aPossible to Make A "Dummy" Anchor Tag **without** Jumping Back Up???

[Stanimir Stamenkov]

Re: aPossible to Make A "Dummy&quo t; Anchor Tag **without** Jumping BackUp???

Followup-To: comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html

On 02.5.2008 г. 04:21, /Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn/:

Stanimir Stamenkov wrote:

>Thu, 1 May 2008 16:16:49 -0700 (PDT), /Prisoner at War/:
>>

>>I have a hyperlink that doesn't point to another document, but is used
>>to call forth a modal window onClick (or is there another way, without
>>text or image links, of calling forth JavaScript on user activity??).
>>I would like to spare my visitors the inconvenience and visually
>>jarring effect of getting thrown back up to the top of the page! =(

>>
>If the element is not really a hyper link why marking it as such?
>Better use generic SPAN element or A(nchor) element without 'href'
>and attach 'click' handler to it. This will spare your visitors the
>confusion with encountering hyper links which are not really hyper
>links.

>
However, this reasoning is flawed because the confusion of the user about
what looks like a control that does not appear to work remains.

I agree HTML Form controls (non-submit buttons) should be used
whenever possible, but as far as I know people avoid them because
they are "harder" to style (they are replaced elements the styling
of which is non-standardized, currently). Styling is the main
reason people abuse hyper links instead of using standard form buttons.

Scripting is used to implement non-standard UI controls, too. The
Google Maps map, for instance. It can't be "expressed" using
standard form controls and it can't possibly work without full
scripting and styling support. In this regard I think it is better
to style a SPAN like a button (or whatever is appropriate) and
attach a custom script action to it, rather than abusing a hyper
link element for that purpose.

--
Stanimir

[Stanimir Stamenkov]

Re: aPossible to Make A "Dummy&quo t; Anchor Tag **without** Jumping BackUp???

Fri, 02 May 2008 19:10:32 +0300, /Stanimir Stamenkov/:

In this regard I think it is better to style a SPAN
like a button (or whatever is appropriate) and attach a custom script
action to it, rather than abusing a hyper link element for that purpose.

Hyper-link elements - HTML <Aelements with 'href' attribute
specified. <Aelement without 'href' is not a hyper-link so it is
perfectly possible to use it in place of SPAN, also.

--
Stanimir

[Joost Diepenmaat]

Re: aPossible to Make A &quot;Dummy&quo t; Anchor Tag **without** Jumping Back Up???

Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscap e.netwrites:

Fri, 02 May 2008 19:10:32 +0300, /Stanimir Stamenkov/:
>

>In this regard I think it is better to style a SPAN like a button
>(or whatever is appropriate) and attach a custom script action to
>it, rather than abusing a hyper link element for that purpose.

>
Hyper-link elements - HTML <Aelements with 'href' attribute
specified. <Aelement without 'href' is not a hyper-link so it is
perfectly possible to use it in place of SPAN, also.

But then you'd have to differentiate between "pure anchors"; <a
name="something "and "my special click thingies": <a
onclick="dostuf f()">. Still better to use a span or a div.

If styling form controls wasn't so annoying, I'd always recommend
<button>. As it is, it's just too hard to style portably in some
cases.

--
Joost Diepenmaat | blog: http://joost.zeekat.nl/ | work: http://zeekat.nl/

[Stanimir Stamenkov]

Re: aPossible to Make A &quot;Dummy&quo t; Anchor Tag **without** Jumping BackUp???

Fri, 02 May 2008 19:49:36 +0200, /Joost Diepenmaat/:

Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscap e.netwrites:
>

>Hyper-link elements - HTML <Aelements with 'href' attribute
>specified. <Aelement without 'href' is not a hyper-link so it is
>perfectly possible to use it in place of SPAN, also.

>
But then you'd have to differentiate between "pure anchors"; <a
name="something "and "my special click thingies": <a
onclick="dostuf f()">. Still better to use a span or a div.

Is there anything ambiguous in differentiating a named anchor or
link and an <Aelement which does not specify an anchor? At least
the HTML specification states (a bit down below)
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/links.html#edef-A>:

Authors may also create an A element that specifies no anchors,
i.e., that doesn't specify href, name, or id. Values for these
attributes may be set at a later time through scripts.

Until href, name, or id gets set the <Aelement doesn't signify an
anchor. Similar case would be:

<ul>
<li><a href="section1" >Section 1</a></li>
<li><a href="section2" >Section 2</a></li>
<li><a>Sectio n 3</a></li>
<li><a href="section4" >Section 4</a></li>
</ul>

The given list used as navigational menu in a multi-page document
where the current page is "Section 3".

