underline artifact

[Haines Brown]

I have a form submit button that has a line under it that I'd like to
remove. Can't find its source. Reduced to its basics, here's the
markup. I added margin-left to reveal the troublesome line.

<style type="text/css">
#subt { margin-left: 40px; }
</style>

<form>
<ins>
<input type="submit" id="sub" />
</ins>
</form>

How do I get rid of this line? I put it on line:

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/sandbox/test.html

--
Haines Brown

[kchayka]

Re: underline artifact

Haines Brown wrote:[color=blue]
> I have a form submit button that has a line under it that I'd like to
> remove.
>
> http://www.hartford-hwp.com/sandbox/test.html[/color]

The line is unrelated to the form, it is applied to the <ins> element.

ins {text-decoration: none}

Keep in mind, though, that different browsers may have different default
styling for <ins>.

--
Reply email address is a bottomless spam bucket.
Please reply to the group so everyone can share.

[Neal]

Re: underline artifact

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:12:00 GMT, Haines Brown
<brownh@teufel. hartford-hwp.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> I have a form submit button that has a line under it that I'd like to
> remove. Can't find its source. Reduced to its basics, here's the
> markup. I added margin-left to reveal the troublesome line.
>
> <style type="text/css">
> #subt { margin-left: 40px; }
> </style>
>
> <form>
> <ins>
> <input type="submit" id="sub" />
> </ins>
> </form>
>
> How do I get rid of this line? I put it on line:
> http://www.hartford-hwp.com/sandbox/test.html
>[/color]

ins is often underlined. What I'm curious about is why you put the button
inside ins? ins implies this content was added after initial publishing of
the page. I can't see how this is correct markup.

If you're just trying to avoid putting input directly into form, use a div
instead.

[Harlan Messinger]

Re: underline artifact

Haines Brown <brownh@teufel. hartford-hwp.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>I have a form submit button that has a line under it that I'd like to
>remove. Can't find its source. Reduced to its basics, here's the
>markup. I added margin-left to reveal the troublesome line.
>
> <style type="text/css">
> #subt { margin-left: 40px; }
> </style>
>
> <form>
> <ins>
> <input type="submit" id="sub" />
> </ins>
> </form>
>
>How do I get rid of this line? I put it on line:
>http://www.hartford-hwp.com/sandbox/test.html[/color]

If you don't know what INS is or what its treatment in the browser is
likely to be, why are you using it?

--
Harlan Messinger
Remove the first dot from my e-mail address.
Veuillez ôter le premier point de mon adresse de courriel.

[Haines Brown]

Re: underline artifact

Neal <neal413@yahoo. com> writes:
[color=blue]
> On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:12:00 GMT, Haines Brown
> <brownh@teufel. hartford-hwp.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
> > I have a form submit button that has a line under it that I'd like to
> > remove. Can't find its source. Reduced to its basics, here's the
> > markup. I added margin-left to reveal the troublesome line.[/color][/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
> >
> > How do I get rid of this line? I put it on line:
> > http://www.hartford-hwp.com/sandbox/test.html
> >[/color]
>
> ins is often underlined. What I'm curious about is why you put the
> button inside ins? ins implies this content was added after initial
> publishing of the page. I can't see how this is correct markup.
>
> If you're just trying to avoid putting input directly into form, use a
> div instead.[/color]

My reply to the group seems to have gone astray. In short, the <ins>
was originally an effort to get W3C validation. I change to <div> and
that works fine.

Thanks.

--
Haines Brown

[oo-]

Re: underline artifact


"Harlan Messinger" <hmessinger.rem ovethis@comcast .net> wrote in message
news:pe46m0hqqu hjgqie52q7etd0l nl5kah5aj@4ax.c om...[color=blue]
> Haines Brown <brownh@teufel. hartford-hwp.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>I have a form submit button that has a line under it that I'd like to
>>remove. Can't find its source. Reduced to its basics, here's the
>>markup. I added margin-left to reveal the troublesome line.
>>
>> <style type="text/css">
>> #subt { margin-left: 40px; }
>> </style>
>>
>> <form>
>> <ins>
>> <input type="submit" id="sub" />
>> </ins>
>> </form>
>>
>>How do I get rid of this line? I put it on line:
>>http://www.hartford-hwp.com/sandbox/test.html[/color]
>
> If you don't know what INS is or what its treatment in the browser is
> likely to be, why are you using it?[/color]

