Does anyone pay attention to standards?

[Whitecrest]

Re: Does anyone pay attention to standards?

In article <MPG.1af9aeff92 b2d55898c9a3@ne ws.individual.n et>,
web@ericjarvis. co.uk says...[color=blue]
> once somebody has to start misrepresenting others and starts rewriting the
> history of a debate in order to "win" an argument, I think the only
> sensible thing we can do is killfile them...there's no point arguing with
> Whitecrest any more, it's just going to make the signal to noise ratio on
> the group worse...Whitecr est isn't arguing to learn or to establish the
> truth, Whitecrest is clearly arguing purely as an ego boost...there's no
> point in anyone else participating in that[/color]

Actually, I am not arguing at all. I am stating an alternate viewpoint,
that you wish to stick your head in the sand and pretend it does not
exist, even though it is the policy and the practice of virtually every
fortune 500 company in the world. (But those experts are to stupid to
know about standards, only the chosen few in this forum can know the
true way...)

If an alternate viewpoint offends you , then by all means kill file me
you won't be the first.

--
Whitecrest Entertainment

https://www.whitecrestent.com

[Stan McCann]

Re: Does anyone pay attention to standards?

Whitecrest wrote:[color=blue]
> In article <408f4279$1@new s.zianet.com>, stan@surecann.c om says...
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>See this is where we disagree. I think it is an important part of the
>>>web.[/color]
>>
>>You wan't to turn it into TV?!? Why not just watch the boob tube then?[/color]
>
>
> Turn it into? It already is, where have you been?[/color]

Not quite. But many businesses are trying. I've been using the
internet before "the web"; I remember the first Mosaic coming out and
how "cool" I thought it was. Little did I know then as to how it would
take off.
[color=blue]
>
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>Ahh you admit that you can do something other than searching for product
>>>informatio n. You are making progress.[/color]
>>
>>I'm a big gamer. I don't use a browser interface for it though.[/color]
>
>
> and that is significant because....[/color]

It's not really. Other than a gaming client can do a much better job at
doing what it is designed to do. A broser isn't designed to transfer as
much information needed as fast as it's needed for gaming.
[color=blue]
>
>[color=green]
>>It's attitudes like yours that
>>perpetuate that kind of business. Like the rest of the sheep, you are
>>allowing business to do as they wish.[/color]
>
>
> No, I show business how, and when to do it.[/color]

Even worse.
[color=blue]
>
>[color=green]
>>I'm not saying that you can't have games, music, or flash, all the stuff
>>you seem to want a browser to do. Just don't *expect* it in a
>>technology that isn't designed for it.[/color]
>
>
> It is designed for it. You just don't like it.
>[/color]
If browsers were designed for flash, they wouldn't need a plug in to
display it. And that's right, I don't like the fact that people are
trying to control *my pc.* If you want to save some information, do it
on your machine, not mine. I keep all kinds of information on my pc
that is no one's business but mine. I'm not giving permission for
orthers to read or write files on my pc. Many of these technologies
that you and so many businesses seem to like so much allow that. I
fully intend to do my part in making it unprofitable. I'm not playing
the game of install every plug in and open my pc wide to whoever wants
it. You have one thing right about me. I don't like it.

--
Stan McCann
Tularosa Basin chapter ABATE of NM Cooordinator, Alamogordo, NM
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) :(

http://surecann.com/Dcp_2068c.jpg

[Whitecrest]

Re: Does anyone pay attention to standards?

In article <408fba94$1@new s.zianet.com>, stan@surecann.c om says...[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >>You wan't to turn it into TV?!? Why not just watch the boob tube then?[/color]
> > Turn it into? It already is, where have you been?[/color]
> Not quite. But many businesses are trying.[/color]

We are in the infancy stage of Web based Television. As broadband
continues to grow, the web will be used more and more for live and on
demand webcasts.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >>I'm a big gamer. I don't use a browser interface for it though.[/color]
> > and that is significant because....[/color]
> It's not really. Other than a gaming client can do a much better job at
> doing what it is designed to do. A broser isn't designed to transfer as
> much information needed as fast as it's needed for gaming.[/color]

Oh of course there are better mediums for on line gaming, but sites
catering to kids, (nick.com, barbie.com etc...) flash based games are
more than adequate to brand the kids to a product. Remember the games
at such sites are really just a sly way to brand the kids.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >>It's attitudes like yours that
> >>perpetuate that kind of business. Like the rest of the sheep, you are
> >>allowing business to do as they wish.[/color]
> > No, I show business how, and when to do it.[/color]
> Even worse.[/color]

Well in your opinion it is worse. The key is not HOW to do it, but WHEN
to do it. There is a right time (nick.com) and a wrong time
(google.com).
[color=blue]
> You have one thing right about me. I don't like it.[/color]

Then don't frequent the sites that use it, and the ones that uses it
that you have to go to, well complain to them about it. When enough
people complain, they (as I) will change.
--
Whitecrest Entertainment

https://www.whitecrestent.com

[Toby A Inkster]

Re: Does anyone pay attention to standards?

