Should tables be completely elimanated?

**Neal** · Jul 20 '05, 10:58 PM

Re: Should tables be completely elimanated?

On 21 Jun 2004 06:23:56 -0700, David Dimmer <david@fyin.com > wrote:
[color=blue]
> So I'm trying to play w/ CSS on various sites and let me tell you the
> browser compatibility is getting ridiculous.
>
> Check out this in a Mozilla browser and then in IE; its night and DAY!
> Should I be using tables for the menu?
> http://www.moxiessupperclub.com (Basic Supper Club)
>
> Fields I'm formatting are MenuItem, Description, QTY and Price. If
> this were a table I would be done already, but I'm trying to pull it
> off in CSS! Any tips?
>
> Any idea, its valid xHTML and CSS.[/color]

I think a table is semantically correct here. My personal test is whether
there's something in common with items in every row, and something in
common with items in every column. A menu with prices sure fits the bill.
"Seafood", "Friday", these can even be captions.

What may be causing the problem - and I can't spend much time on it now,
so this is a guess - is that you're floating spans within list items. I
think this is wreaking havoc on the UAs. IE is the only one which is
displaying it properly - which is a hint that there's something wrong!

But in this case, a table is fine and probably the best markup.

**Steve Pugh** · Jul 20 '05, 10:58 PM

Re: Should tables be completely elimanated?

david@fyin.com (David Dimmer) wrote:
[color=blue]
>So I'm trying to play w/ CSS on various sites and let me tell you the
>browser compatibility is getting ridiculous.
>
>Check out this in a Mozilla browser and then in IE; its night and DAY!
> Should I be using tables for the menu?
>http://www.moxiessupperclub.com (Basic Supper Club)[/color]

Yes, IE gets it all wrong but just happens to look better.
[color=blue]
>Fields I'm formatting are MenuItem, Description, QTY and Price. If
>this were a table I would be done already, but I'm trying to pull it
>off in CSS! Any tips?[/color]

It's logically a table so use a <table>.

Steve

--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net > <http://steve.pugh.net/>

**Christoph Paeper** · Jul 20 '05, 10:59 PM

Re: Should tables be completely elimanated?

*Steve Pugh* <steve@pugh.net >:[color=blue]
> david@fyin.com (David Dimmer) wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Fields I'm formatting are MenuItem, Description, QTY and Price.[/color]
>
> It's logically a table so use a <table>.[/color]

ACK.
Every other day this topic comes up in ciwas---where do all these people get
the idea from that *all* tables had to be avoided? Is there some very
popular misguiding book or website out there?

--
"The scientific name for an animal that doesn't
either run from or fight its enemies is lunch."
Michael Friedman

**David Dimmer** · Jul 20 '05, 10:59 PM

Re: Should tables be completely elimanated?

Thank you everyone for you help. I am planning to convert it to a
table, and place a css style on the td tag to describe how to display
the data.

Sincerely,
David Dimmer

President of Fyin Inc.
B: 414.298.3009
W: http://www.fyin.com

..:: Developing highly visible and creatively branded websites since
1998 ::.

Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net > wrote in message news:<2erdd0tp1 jg0jngii8i0i51u be9epqpqfd@4ax. com>...[color=blue]
> david@fyin.com (David Dimmer) wrote:
>[color=green]
> >So I'm trying to play w/ CSS on various sites and let me tell you the
> >browser compatibility is getting ridiculous.
> >
> >Check out this in a Mozilla browser and then in IE; its night and DAY!
> > Should I be using tables for the menu?
> >http://www.moxiessupperclub.com (Basic Supper Club)[/color]
>
> Yes, IE gets it all wrong but just happens to look better.
>[color=green]
> >Fields I'm formatting are MenuItem, Description, QTY and Price. If
> >this were a table I would be done already, but I'm trying to pull it
> >off in CSS! Any tips?[/color]
>
> It's logically a table so use a <table>.
>
> Steve[/color]

**Jon Trelfa** · Jul 20 '05, 10:59 PM

Re: Should tables be completely elimanated?

Christoph Paeper wrote:
[color=blue]
> ACK.
> Every other day this topic comes up in ciwas---where do all these people get
> the idea from that *all* tables had to be avoided? Is there some very
> popular misguiding book or website out there?
>[/color]

If you read through many of the responses to such questions, you'll find
that there are MANY folks that post to this NG that seem to abhor the
use of tables for anything other than tabular data. There have even
been some flame wars over it.

Jon

**Steve Pugh** · Jul 20 '05, 10:59 PM

Re: Should tables be completely elimanated?

Jon Trelfa <treefrog@comca st.net> wrote:[color=blue]
>Christoph Paeper wrote:
>[color=green]
>> ACK.
>> Every other day this topic comes up in ciwas---where do all these people get
>> the idea from that *all* tables had to be avoided? Is there some very
>> popular misguiding book or website out there?[/color]
>
>If you read through many of the responses to such questions, you'll find
>that there are MANY folks that post to this NG that seem to abhor the
>use of tables for anything other than tabular data. There have even
>been some flame wars over it.[/color]

Yes. However. The OP's example clearly was tabular data. Hence it's a
fair question to ask where people are getting the idea that _all_
tables, even ones used for tabular data, should be avoided.

Steve

--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net > <http://steve.pugh.net/>

**Jon Trelfa** · Jul 20 '05, 10:59 PM

Re: Should tables be completely elimanated?

Steve Pugh wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>>
>>If you read through many of the responses to such questions, you'll find
>>that there are MANY folks that post to this NG that seem to abhor the
>>use of tables for anything other than tabular data. There have even
>>been some flame wars over it.[/color]
>
>
> Yes. However. The OP's example clearly was tabular data. Hence it's a
> fair question to ask where people are getting the idea that _all_
> tables, even ones used for tabular data, should be avoided.
>
> Steve
>[/color]

I agree...but...
If you lurk here for only a short while, it would seem that some
discussions seem to say *all tables must be avoided*. If you read a bit
longer, it becomes clearer as to the purpose of tables. I got the
impression the way the question was asked that the person hasn't been
lurking very long and may have only caught a few threads regarding tables.

Good NG, BTW...very good source of help :)

Jon

Should tables be completely elimanated?

Should tables be completely elimanated?

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