quirks mode and IE5 vs IE6

[Jeff Thies]

Well, it's probably past time for me to regularly include doctype in my
html.

What is quirks mode and how do I avoid it. I seem to recall a specific url
is required.

What is the suggested doctype for html4.0 transitional? That's probably what
I'm writing.

Also, what's the differences between IE5(windows) and IE6?

I don't have IE6, but usually what I write looks very similar in IE5, Opera7
and NS7.1. Sometimes IE5 mac looks a bit different although Safari is good.
What do I need to worry about in IE6?

Cheers,
Jeff

[Neal]

Re: quirks mode and IE5 vs IE6

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 05:35:31 GMT, Jeff Thies <nospam@nospam. net> wrote:

[color=blue]
> What is the suggested doctype for html4.0 transitional? That's probably
> what
> I'm writing.[/color]

See http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/...l#version-info

[David Dorward]

Re: quirks mode and IE5 vs IE6

Jeff Thies wrote:[color=blue]
> Well, it's probably past time for me to regularly include doctype in my
> html.[/color]

Umm... very much so.
[color=blue]
> What is quirks mode and how do I avoid it. I seem to recall a specific url
> is required.[/color]

Quirks mode is when a browser emulates the stupid mistakes of its
predecessors so code written to love their errors doesn't fall apart.

http://gutfeldt.ch/matthias/articles/doctypeswitch.html

[color=blue]
> What is the suggested doctype for html4.0 transitional? That's probably
> what I'm writing.[/color]

HTML 4.01 Transitional isn't suggested, for modern webpages HTML 4.01 Strict
is the most apropriate.

http://www.w3.org/QA/2002/04/valid-dtd-list.html

[color=blue]
> Also, what's the differences between IE5(windows) and IE6?[/color]

IE6 has fewer bugs and fewer massive secuity holes.


--
David Dorward <http://dorward.me.uk/>

[Arne]

Re: quirks mode and IE5 vs IE6


"David Dorward" <dorward@yahoo. com> skrev i meddelandet
news:c0fbnj$pae $2$830fa795@new s.demon.co.uk.. .[color=blue]
> Jeff Thies wrote:[color=green]
> > Also, what's the differences between IE5(windows) and IE6?[/color]
>
> IE6 has fewer bugs and fewer massive secuity holes.
>[/color]

One great benefit is that you can disable receving HTML-formated mails
and news postings from those who still send that.
The body contain only the text.

--
/Arne

[Martin Honnen]

Re: quirks mode and IE5 vs IE6



Jeff Thies wrote:

[color=blue]
> What is quirks mode and how do I avoid it. I seem to recall a specific url
> is required.[/color]
[color=blue]
> Also, what's the differences between IE5(windows) and IE6?[/color]

See

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnie60/html/cssenhancements.asp

for details on IE6 and its two different rendering modes
--

Martin Honnen

http://JavaScript.FAQTs.com/

[DU]

Re: quirks mode and IE5 vs IE6

Jeff Thies wrote:[color=blue]
> Well, it's probably past time for me to regularly include doctype in my
> html.
>
> What is quirks mode and how do I avoid it. I seem to recall a specific url
> is required.
>
> What is the suggested doctype for html4.0 transitional? That's probably what
> I'm writing.
>
> Also, what's the differences between IE5(windows) and IE6?
>[/color]

MSIE 5.x for windows does not implement any kind of differentiated
rendering mode. The good news is that with time people do upgrade their
browser. MSIE 6 for windows beta 1 was released in march 2001 IIRC.
[color=blue]
> I don't have IE6, but usually what I write looks very similar in IE5, Opera7
> and NS7.1. Sometimes IE5 mac looks a bit different although Safari is good.
> What do I need to worry about in IE6?
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff
>
>[/color]

I recommend you always use a strict definition because in all browsers
supporting standards compliant rendering mode, a doctype declaration
with the strict definition always trigger standards compliant rendering
mode.

DOCTYPEs that will trigger standards compliant behavior in Opera 7, IE6
for Windows, and Netscape 7:

http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/doctype/

There are other related benefits to using a strict definition.
The most important benefits you get when triggering standards compliant
rendering mode in MSIE 6 for windows are
- correct implementation of the CSS1 box model: MSIE 6 in backward
compatible rendering mode still incorrectly implements the CSS1 box model
- faster parsing and faster rendering of pages (assuming your markup is
error-free: best is to use the W3C validator)
- rendering is closer, more consistent to what other W3C web standards
compliant browsers render and this should stay that way or get further
improved with time as browser manufacturers are aiming to support web
standards and they work on eradicating browser bugs

DU

[Andrés Sedano]

Re: quirks mode and IE5 vs IE6

Jeff Thies wrote:
[color=blue]
> Well, it's probably past time for me to regularly include doctype in my
> html.
>
> What is quirks mode and how do I avoid it. I seem to recall a specific url
> is required.
>
> What is the suggested doctype for html4.0 transitional? That's probably what
> I'm writing.
>
> Also, what's the differences between IE5(windows) and IE6?
>
> I don't have IE6, but usually what I write looks very similar in IE5, Opera7
> and NS7.1. Sometimes IE5 mac looks a bit different although Safari is good.
> What do I need to worry about in IE6?
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff
>
>[/color]

May I ask you why don't you use IE6? When I have to use IE5 in some
client's office, I suffer a lot. It renders incorrectly lots of pages
and I can't stand that... I can't understand why people doesn't use IE6
if it's safer, faster, more compatible with standards...

So, please, can you tell me why are you still using IE5?

Or, if anyone has reasons, I'd greatly appreciate if you share them with me.

