div width in table cell adding extra space.

**Stephen Poley** · Jul 20 '05, 07:30 PM

Re: div width in table cell adding extra space.

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:10:59 +0100, Spartanicus <me@privacy.net > wrote:
[color=blue]
>Stephen Poley <sbpoleySpicedH amTrap@xs4all.n l> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>in CSS terms inline elements cannot be absolutely positioned[/color]
>
>Incorrect.[/color]

Hmm - I should have just said that the page used "inline" to mean
something different to what CSS means.

Having said that, the CSS spec states "An absolutely positioned box
establishes a new containing block ... " so I think I'm right in saying
that once you've absolutely positioned something it is no longer inline.
However it wasn't important to the actual point at issue.

--
Stephen Poley

404 Not Found

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/

**Spartanicus** · Jul 20 '05, 07:30 PM

Re: div width in table cell adding extra space.

Stephen Poley <sbpoleySpicedH amTrap@xs4all.n l> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Having said that, the CSS spec states "An absolutely positioned box
>establishes a new containing block ... " so I think I'm right in saying
>that once you've absolutely positioned something it is no longer inline.[/color]

It is, just wrapped in a anonymous containing block.

--
Spartanicus

**Spartanicus** · Jul 20 '05, 07:30 PM

Re: div width in table cell adding extra space.

Spartanicus <me@privacy.net > wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>>Having said that, the CSS spec states "An absolutely positioned box
>>establishes a new containing block ... " so I think I'm right in saying
>>that once you've absolutely positioned something it is no longer inline.[/color]
>
>It is, just wrapped in a anonymous containing block.[/color]

Incorrect, sorry, brainfart.

--
Spartanicus

**Chris Morris** · Jul 20 '05, 07:30 PM

Re: div width in table cell adding extra space.

marathon <M@linux.ca> writes:[color=blue]
> I'll quote from one particular HTML guru from the Macromedia Dreamweaver
> site:
>
> "Never put layers in tables. Netscape 4x, and Macintosh browsers[/color]

<div> !== absolutely positioned <div>

There are plenty of uses for <div>s that don't involve absolute
positioning. In fact, I can't immediately think of a good reason to
put an _absolutely positioned_ <div> inside a table [1].

[1] Well, not for data tables, and layout tables shouldn't be used
anyway.
[color=blue]
> will not properly render layers in tables. If you are having
> positioning problems with layers but only in certain browsers, this
> is the first thing to look for. The solution would be to move the
> layer(s)'s code out of the table, and re-insert it immediately above
> the end <body> tag (that's the beauty of an absolutely positioned
> page element - its position on the page is not dependent on its
> position in the code)."[/color]

That's *not* necessarily a solution. Firstly if there's an element
with position: relative; between the <body> and the original position,
it'll move where it ends up.

Secondly, the content might not make sense if moved elsewhere in the
document - consider linearisation for CSS-disabled/unsupported
browsers and for search engines [2].

[2] Strangely, CSS linearisation is WAI-A, layout table linearisation
is WAI-AA. I have no idea why.

--
Chris

**Brian** · Jul 20 '05, 07:30 PM

Re: div width in table cell adding extra space.

marathon wrote:
[color=blue]
> Brian wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> marathon wrote:
>>>
>>>>> As soon as one put's a div in table, then don't be surprised
>>>>> if one has problems. <shrug>[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
>> Unless you can present a test case where a <div> placed inside a
>> <td> causes some special problems, this claim is baseless.[/color]
>
> My friend, I presented you with a plethora of examples.[/color]

(a) You're not my friend. (b) All the examples in the world don't mean
squat without a test case.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> <layer> != <div>[/color]
>
> Actually layers _ARE EQUAL_ to divs in the HTML sense.[/color]

Now we know you are as stubborn as you are clueless. There is no <layer>
in any html version.

--
Brian (remove ".invalid" to email me)

-

http://www.tsmchughs.com/

**marathon** · Jul 20 '05, 07:30 PM

Re: div width in table cell adding extra space.

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:16:28 +0200, Stephen Poley in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html wrote:[color=blue]
>On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 19:36:11 -0400, marathon <M@linux.ca> wrote:[/color]

[color=blue][color=green]
>>No, some HTML Visual Editors refer to divs as "layers".[/color][/color]

[color=blue]
>The first page you quoted, http://www.thepattysite.com/layer_laws.cfm,
>says in its very first paragraph that a layer is an
>*absolutely-positioned* div. It seems to me that you are out of your
>depth and should do a bit more reading and experimentation before you
>come out with sweeping statements such as "you shouldn't put divs into
>tables".[/color]

Forget about the definition of what a "layer" is (It's blinding you). It
is a div for purposes of this discussion. You're displaying the typical
argumentative behaviour one does, when they have little substance to
back up an argument.

