Is there a "target=_blank" alternative in css ?

[Ian Rastall]

Re: Is there a "target=_b lank" alternative in css ?

On 29 Jul 2003 10:44:45 +0100, Chris Morris <c.i.morris@dur ham.ac.uk>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>Oh, yes. The ones at the lower end were definitely the more
>'technical' sites, which you'd expect to have a higher proportion of
>users able to install a decent browser.[/color]

Well, you see what I'm saying. It could be the site, not the
percentage. So 50% could be skewed, as could 90%. My stats usually run
around 80%.

One good thing I notice in the stats is that all the IE browsers are
either 5.0, 5.5, or 6.0. That Windows Update feature for Windows is
neat, because it encourages people to use the latest versions.

Ian
--

http://www.aspipes.org/

http://www.bookstacks.org/

[David Walker]

Re: Is there a &quot;target=_b lank&quot; alternative in css ?

> Sort of as an aside, while I use IE, and have always used it, I have[color=blue]
> to say that the Mozilla project is probably the best thing to come
> along in ages. I hope it consolidates the non-IE users, and then
> starts to cut into the IE market ... to hopefully force the browser
> people to all have a consistent back end. Holy crap, that would be
> like manna from Heaven.[/color]

Mozilla is OK, but as it is at the minute its just soooooooo slow! I'm sure
it will be further optimised in future versions, but I really can't use that
in preference to IE6 at the minute. Clicking refresh for example takes a
second before it seem to notice that i've clicked anything - for the minute
Mozilla on Windows will remain as a browser for testing only (although I
might try this Firebird thing - sounds more promising).

David

[Chris Morris]

Re: Is there a &quot;target=_b lank&quot; alternative in css ?

"David Walker" <wbsdavenews@ho tmail.com> writes:[color=blue][color=green]
> > Sort of as an aside, while I use IE, and have always used it, I have
> > to say that the Mozilla project is probably the best thing to come
> > along in ages. I hope it consolidates the non-IE users, and then[/color][/color]

No, I use a Mozilla variant (Galeon) as my primary browser, but I can
understand why people would want to use Opera or Konqueror/Safari (to
name just two other good quality decent rendering engines)
[color=blue][color=green]
> > starts to cut into the IE market ... to hopefully force the browser
> > people to all have a consistent back end. Holy crap, that would be
> > like manna from Heaven.[/color]
>
> Mozilla is OK, but as it is at the minute its just soooooooo slow! I'm sure
> it will be further optimised in future versions, but I really can't use that
> in preference to IE6 at the minute. Clicking refresh for example takes a
> second before it seem to notice that i've clicked anything - for the minute
> Mozilla on Windows will remain as a browser for testing only (although I
> might try this Firebird thing - sounds more promising).[/color]

You could also look at K-Meleon, which is a considerably faster
browser based around Mozilla for Windows. The interface is reasonably
similar to IE as well.

--
Chris

[Lauri Raittila]

Re: Is there a &quot;target=_b lank&quot; alternative in css ?

In article <ZevVa.926$yn4. 681@newssvr22.n ews.prodigy.com >, Richard Barnet
wrote:[color=blue]
> "brucie" <brucie01@loser .brucies.com> wrote in message[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
> > http://usenet.alt-html.org/css-change.html[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> Too bad that page doesn't work...[/color]

Really? I can see absolutely no way how it could not work.

--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Saapi lähettää meiliä, jos aihe ei liity ryhmään, tai on yksityinen
tjsp., mutta älä lähetä samaa viestiä meilitse ja ryhmään.

[Richard Barnet]

Re: Is there a &quot;target=_b lank&quot; alternative in css ?

> "brucie" <brucie01@loser .brucies.com> wrote in message[color=blue]
> news:19g0plishv ore.dlg@alt-html.org...[color=green]
> >
> > http://usenet.alt-html.org/css-change.html
> >[color=darkred]
> > > *need* JS enabled in order to switch stylesheets.[/color]
> >
> > more shit
> >[/color]
>
> Too bad that page doesn't work...
>[/color]

(The second page isn't found.) On the color boxes, you're not actually
switching stylesheets in real-time, they're links that *actually reload
the page* with a new stylesheet. Trivial difference, perhaps, but it's
not the same as switching stylesheets - going back to the server and
requesting a new page seems highly redundant and bandwidth intensive.
If you've already got all the information downloaded the first time, why
not just switch sheets without downloading it all over again?

-- Richard

[brucie]

Re: Is there a &quot;target=_b lank&quot; alternative in css ?

In post <ZevVa.926$yn4. 681@newssvr22.n ews.prodigy.com >
Richard Barnet said...

[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> A major example is switching stylesheets in IE - really easy with JS (thanks
>>> to an excellent article at AListApart), but impossible without it.[/color][/color][/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> what a load of shit
>> http://usenet.alt-html.org/css-change.html[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> Too bad that page doesn't work...[/color]

perhaps you could elaborate?