Cheers,
Andrés

[Jeff Thies]

Re: quirks mode and IE5 vs IE6

<snip>
[color=blue]
> May I ask you why don't you use IE6? When I have to use IE5 in some
> client's office, I suffer a lot. It renders incorrectly lots of pages
> and I can't stand that...[/color]

Gee, could that be it?

I can't author something that may be badly broken in a mainstream browser,
even if it is that browsers fault.
[color=blue]
>I can't understand why people doesn't use IE6
> if it's safer, faster, more compatible with standards...[/color]

By the same token, why use IE at all? If I'm browsing for my own purposes, I
don't use IE.
[color=blue]
>
> So, please, can you tell me why are you still using IE5?[/color]

Because my clients would go balistic if 18% of their audience had serious
problems with their site and I wasn't even aware of it! It's really the
difference between authoring for yourself, and authoring for a living. If
site appearance is important, and it is for my clients, this goes triple.

I'm just glad I don't have to support NS4 anymore!

Cheers,
Jeff
[color=blue]
> Or, if anyone has reasons, I'd greatly appreciate if you share them with[/color]
me.[color=blue]
>
> Cheers,
> Andrés[/color]

[David Dorward]

Re: quirks mode and IE5 vs IE6

Jeff Thies wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> So, please, can you tell me why are you still using IE5?[/color]
>
> Because my clients would go balistic if 18% of their audience had serious
> problems with their site and I wasn't even aware of it![/color]

That is a good reason to test pages in IE5.

It leaves two questions. Why do you not test your pages in Internet Explorer
6? Why do you not use IE6 for normal use (or better yet, a decent browser
like FireFox)?

--
David Dorward <http://dorward.me.uk/>

[Eric Bohlman]

Re: quirks mode and IE5 vs IE6

"Jeff Thies" <nospam@nospam. net> wrote in
news:7DnXb.4391 $W74.669@newsre ad1.news.atl.ea rthlink.net:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> So, please, can you tell me why are you still using IE5?[/color]
>
> Because my clients would go balistic if 18% of their audience had
> serious problems with their site and I wasn't even aware of it! It's
> really the difference between authoring for yourself, and authoring
> for a living. If site appearance is important, and it is for my
> clients, this goes triple.[/color]

And it's important to remember that many viewers may be using IE5 because
it's what's installed on the machine that they're using and because the
machine isn't their *personal* machine, they *can't* upgrade the browser.

[Alan J. Flavell]

Re: quirks mode and IE5 vs IE6

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Eric Bohlman wrote:
[color=blue]
> And it's important to remember that many viewers may be using IE5 because
> it's what's installed on the machine that they're using and because the
> machine isn't their *personal* machine, they *can't* upgrade the browser.[/color]

Sure. But conversely, it may be important to remember that there will
be viewers using IE6 because _that's_ what's installed on their
machine. So designing a page "to" the bugs of IE5 (which might have
been corrected in later versions, but if the author doesn't have one
then he won't necessarily know that) is not the answer, either.

Unfortunately, it's a lot of fuss to maintain more than one version of
Win IE. In fact, due to security concerns we get into trouble if we
run old versions of IE on our network: updating to the latest MS
fixes isn't an option - it's a requirement, in this context.

[Andrés Sedano]

Re: quirks mode and IE5 vs IE6

Alan J. Flavell wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Eric Bohlman wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>And it's important to remember that many viewers may be using IE5 because
>>it's what's installed on the machine that they're using and because the
>>machine isn't their *personal* machine, they *can't* upgrade the browser.[/color]
>
>
> Sure. But conversely, it may be important to remember that there will
> be viewers using IE6 because _that's_ what's installed on their
> machine. So designing a page "to" the bugs of IE5 (which might have
> been corrected in later versions, but if the author doesn't have one
> then he won't necessarily know that) is not the answer, either.
>
> Unfortunately, it's a lot of fuss to maintain more than one version of
> Win IE. In fact, due to security concerns we get into trouble if we
> run old versions of IE on our network: updating to the latest MS
> fixes isn't an option - it's a requirement, in this context.[/color]

Actually is very easy to have three versions of IE in the same Windows
installation (I have 5.01, 5.5 and 6.0). I had a page where it was
explained and had direct links to standalone IE5.01 and 5.5... I'll try
to find it and will post it later.

[Andrés Sedano]

Re: quirks mode and IE5 vs IE6

Here it is: http://www.skyzyx.com/archives/000094.php

Enjoy it ;)

[Jeff Thies]

Re: quirks mode and IE5 vs IE6


"Andrés Sedano" <asedano@ya.com > wrote in message
news:c0lrat$fsq $2@news.ya.com. ..[color=blue]
> Here it is: http://www.skyzyx.com/archives/000094.php
>
> Enjoy it ;)[/color]

I would, if I didn't get this:

Parse error: parse error in /home/skyzyxco/public_html/refer/refer.php on
line 37

[Jeff Thies]

Re: quirks mode and IE5 vs IE6

> > And it's important to remember that many viewers may be using IE5
because[color=blue][color=green]
> > it's what's installed on the machine that they're using and because the
> > machine isn't their *personal* machine, they *can't* upgrade the[/color][/color]
browser.[color=blue]
>
> Sure. But conversely, it may be important to remember that there will
> be viewers using IE6 because _that's_ what's installed on their
> machine. So designing a page "to" the bugs of IE5 (which might have
> been corrected in later versions, but if the author doesn't have one
> then he won't necessarily know that) is not the answer, either.[/color]

You always have flexibility in making legitimate styles.

If you know something is going to cause trouble, then don't use it. Child
selectors springs to mind. Don't design for the bugs, design so the bugs
never come into play. There's more than one way to do it, in Perl and HTML.

I really think if it works in Opera7, NS7.1 and Safari (Mac), you have a
pretty good case for it working in IE6, more so than it "working" in IE5
windows.

Jeff