I suspect its because the w3c validator has flagged up an error saying that
the <input /> needs to be contained within something else and will have
listed a whole load of useless tags such as <ins>, <del> along with the more
useful <fieldset>.
[color=blue]
>
> --
> Harlan Messinger
> Remove the first dot from my e-mail address.
> Veuillez ôter le premier point de mon adresse de courriel.[/color]

[Neal]

Re: underline artifact

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:12:20 +0100, oo- <oo-@spam.doubleone gative.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "Harlan Messinger" <hmessinger.rem ovethis@comcast .net> wrote in message
> news:pe46m0hqqu hjgqie52q7etd0l nl5kah5aj@4ax.c om...[color=green]
>> If you don't know what INS is or what its treatment in the browser is
>> likely to be, why are you using it?[/color]
>
> I suspect its because the w3c validator has flagged up an error saying
> that
> the <input /> needs to be contained within something else and will have
> listed a whole load of useless tags such as <ins>, <del> along with the
> more
> useful <fieldset>.[/color]

As the problem has been resolved, this is largely academic. But if the
validator is suggesting ins as useful here, it is in error.

According to the HTML 4.01 DTD, FORM can contain:

script
p
dl
div
noscript
blockquote
hr
table
fieldset
address
h1-h6
ul
ol
pre

Fieldset might be appropriate, but any of the above is better than ins,
which should NOT validate according to the DTD. So why ins was chosen is a
bit mysterious to me.

[Johannes Koch]

Re: underline artifact

Neal wrote:[color=blue]
> As the problem has been resolved, this is largely academic. But if the
> validator is suggesting ins as useful here, it is in error.[/color]

Is it?
[color=blue]
> According to the HTML 4.01 DTD, FORM can contain:
>
> script[/color]
[...][color=blue]
>
> Fieldset might be appropriate, but any of the above is better than ins,
> which should NOT validate according to the DTD.[/color]

The question is not "Which child is allowed for form?" but "Which parent
is allowed for input?"

--
Johannes Koch
In te domine speravi; non confundar in aeternum.
(Te Deum, 4th cent.)

[Harlan Messinger]

Re: underline artifact


"Johannes Koch" <koch@w3develop ment.de> wrote in message
news:2sidv4F1li 86dU1@uni-berlin.de...[color=blue]
> Neal wrote:[color=green]
> > As the problem has been resolved, this is largely academic. But if the
> > validator is suggesting ins as useful here, it is in error.[/color]
>
> Is it?
>[color=green]
> > According to the HTML 4.01 DTD, FORM can contain:
> >
> > script[/color]
> [...][color=green]
> >
> > Fieldset might be appropriate, but any of the above is better than ins,
> > which should NOT validate according to the DTD.[/color]
>
> The question is not "Which child is allowed for form?" but "Which parent
> is allowed for input?"[/color]

When you're inserting a level between the FORM element and the INPUT
element, the element chosen has to be included in the response to BOTH
questions.

[Johannes Koch]

Re: underline artifact

Harlan Messinger wrote:[color=blue]
> "Johannes Koch" <koch@w3develop ment.de> wrote in message
> news:2sidv4F1li 86dU1@uni-berlin.de...
>[color=green]
>>Neal wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>As the problem has been resolved, this is largely academic. But if the
>>>validator is suggesting ins as useful here, it is in error.[/color]
>>
>>Is it?
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>According to the HTML 4.01 DTD, FORM can contain:
>>>
>>>script[/color]
>>
>>[...]
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Fieldset might be appropriate, but any of the above is better than ins,
>>>which should NOT validate according to the DTD.[/color]
>>
>>The question is not "Which child is allowed for form?" but "Which parent
>>is allowed for input?"[/color]
>
>
> When you're inserting a level[/color]

one? yes. more than one? no.
[color=blue]
> between the FORM element and the INPUT
> element, the element chosen has to be included in the response to BOTH
> questions.[/color]

No, ins cannot be a child, but may be a descendant of form.

form
|-p
|-ins
|-input

is valid
--
Johannes Koch
In te domine speravi; non confundar in aeternum.
(Te Deum, 4th cent.)