Whitecrest wrote:
[color=blue]
> nor is there a guarantee that the Standards will not depreciate a tag
> you use and you have to re code.[/color]

That argument holds no water. If a future standard deprecates or
eliminates an element or attribute that you rely on you simply don't use
that future standard and stick with the current one.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132

[Stan McCann]

Re: Does anyone pay attention to standards?

Whitecrest wrote:[color=blue]
> Then don't frequent the sites that use it, and the ones that uses it
> that you have to go to, well complain to them about it. When enough
> people complain, they (as I) will change.[/color]

That's exactly what I do. I ofen find something that I would like to
purchase but find that I cannot on line due to my privacy settings.
Sometimes I will just leave the site and forget about it, other times I
will email them that they have lost a customer, and still other times I
will call to order making it clear that it is a hassle and I'd rather
use their on line ordering if they would just fix it. It mostly depends
on how badly I want or need the item. Then sometimes, my mood comes
into play; I am a Gemini after all. ;) Unfortunately, as I've said,
there are too many sheep willing to go along with anything not realizing
what affect it has on the industry. I'm afraid that my complaints don't
mean much because of the numerous sheep.

--
Stan McCann
Tularosa Basin chapter ABATE of NM Cooordinator, Alamogordo, NM
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) :(

http://surecann.com/Dcp_2068c.jpg

[Whitecrest]

Re: Does anyone pay attention to standards?

In article <pan.2004.04.28 .17.51.30.95656 1@goddamn.co.uk >,
tobyink@goddamn .co.uk says...[color=blue][color=green]
> > nor is there a guarantee that the Standards will not depreciate a tag
> > you use and you have to re code.[/color]
> That argument holds no water. If a future standard deprecates or
> eliminates an element or attribute that you rely on you simply don't use
> that future standard and stick with the current one.[/color]

Then the same rule be applied to the <embed> tag right?

--
Whitecrest Entertainment

https://www.whitecrestent.com

[Whitecrest]

Re: Does anyone pay attention to standards?

In article <408fe941$1@new s.zianet.com>, stan@surecann.c om says...[color=blue]
> Whitecrest wrote:[color=green]
> > Then don't frequent the sites that use it, and the ones that uses it
> > that you have to go to, well complain to them about it. When enough
> > people complain, they (as I) will change.[/color]
> That's exactly what I do.[/color]

And I am all for that. If enough people complain about a site, the site
will change. When they do, I will be there to make the needed changes.

--
Whitecrest Entertainment

https://www.whitecrestent.com

[Grahammer]

Re: Does anyone pay attention to standards?


"Whitecrest " <whitecrest@whi tecrestziopzap. com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1af994 e13ae97fd0989bb 0@news.charter. net...[color=blue]
> In article <408fba94$1@new s.zianet.com>, stan@surecann.c om says...[color=green][color=darkred]
> > >>You wan't to turn it into TV?!? Why not just watch the boob tube[/color][/color][/color]
then?[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > Turn it into? It already is, where have you been?[/color]
> > Not quite. But many businesses are trying.[/color]
>
> We are in the infancy stage of Web based Television. As broadband
> continues to grow, the web will be used more and more for live and on
> demand webcasts.[/color]

Where have you been? My cable company already offers IP based television.
The web is *NOT* where television is headed. Anyone who thinks that they can
put TV onto a webpage and make it as attractive and reliable as TV is living
in a dreamworld.

Even if technology makes broadcasts available to webpages, it still won't be
used. Other protocols will do it better than HTTP: and trying to mix them
will just cause more headaches than it's worth.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > >>I'm a big gamer. I don't use a browser interface for it though.
> > > and that is significant because....[/color]
> > It's not really. Other than a gaming client can do a much better job at
> > doing what it is designed to do. A broser isn't designed to transfer as
> > much information needed as fast as it's needed for gaming.[/color]
>
> Oh of course there are better mediums for on line gaming, but sites
> catering to kids, (nick.com, barbie.com etc...) flash based games are
> more than adequate to brand the kids to a product. Remember the games
> at such sites are really just a sly way to brand the kids.[/color]

And the reason that gaming sites don't use web interfaces is the same reason
that TV won't show up on the web in any major way. Specific clients and
protocols will be created without the need for any HTTP interface.

(PS, just jumped into the thread, not sure if any of that was covered.)

[Stanimir Stamenkov]

Re: Does anyone pay attention to standards?

/Whitecrest/:[color=blue]
> In article <pan.2004.04.28 .17.51.30.95656 1@goddamn.co.uk >,
> tobyink@goddamn .co.uk says...
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> nor is there a guarantee that the Standards will not depreciate a tag
>>> you use and you have to re code.[/color]
>>
>> That argument holds no water. If a future standard deprecates or
>> eliminates an element or attribute that you rely on you simply don't use
>> that future standard and stick with the current one.[/color]
>
> Then the same rule be applied to the <embed> tag right?[/color]

AFAIK, <embed> is no part of any HTML specification, so far.