--
Stanimir

[Prisoner at War]

Re: aPossible to Make A &quot;Dummy&quo t; Anchor Tag **without** Jumping BackUp???

On May 2, 12:51 pm, Jim Moe <jmm-list.AXSPA...@s ohnen-moe.comwrote:

>
>
I guess I don't get it then. You need a link that's not a link but looks
like a link and does non-link things. I can see why you are having difficulty.
Use a <span>, give it a class that makes it look like a link (to confuse
everyone), and the onClick attribute to do the non-link things.

I suppose I'm not making myself clear (or maybe I really don't know
what I'm trying to do!)...instead of footnotes on every page, I
figured I'd present such information as an option. That means a
button or a link, right?

So clicking a link -- say, an asterisk -- brings up a modal window.
That way, the page itself is not cluttered by extraneous info but the
user has the option of viewing it.

I could use a button, but unless buttons can be made as small as an
asterisk, I think a hyperlink is what I have to use.

Or is there anything else other than a hyperlink or button?

In the meantime, I'm considering onMouseOver "help balloons" instead,
instead of onClick modal windows. Help balloons seem less intrusive
and in-your-face than modal windows.

Any more advice much appreciated.

--
jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

[Joost Diepenmaat]

Re: aPossible to Make A &quot;Dummy&quo t; Anchor Tag **without** Jumping Back Up???

Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscap e.netwrites:

Fri, 02 May 2008 19:49:36 +0200, /Joost Diepenmaat/:

>Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscap e.netwrites:
>>

>>Hyper-link elements - HTML <Aelements with 'href' attribute
>>specified. <Aelement without 'href' is not a hyper-link so it is
>>perfectly possible to use it in place of SPAN, also.

>>
>But then you'd have to differentiate between "pure anchors"; <a
>name="somethin g"and "my special click thingies": <a
>onclick="dostu ff()">. Still better to use a span or a div.

>
Is there anything ambiguous in differentiating a named anchor or link
and an <Aelement which does not specify an anchor? At least the
HTML specification states (a bit down below)
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/links.html#edef-A>:
>

>Authors may also create an A element that specifies no anchors,
>i.e., that doesn't specify href, name, or id. Values for these
>attributes may be set at a later time through scripts.

Now that you mention it, I'm not sure I stand by my initial
assessment. The main reason I still wouldn't use A here, is that I
generally use unqualified CSS styles for links, which would make all
of these uses look the same (though A NAME anchors can be empty).

--
Joost Diepenmaat | blog: http://joost.zeekat.nl/ | work: http://zeekat.nl/

[Prisoner at War]

Re: aPossible to Make A &quot;Dummy&quo t; Anchor Tag **without** Jumping BackUp???

On May 2, 6:13 pm, dorayme <doraymeRidT... @optusnet.com.a uwrote:

>
>
P@W, if you want to give extra information without cluttering but
without your users charging off to another page and having to come back
- the motivation for footnotes - then it is simple enough really.
Because, so it is told here in this church, a significant number of
people have javascript disabled, you can make them footnotes. You can
make the asterisks link to notes at the bottom of your page.
>
You can do this by <a href="#footnote 1">*</awhen you have also made
sure of identifying the footnote concerned at the end with something
like <p id="footnote1"> footnote1...</pYou can have a similar mechanism
at the footnote end, to take the reader back to the area of asterisk
they clicked so they can read on. There are some details and
considerations that I leave out.

Yes, I could use an HTML-only approach, of course, but that's so,
like, 1992!

The main thing, though, is that my site will be a "lifestyle
resource," let's say...and such a thing needs to be somewhat "glossy"
and not give the feel of a local church newsletter, if you understand
what I mean...visual effects to me are like body language -- they
communicate much, even if non-verbally...my site's success will in
large part depend on style in addition to substance (and, again, being
what it is, style is almost half-"substance" itself)....

Footnotes would only add to the visual clutter. They would be at the
bottom of the page and "train" my visitors to ignore that part of the
page. I don't think that's a good idea -- and again, it just wouldn't
look very elegant. I mean, a book with footnotes or endnotes is one
thing, but a webpage? BTW, these aren't "proper" or "real" footnotes,
either, citing works or something of the sort -- they are more like
quick and casual asides, too small for an actual sidebar but too large
for inclusion in the content proper....

Why don't you try this, it is thoroughly honest and decent and your
captors will have no option but to release you (I assume you are
prisoner at war in addition to being a prisoner of war: because you are
waging a private battle with your captors?)

LOL! I wage a war against society. I do not like the hypocrisy I see
around me.

Right now, though, I am in quite the designer's dilemma!

--
dorayme