[Harlan Messinger]

Re: underline artifact


"Johannes Koch" <koch@w3develop ment.de> wrote in message
news:2sigm1F1l5 2b1U1@uni-berlin.de...[color=blue]
> Harlan Messinger wrote:[color=green]
> > "Johannes Koch" <koch@w3develop ment.de> wrote in message
> > news:2sidv4F1li 86dU1@uni-berlin.de...
> >[color=darkred]
> >>Neal wrote:
> >>
> >>>As the problem has been resolved, this is largely academic. But if the
> >>>validator is suggesting ins as useful here, it is in error.
> >>
> >>Is it?
> >>
> >>
> >>>According to the HTML 4.01 DTD, FORM can contain:
> >>>
> >>>script
> >>
> >>[...]
> >>
> >>>Fieldset might be appropriate, but any of the above is better than ins,
> >>>which should NOT validate according to the DTD.
> >>
> >>The question is not "Which child is allowed for form?" but "Which parent
> >>is allowed for input?"[/color]
> >
> >
> > When you're inserting a level[/color]
>
> one? yes. more than one? no.
>[color=green]
> > between the FORM element and the INPUT
> > element, the element chosen has to be included in the response to BOTH
> > questions.[/color]
>
> No, ins cannot be a child, but may be a descendant of form.[/color]

Irrelevant,sinc e we were all talking about the user's situation where it was
a child of form.

However, I just discovered I was wrong, because I hadn't understood a
particular SGML construction. The

+(INS|DEL)

inside the BODY element declaration says that INS and DEL can appear
anywhere inside the body. So INS can appear directly inside a FORM.

[Harlan Messinger]

Re: underline artifact


"Neal" <neal413@yahoo. com> wrote in message
news:opsfgay7fk 6v6656@news.ind ividual.net...[color=blue]
> On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:12:20 +0100, oo- <oo-@spam.doubleone gative.com>
> wrote:
>[color=green]
> >
> > "Harlan Messinger" <hmessinger.rem ovethis@comcast .net> wrote in message
> > news:pe46m0hqqu hjgqie52q7etd0l nl5kah5aj@4ax.c om...[color=darkred]
> >> If you don't know what INS is or what its treatment in the browser is
> >> likely to be, why are you using it?[/color]
> >
> > I suspect its because the w3c validator has flagged up an error saying
> > that
> > the <input /> needs to be contained within something else and will have
> > listed a whole load of useless tags such as <ins>, <del> along with the
> > more
> > useful <fieldset>.[/color]
>
> As the problem has been resolved, this is largely academic. But if the
> validator is suggesting ins as useful here, it is in error.
>
> According to the HTML 4.01 DTD, FORM can contain:[/color]
[list of elements excluding INS and DEL snipped]
[color=blue]
> Fieldset might be appropriate, but any of the above is better than ins,
> which should NOT validate according to the DTD.[/color]

You're overlooking

<!ELEMENT BODY O O (%block;|SCRIPT )+ +(INS|DEL) -- document body -->

where the + in front of (INS|DEL) is an inclusion exception indicator: it
means that either INS or DEL can appear anywhere inside a BODY element at
any level.

[Neal]

Re: underline artifact

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:47:55 -0400, Harlan Messinger
<h.messinger@co mcast.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "Neal" <neal413@yahoo. com> wrote in message
> news:opsfgay7fk 6v6656@news.ind ividual.net...[color=green]
>> According to the HTML 4.01 DTD, FORM can contain:[/color]
>
>[list of elements excluding INS and DEL snipped]
>[color=green]
>> Fieldset might be appropriate, but any of the above is better than ins,
>> which should NOT validate according to the DTD.[/color]
>
> You're overlooking
>
> <!ELEMENT BODY O O (%block;|SCRIPT )+ +(INS|DEL) -- document body -->
>
> where the + in front of (INS|DEL) is an inclusion exception indicator: it
> means that either INS or DEL can appear anywhere inside a BODY element at
> any level.[/color]

Well ain't that tricky.