--
brucie a. blackford. 30/July/2003 12:45:49 am kilo.

http://loser.brucies.com/

[Lauri Raittila]

Re: Is there a &quot;target=_b lank&quot; alternative in css ?

In article <cpvVa.930$Os4. 768@newssvr22.n ews.prodigy.com >, Richard Barnet
wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
> > "brucie" <brucie01@loser .brucies.com> wrote in message[color=darkred]
> > > http://usenet.alt-html.org/css-change.html[/color][/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> (The second page isn't found.)[/color]

Well, that shouldn't be surprise, at is says so. It is test page.
[color=blue]
> On the color boxes, you're not actually
> switching stylesheets in real-time, they're links that *actually reload
> the page* with a new stylesheet. Trivial difference, perhaps, but it's
> not the same as switching stylesheets - going back to the server and
> requesting a new page seems highly redundant and bandwidth intensive.[/color]

Well, if you use alternative stylesheets, some browsers download all of
them, even if none is ever used - It'll create more bandwich usage than
downloading one page again, when _changing_ stylesheet.
[color=blue]
> If you've already got all the information downloaded the first time, why
> not just switch sheets without downloading it all over again?[/color]

Because it don't work? Because you can't bookmark page with nicest style?

--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Saapi lähettää meiliä, jos aihe ei liity ryhmään, tai on yksityinen
tjsp., mutta älä lähetä samaa viestiä meilitse ja ryhmään.

[brucie]

Re: Is there a &quot;target=_b lank&quot; alternative in css ?

In post <cpvVa.930$Os4. 768@newssvr22.n ews.prodigy.com >
Richard Barnet said...
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> http://usenet.alt-html.org/css-change.html[/color][/color][/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Too bad that page doesn't work...[/color][/color]

i'm still confused on that point.
[color=blue]
> (The second page isn't found.)[/color]

<quote>(not working, its just an example)</quote>
[color=blue]
> On the color boxes, you're not actually switching stylesheets in real-time,
> they're links that *actually reload the page* with a new stylesheet.[/color]

and the disadvantage of re-downloading the page (in this case a
whopping 1.7K) is?
[color=blue]
> Trivial difference, perhaps,[/color]

you mean you're grasping at straws.
[color=blue]
> but it's not the same as switching stylesheets - going back to the server
> and requesting a new page seems highly redundant and bandwidth intensive.
> If you've already got all the information downloaded the first time,[/color]

you only need to retrieve the file once and once only. it is not as
intensive as downloading all 10 stylesheets when the visitor may not
even use one.

a) it is possible to change stylesheets without JS.
b) there are more advantages to doing it server side than client side.

--
brucie a. blackford. 30/July/2003 01:14:31 am kilo.

http://loser.brucies.com/

[Kris]

Re: Is there a &quot;target=_b lank&quot; alternative in css ?

In article <87d6ft8wjw.fsf @dinopsis.dur.a c.uk>,
Chris Morris <c.i.morris@dur ham.ac.uk> wrote:
[color=blue]
> "David Walker" <wbsdavenews@ho tmail.com> writes:[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > Sort of as an aside, while I use IE, and have always used it, I have
> > > to say that the Mozilla project is probably the best thing to come
> > > along in ages. I hope it consolidates the non-IE users, and then[/color][/color]
>
> No, I use a Mozilla variant (Galeon) as my primary browser, but I can
> understand why people would want to use Opera or Konqueror/Safari (to
> name just two other good quality decent rendering engines)[/color]

I can only understand why anyone on Mac OS X would not want to use
Safari for online banking, because in most cases those sites are such
bloated pieces of crap--build for IE--that it will never really work in
another browser.
I have IE/Mac ready for this, but it is the only reason why I keep it.

And once I hear of a bank who got its priorities straight and publishes
a site that can actually be used, I will switch bank accounts without
hesitation and dump IE/Mac for good.

Heck, those banks should have hired me for front-end work.

--
Kris
kristiaan@xs4al l.netherlands (nl)
"We called him Tortoise because he taught us" said the Mock Turtle.

[David Walker]

Re: Is there a &quot;target=_b lank&quot; alternative in css ?

> not the same as switching stylesheets - going back to the server and[color=blue]
> requesting a new page seems highly redundant and bandwidth intensive.
> If you've already got all the information downloaded the first time, why
> not just switch sheets without downloading it all over again?[/color]

So instead you're going to download maybe dosens of style sheets when only
one is needed, and most users won't care enough to bother to switch anyway.
If its just lots of random visitors, they aren't going to want to change
stylesheets for maybe only one visit. On the other hand, if its a
member-type site, then they will find the one they want, and the server
should remember their preference and give them the same all the time - they
don't want javascript and to be downloading more stylesheets than the single
one they decide they like.

David

[Richard Barnet]

Re: Is there a &quot;target=_b lank&quot; alternative in css ?

