
                          Usenet archives coz the subject has been done to death. Set body
                          font-size:100% and adjust only those other elements that really need it,
                          like smaller type for legalese, or larger for headings.
                          This is all well and good but is beyond what I am able to do. Now, if
                          you read the rest of this thread, you'll see that I've already been
                          fired once. The existing site is table based, the proposed alternative
                          was also and a bit of a nightmare in it's construction.

                          Now, if I wished to get fired again I could implement all the
                          suggestions those in the html groups would make. But since I don't see
                          myself as a fry cook at McDonalds, although I would appreciate the
                          increase in pay, I'll just do the best I can.

                          I've been involved in web work since '95. In all that time I've not
                          had one person ask about accessibility, I do regularly get asked to move
                          this over a couple pixels though or make this one pixel larger.

                          Jeff
                          >

                            Comment

                            • Bergamot
                              #8
                              Re: styling list for navigation


                              Jeff wrote:
                              >
                              I've been involved in web work since '95. In all that time I've not
                              had one person ask about accessibility
                              Um, it's not likely they are even aware of issues like accessibility, so
                              why would you expect them to ask? It's up to you, as the supposed
                              expert, to inform them of such things.

                              --
                              Berg

                                Comment

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