Without Microsoft font specs x-small is bigger than small for Verdana

**C A Upsdell** · Jul 20 '05, 11:16 PM

Re: Without Microsoft font specs x-small is bigger than small for Verdana

"Randall Parker" <techiepundit@f uturepundit.com > wrote in message
news:d7ce4c24.0 407161503.68b60 64a@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
> Using IE 6.x (whatever is the latest) on Windows 2000.
>
> For these two CSS definitions if I remove the 2 lines that have the
> "mso-" font family definitions (mso-fareast-font-family, and
> mso-bidi-font-family) then the "SmallerTex t" assigned as a class to a
> div tag produces larger text than the "SmallerTex t2". So x-small is
> treated as a bigger font size than plain old small.
>
> How the heck is one supposed to know all the MS stuff one needs to add
> to CSS to make CSS behave the way it is supposed to in IE?
>
> Also, x-small, small and medium are bigger in IE than in Mozilla. How
> to adjust for this to make pages look the same on both browsers and
> yet still use relative font sizes?
>
>
> div.SmallerText
> {color:#000;
> margin:0in;
> margin-bottom:.0001pt;
> punctuation-wrap:simple;
> text-autospace:none;
> font-size:x-small;
> font-family:"Verdana ,Arial";
> mso-fareast-font-family:"Verdana ,Arial";
> mso-bidi-font-family:"Verdana ,Arial";}
> div.SmallerText 2
> {color:#000;
> margin:0in;
> margin-bottom:.0001pt;
> punctuation-wrap:simple;
> text-autospace:none;
> font-size:small;
> font-family:"Verdana ,Arial";
> mso-fareast-font-family:"Verdana ,Arial";
> mso-bidi-font-family:"Verdana ,Arial";}[/color]

A few things,

First, your CSS is not valid. Run it through the CSS validator. E.g., in
font-family:"Verdana ,Arial", drop the quotes: there is no font named
"Verdana,Arial" .

Second, mso-fareast-font-family and mso-bidi-font-family are not valid CSS.
I don't know what IE will do with this, but other browsers will ignore it.

Third, punctuation-wrap is also not valid CSS. Neither is text-autospace.

Fourth, font sizing is different with IE6 than it is with IE 4 or IE5. You
should code around this.

I suggest that you review the CSS specs and go back to the drawing board.

**Randall Parker** · Jul 20 '05, 11:16 PM

Re: Without Microsoft font specs x-small is bigger than small for Verdana

To answer my own question about font sizes: The problem has to do with
DOCTYPE. MS Word's export of HTML doesn't appear to specify the
DOCTYPE. If IE doesn't find a DOCTYPE at the type it goes into its own
quirky extended different way of interpreting CSS.

I put this DOCTYPE at the top of the document and then began fixing
the CSS and HTML to be more consistent in hehavior across browser:
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">

techiepundit@fu turepundit.com (Randall Parker) wrote in message news:<d7ce4c24. 0407161503.68b6 064a@posting.go ogle.com>...[color=blue]
> Using IE 6.x (whatever is the latest) on Windows 2000.
>
> For these two CSS definitions if I remove the 2 lines that have the
> "mso-" font family definitions (mso-fareast-font-family, and
> mso-bidi-font-family) then the "SmallerTex t" assigned as a class to a
> div tag produces larger text than the "SmallerTex t2". So x-small is
> treated as a bigger font size than plain old small.
>
> How the heck is one supposed to know all the MS stuff one needs to add
> to CSS to make CSS behave the way it is supposed to in IE?
>
> Also, x-small, small and medium are bigger in IE than in Mozilla. How
> to adjust for this to make pages look the same on both browsers and
> yet still use relative font sizes?[/color]

**Steve Pugh** · Jul 20 '05, 11:16 PM

Re: Without Microsoft font specs x-small is bigger than small for Verdana

techiepundit@fu turepundit.com (Randall Parker) wrote:
[color=blue]
>To answer my own question about font sizes: The problem has to do with
>DOCTYPE. MS Word's export of HTML doesn't appear to specify the
>DOCTYPE. If IE doesn't find a DOCTYPE at the type it goes into its own
>quirky extended different way of interpreting CSS.[/color]

In quirks mode IE treats CSS font-size: small; as being equivalent to
the browser default. In standards mode it treats CSS font-size:
medium; as being equivalent to the browser default.

Also note that some doctypes trigger quirks mode, so it's not just a
case on including a doctype, but a case of including the right one.
[color=blue]
>I put this DOCTYPE at the top of the document and then began fixing
>the CSS and HTML to be more consistent in hehavior across browser:
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
>"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">[/color]

You should only use that doctype on a frameset page. As IE is
incapable of displaying the contents of <noframes> there is no way
that you could have seen the text sizing issue. A non-frameset page
(even one that is displayed inside a frameset) should use a different
doctype.

Steve

--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net > <http://steve.pugh.net/>

**Brian** · Jul 20 '05, 11:16 PM

Re: Without Microsoft font specs x-small is bigger than small forVerdana

Steve Pugh wrote:
[color=blue]
> IE is incapable of displaying the contents of <noframes>[/color]

Surely it can handle <noframes>!

--
Brian (remove ".invalid" to email me)

Home - TS McHughs Irish Pub & Restaurant

http://www.tsmchughs.com/

**Steve Pugh** · Jul 20 '05, 11:16 PM

Re: Without Microsoft font specs x-small is bigger than small for Verdana

Brian <usenet3@juliet remblay.com.inv alid> wrote:[color=blue]
>Steve Pugh wrote:
>[color=green]
>> IE is incapable of displaying the contents of <noframes>[/color]
>
>Surely it can handle <noframes>![/color]

Really? How do you configure IE to display the <noframes> content
instead of the frames? (IIRC Mac IE 3 had such an option but no other
version of IE has). If you can't then my original point, that the OP
couldn't have observed the font sizing issue in a page correctly using
a frameset doctype stands.

Steve

--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net > <http://steve.pugh.net/>

**Christoph Paeper** · Jul 20 '05, 11:16 PM

Re: Without Microsoft font specs x-small is bigger than small for Verdana

Am Sat, 17 Jul 2004 16:06:06 +0100 schrieb Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net >:[color=blue]
> Brian <usenet3@juliet remblay.com.inv alid> wrote:[color=green]
>> Steve Pugh wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> IE is incapable of displaying the contents of <noframes>[/color]
>>
>> Surely it can handle <noframes>![/color][/color]

Well, it handles it correctly by not displaying it, when there are frames
it can use. OTOH it also erronously does not display the content of
'noframes', when there are no frames.
[color=blue]
> Really? How do you configure IE to display the <noframes> content
> instead of the frames?[/color]

Funny,

frame {display: none}

more or less works, but

noframes, noframes * {display: block}

does not.

--
A bus station is where a bus stops,
a train station is where a train stops,
on my desk I have a work station...

**Brian** · Jul 20 '05, 11:16 PM

Re: Without Microsoft font specs x-small is bigger than small forVerdana

Steve Pugh wrote:[color=blue]
> Brian <usenet3@juliet remblay.com.inv alid> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Steve Pugh wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>IE is incapable of displaying the contents of <noframes>[/color]
>>
>>Surely it can handle <noframes>![/color]
>
> Really? How do you configure IE to display the <noframes> content
> instead of the frames?[/color]

After reinserting my brain into my head, I see that you are of course
correct.

--
Brian (remove ".invalid" to email me)

Home - TS McHughs Irish Pub & Restaurant

http://www.tsmchughs.com/

Without Microsoft font specs x-small is bigger than small for Verdana

Without Microsoft font specs x-small is bigger than small for Verdana

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