"Lauri Raittila" <lauri@raittila .cjb.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1990b9 8c3e319cb0989c1 3@news.cis.dfn. de...[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > If you've already got all the information downloaded the first time,[/color][/color]
why[color=blue][color=green]
> > not just switch sheets without downloading it all over again?[/color]
>
> Because it don't work? Because you can't bookmark page with nicest[/color]
style?[color=blue]
>[/color]

You bookmark the page, independent of whichever stylesheet you need (or
like). Set a cookie (oh the humanity), and the browser remembers the
preferred stylesheet across the entire site during the session and on
subsequent visits (depending on which type of cookie you use, session or
persistent). If the user blocks cookies, then it still degrades nicely.

Brucie's PHP method is nice, but apparently wouldn't work throughout a
site (across pages) without either adding the same type of cookie
functionality or hardcoding a bunch of links (page-two.html?style= 00,
?style=01, ?style=02, etc.) (yuck).

Why isn't the second page working, by the way? Brucie's argument might
be a bit stronger if it actually did work...

-- Richard

[Lauri Raittila]

Re: Is there a &quot;target=_b lank&quot; alternative in css ?

In article <bg6mjm$2dk$1@n nrp.atgi.net>, Richard Barnet wrote:[color=blue]
> "Lauri Raittila" <lauri@raittila .cjb.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1990b9 8c3e319cb0989c1 3@news.cis.dfn. de...[color=green]
> >[color=darkred]
> > > If you've already got all the information downloaded the first time,[/color][/color]
> why[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > not just switch sheets without downloading it all over again?[/color]
> >
> > Because it don't work? Because you can't bookmark page with nicest[/color]
> style?[color=green]
> >[/color]
>
> You bookmark the page, independent of whichever stylesheet you need (or
> like).[/color]

Exactly. How do I bookmark two (or same) page from site using different
style? If alternative stylesheet is useful, I want bookmark it. If it's
just useless decoration change, it shouldn't be there first place.
[color=blue]
> Set a cookie (oh the humanity), and the browser remembers the
> preferred stylesheet across the entire site during the session and on
> subsequent visits (depending on which type of cookie you use, session or
> persistent). If the user blocks cookies, then it still degrades nicely.[/color]

And when I visit my bookmark year later? Or in using other browser? When
I post link to it, saying "look this nice design"? It degrades nicely
true, but what advantage it has to server side thing, that don't need to
degrade, as it works?
[color=blue]
> Brucie's PHP method is nice, but apparently wouldn't work throughout a
> site (across pages) without either adding the same type of cookie
> functionality or hardcoding a bunch of links (page-two.html?style= 00,
> ?style=01, ?style=02, etc.) (yuck).[/color]

But it makes easy to know one is using some special style. And also it is
easy to get rid of it, even if style changer thingy is not in same page -
just strip query part.
[color=blue]
> Why isn't the second page working, by the way? Brucie's argument might
> be a bit stronger if it actually did work...[/color]

Because it don't exist. There is no second page, he never made one. you
get 404, not plain page with wrong style. If he had made it, it would
work.


--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Saapi lähettää meiliä, jos aihe ei liity ryhmään, tai on yksityinen
tjsp., mutta älä lähetä samaa viestiä meilitse ja ryhmään.

[Lauri Raittila]

Re: Is there a &quot;target=_b lank&quot; alternative in css ?

In article <bg6e7m$i8n$1@w isteria.csv.war wick.ac.uk>, David Walker wrote:
[color=blue]
> Its not the loading of the program that i'm talking about - actually loading
> pages is significantly slower in Mozilla on Windows XP compared to IE6 or
> Opera. Most of this has been testing local pages before I upload to the
> primary server, so the delay is perhaps more noticeable than it usually
> would be, but it can be very irritating when you click and nothing happens
> for at times up to a second. Then again, I have no problems with IE6 so
> don't really need to find an alternative anyway - but if i did, Mozilla
> wouldn't be the first choice at the minute.[/color]

You are still using XHTML? IIRC Mozilla don't render XHTML before it is
fully loaded. That is about only way to follow XML rules that forbids
rendering incorrect (not well formed?) code. That might be difference.
OTOH, Might not.


--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Saapi lähettää meiliä, jos aihe ei liity ryhmään, tai on yksityinen
tjsp., mutta älä lähetä samaa viestiä meilitse ja ryhmään.

[Jim Ley]

Re: Is there a &quot;target=_b lank&quot; alternative in css ?

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 02:08:42 +0300, Lauri Raittila
<lauri@raittila .cjb.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>You are still using XHTML? IIRC Mozilla don't render XHTML before it is
>fully loaded. That is about only way to follow XML rules that forbids
>rendering incorrect (not well formed?) code. That might be difference.
>OTOH, Might not.[/color]

Pretty disastrous for usability of XHTML, and is for me the main
reason never to switch to XHTML, fortunately the SVG people didn't go
down this road and allow progressive rendering on the assumption that
document will be well-formed.

Jim.
--
comp.lang.javas cript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/