--
Stanimir

[Whitecrest]

Re: Does anyone pay attention to standards?

In article <qQSjc.298404$I g.13338@pd7tw2n o>, postmaster@127. 0.0.1
says...[color=blue]
> Where have you been? My cable company already offers IP based television.
> The web is *NOT* where television is headed. Anyone who thinks that they can
> put TV onto a webpage and make it as attractive and reliable as TV is living
> in a dreamworld.[/color]

And the world is flat...
[color=blue]
> (PS, just jumped into the thread, not sure if any of that was covered.)[/color]

Not with the lack of practical knowledge you have shown it hasn't...
--
Whitecrest Entertainment

https://www.whitecrestent.com

[Whitecrest]

Re: Does anyone pay attention to standards?

In article <c6ouet$eg7o2$1 @ID-207379.news.uni-berlin.de>, s7an10
@netscape.net says...[color=blue]
> /Whitecrest/:[color=green]
> > In article <pan.2004.04.28 .17.51.30.95656 1@goddamn.co.uk >,
> > tobyink@goddamn .co.uk says...
> >[color=darkred]
> >>> nor is there a guarantee that the Standards will not depreciate a tag
> >>> you use and you have to re code.
> >>
> >> That argument holds no water. If a future standard deprecates or
> >> eliminates an element or attribute that you rely on you simply don't use
> >> that future standard and stick with the current one.[/color]
> >
> > Then the same rule be applied to the <embed> tag right?[/color]
>
> AFAIK, <embed> is no part of any HTML specification, so far.[/color]

Yes you are right, but it is supported by all the browsers.

Of course this only proves my point there are things you can not do if
you stick with the standards. Thanks for the heads up.

--
Whitecrest Entertainment

https://www.whitecrestent.com

[Stanimir Stamenkov]

Re: Does anyone pay attention to standards?

/Whitecrest/:[color=blue]
> In article <qQSjc.298404$I g.13338@pd7tw2n o>, postmaster@127. 0.0.1
> says...
>[color=green]
>> Where have you been? My cable company already offers IP based television.
>> The web is *NOT* where television is headed. Anyone who thinks that they can
>> put TV onto a webpage and make it as attractive and reliable as TV is living
>> in a dreamworld.[/color]
>
> And the world is flat...[/color]

And I think you're just too arrogant to accept anything different
from your tiny way of thinking.

--
Stanimir

[Whitecrest]

Re: Does anyone pay attention to standards?

In article <c6ovmm$ei2o6$1 @ID-207379.news.uni-berlin.de>, s7an10
@netscape.net says...[color=blue][color=green]
> > And the world is flat...[/color]
> And I think you're just too arrogant to accept anything different
> from your tiny way of thinking.[/color]

Not at all. I completely agree with standards and validation and
accessibility for most sites. All I am saying that in addition to all
that, there are a some sites that if is all irrelevant to.

You just disagree with that. Nothing to get your undies in a bunch
over.
--
Whitecrest Entertainment

https://www.whitecrestent.com

[Toby A Inkster]

Re: Does anyone pay attention to standards?

Whitecrest wrote:
[color=blue]
> In article <pan.2004.04.28 .17.51.30.95656 1@goddamn.co.uk >,
> tobyink@goddamn .co.uk says...[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > nor is there a guarantee that the Standards will not depreciate a tag
>> > you use and you have to re code.[/color]
>> That argument holds no water. If a future standard deprecates or
>> eliminates an element or attribute that you rely on you simply don't use
>> that future standard and stick with the current one.[/color]
>
> Then the same rule be applied to the <embed> tag right?[/color]

Yes. Except there is no current HTML standard that allows its use.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132

[Whitecrest]

Re: Does anyone pay attention to standards?

In article <pan.2004.04.28 .19.05.14.56279 6@goddamn.co.uk >,
tobyink@goddamn .co.uk says...[color=blue]
> Whitecrest wrote:
>[color=green]
> > In article <pan.2004.04.28 .17.51.30.95656 1@goddamn.co.uk >,
> > tobyink@goddamn .co.uk says...[color=darkred]
> >> > nor is there a guarantee that the Standards will not depreciate a tag
> >> > you use and you have to re code.
> >> That argument holds no water. If a future standard deprecates or
> >> eliminates an element or attribute that you rely on you simply don't use
> >> that future standard and stick with the current one.[/color]
> >
> > Then the same rule be applied to the <embed> tag right?[/color]
>
> Yes. Except there is no current HTML standard that allows its use.[/color]

Yea, but is a plus for my argument. If you stick to standards, you
can't make it work on your visitors computers without a work around of
some sort. When the non standard solution is supported by virtually
every browser.
--
Whitecrest Entertainment

https://www.whitecrestent.com