It's not just my opinion. If you check out the Google reference URL I
gave, you'll find many others, whom are probably just as knowledgeable
as you in regards to HTML, who agree that putting divs into tables is a
'bad thing to do'.

Instead of making personal attacks as to one's proficiency in any
particular skillset, I'd examine the issue at hand, with an open mind.

Can all these other experts be so wrong, and a few of you here so right?
If you feel you're right, I'll invite you take your argument up with the
alumni of the Dreamweaver design group, many of whom have been doing
this professionally for years. I'm sure you'll quickly find you're at
least among equals, if not, perhaps people just a little better than what
your inflated ego's inner voice seems to say to you.
[color=blue]
>Incidentally that page is pretty unimpressive, as it mixes up tags with
>elements, makes confusing use of the term 'inline' (in CSS terms inline
>elements cannot be absolutely positioned), and generally gives the
>impression that the author hasn't read the HTML and CSS specs recently,
>if at all.[/color]

Well like art, beauty is quite subjective. Such a frail attempt to
discredit, doesn't make your argument any more right.

I'll leave you to argue with yourself, and have the last word.

--
ATTENTION
This room is fullfilled mit special electronische equippment.
Fingergrabbing and pressing the cnoeppkes from the computers is
allowed for die experts only! So all the "lefthander s" stay away
and do not disturben the brainstorming von here working
intelligencies. Otherwise you will be out thrown and kicked
anderswhere! Also: please keep still and only watchen
astaunished the blinkenlights.

**marathon** · Jul 20 '05, 07:30 PM

Re: div width in table cell adding extra space.

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:38:59 -0400, Brian in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html wrote:[color=blue]
>marathon wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Brian wrote:[/color][/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> My friend, I presented you with a plethora of examples.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
>(a) You're not my friend. (b) All the examples in the world don't mean
>squat without a test case.[/color]

<smile> Ah you're so predicable, and I don't even know you...
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> <layer> != <div>[/color]
>>
>> Actually layers _ARE EQUAL_ to divs in the HTML sense.[/color][/color]

<strawman alert>
[color=blue]
>Now we know you are as stubborn as you are clueless. There is no <layer>
>in any html version.[/color]

</strawman alert>

I never said there was. What I inferred was that Layers are Divs. If
one is in Dreamweaver adding a layer, then one is putting in a div
in terms of what HTML refers to as a div.

If one were to look at the source markup, then one would see a 'div'
element.

--
ATTENTION
This room is fullfilled mit special electronische equippment.
Fingergrabbing and pressing the cnoeppkes from the computers is
allowed for die experts only! So all the "lefthander s" stay away
and do not disturben the brainstorming von here working
intelligencies. Otherwise you will be out thrown and kicked
anderswhere! Also: please keep still and only watchen
astaunished the blinkenlights.

**Chris Morris** · Jul 20 '05, 07:31 PM

Re: div width in table cell adding extra space.

marathon <M@linux.ca> writes:[color=blue]
> Forget about the definition of what a "layer" is (It's blinding you). It
> is a div for purposes of this discussion. You're displaying the typical[/color]

All absolutely positioned divs (layers) are divs, but not all divs are
layers. Non-absolutely-positioned divs can be placed inside table
cells without problem.
[color=blue]
> It's not just my opinion. If you check out the Google reference URL I
> gave, you'll find many others, whom are probably just as knowledgeable
> as you in regards to HTML, who agree that putting divs into tables is a
> 'bad thing to do'.[/color]

<div>s, or absolutely-positioned (layer) <div>s?

The former is fine, the latter is risky.

--
Chris

**Alan J. Flavell** · Jul 20 '05, 07:31 PM

Re: div width in table cell adding extra space.

While watching from the peanut gallery, I noticed that
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, marathon wrote (addressing Stephen Poley):
[color=blue]
> Forget about the definition of what a "layer" is (It's blinding you).[/color]

"Blinding" in the sense that the group is reading what you actually
wrote, when you really wanted them to read something else...
[color=blue]
> It is a div for purposes of this discussion.[/color]

The point at issue is CSS positioning. The div is a mere bystander in
that. As far as HTML is concerned, applying positioning to a
paragraph, a blockquote, etc. would be much the same as applying it to
a div.
[color=blue]
> You're displaying the typical argumentative behaviour one does, when
> they have little substance to back up an argument.[/color]

Pot, meet kettle.
[color=blue]
> It's not just my opinion. If you check out the Google reference URL I
> gave, you'll find many others, whom are probably just as knowledgeable
> as you in regards to HTML, who agree that putting divs into tables is a
> 'bad thing to do'.[/color]

Translation: you have read it somewhere, you didn't understand the
context, and now you're happily regurgitating it without comprehending
that it's out of context. And flaming anyone who dares to try to set
the story straight.
[color=blue]
> I'd examine the issue at hand, with an open mind.[/color]

Yup, I've done that. I'd recommend that you try it, too.

bye

div width in table cell adding extra space.

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