How to make footer at the bottom in 5 box 3 columns layout

[Neal]

Re: How to make footer at the bottom in 5 box 3 columns layout

On 2 Mar 2004 10:11:27 -0800, Peter Diedrich <pdiedrich@gmx. de> wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> What you are talking about? Show me *one* site that produces a footer at
>> the bottom of each printed page.[/color]
>
> http://www.wired.com/animation/[/color]

That's a frameset.
[color=blue]
> ...plus thousands more. Stephen, tell us, which internet are you
> actually using? ;-)
>
>[color=green]
>> Yes - a footer at the bottom of each *web* page. Precisely. No problems
>> there.
>> But you were asking for a footer at the bottom of the *window* - weren't
>> you?[/color]
>
> Of course of every *web* page. Have I not posted to "authoring.html "?[/color]

See, here's the miscommunicatio n. The bottom of the webpage might not be
as far down as the bottom of the viewport. The "paper" might be as tall as
the viewport, shorter, or longer. Longer pages require us to scroll down.
Shorter pages have their bottom edge in the middle somewhere.

The reason it's so hard to adequately do what you ask is because unless
you have content that stretches it out, the page might not get to the
bottom edge.

Yes, other sites do this. It is done as a frameset or a table. It's my
opinion that either of those techniques will hurt you more than help you.
If you really have to do this, set up a frameset or do table layout.

But I don't see why it's such a crisis that a footer doesn't carry all the
way down. Don't you see, the pages aren't all the same size, even though
your viewport is the same size.
[color=blue]
> I am amazed how hardly someone can misunderstand what I want. I always
> thought, everybody would know what a footer is and where it has to be.
> I sincerely apologize for not being clear enough.
>
> Anybody out there who knows what a footer is and what I mean? Is it
> really THIS difficult?[/color]

1) Don't be rude, it will get you nowhere.

2) If I haven't gotten it here, and no one else has either, maybe the
fault lies not with everyone else but with you?

[Michael Wilcox]

Re: How to make footer at the bottom in 5 box 3 columns layout

Peter Diedrich <pdiedrich@gmx. de> wrote:[color=blue]
> No, have you actually ever tried IE6 together with the bottom:0px
> thing? It behaves ridiculous. The footer overlays the content.[/color]

bottom: 0; along with position: fixed; is supposed to overlay the content,
and that's what it does in FB as well. And yes, it is stupid in IE, but
that's no surprise.
[color=blue]
> Yes, either they say "NN4 or Mac IE go elsewhere"[/color]

Wrong.
[color=blue]
> If content is less to fill the browser THEN footer stay in the bottom
> of viewport ELSE footer should be at the end of the page (eventually
> out of the viewport)[/color]

The best I can do is what's on demo1 (
http://mikewilcox.curvedspaces.com/demo1.html ) right now. You can
experiment with different ammounts of content. There is a hack for IE in
there, sorry if you don't like it.
--
Michael Wilcox
mjwilco at yahoo dot com
Essential Tools for the Web Developer - http://mikewilcox.t35.com

[Neal]

Re: How to make footer at the bottom in 5 box 3 columns layout

On 2 Mar 2004 10:20:59 -0800, Peter Diedrich <pdiedrich@gmx. de> wrote:

[color=blue]
> This is the point. You are wrong. If a book's page is almost empty,
> the page counter will still sitting in the bottom and not in the
> middle of the page.
> The page may have the same physical height, but the text has not. Any
> my "page" is the FIXED browser window height. At least the browser
> window height is normally fixed during a surf session.[/color]

Some of my books are 9 inches tall, and the page number is about 8 1/2
inches from the top. Other books are 5" tall, and the page number is
closer to the top. Now, if I was reading through an 8" wide by 6" high
hole, the first book would be taller (and maybe wider) than the
"viewport", and I'd have to "scroll down" to see the page number. Reading
the second book, the page number would not be at the bottom of my
"viewport" as the content does not reach that far!

With paper, we control the display. With webpages, we do not. That's why
this comparison is flawed.

Let go of the idea that printed media is a literal model to follow. It's
like trying to use an oilpaint knife with pastels. It's the wrong
technique for that medium.

[Barry Pearson]

Re: How to make footer at the bottom in 5 box 3 columns layout

Peter Diedrich wrote:
[snip][color=blue]
> I am amazed how hardly someone can misunderstand what I want. I always
> thought, everybody would know what a footer is and where it has to be.
> I sincerely apologize for not being clear enough.
>
> Anybody out there who knows what a footer is and what I mean? Is it
> really THIS difficult?[/color]

I suggest you simply make it clear what you mean, and stop the debate. (If you
don't, people will rightly draw their own conclusions).

By "footer", do you mean some material at the bottom of the web page? In other
words, rendering after all other content of the web page? If you mean this,
you have a *very* strong case. This is a very sensible & important
requirement.

Or do you mean some material that you want to be positioned (where possible)
at the end of the viewport? This is *vastly* different. And if you mean this,
you face some serious questions. There is little logic for that, and it might
confuse some users.

--
Barry Pearson

http://www.Barry.Pearson.name/photography/

http://www.BirdsAndAnimals.info/

http://www.ChildSupportAnalysis.co.uk/

[Mark Parnell]

Re: How to make footer at the bottom in 5 box 3 columns layout

On 2 Mar 2004 09:57:22 -0800, pdiedrich@gmx.d e (Peter Diedrich) declared
in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html:
[color=blue]
> On the other hand there are so many sites which can
> do it. So how, pleeeease?[/color]

If there are so many sites that do it, find one and steal their course
code. If you are having so much trouble finding a way to do it, there
can't be that many out there that have achieved it.

--
Mark Parnell

http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au

[Barry Pearson]

Re: How to make footer at the bottom in 5 box 3 columns layout

Harlan Messinger wrote:
[snip][color=blue]
> Are you saying that millions of web designers around the world are
> wrong to be doing it the way virtually all of them do it, and only
> you have the Correct, Enlightened approach? 'Cause if everyone were
> doing it the way you say is the correct way, then surely you would
> have found millions of resources telling you how to do it, and all
> the major browsers would support it.[/color]
[snip]

If there are millions of web designers involved in 5-box 3-column layouts,
then their consensus is:

- A banner at the top. This identifies the web site. Below this:

- 3 columns, typically site-navigation, an article, and side-notes (for
supplementary material) on the right.

- Adminstrative material at the bottom of the content, where it is available
if needed, but doesn't otherwise clutter up the main view.

That is how I read the original post. If that was the intent, it makes lots of
sense. It is a web equivalent of rather different layout on paper, but
catering for the special nature of the web. It works very well.

Trying to fit things into the viewport is very dodgy. The CSS2 recommendation
attempted this, and frankly screwed up. See:

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visuren.html#fixed-positioning

I put their proposal into a web page, and it doesn't work properly:

http://www.barry.pearson.name/articles/layout_tables/w3c_css2_example.htm

I don't think those W3C people were really into page layout!

--
Barry Pearson

http://www.Barry.Pearson.name/photography/

http://www.BirdsAndAnimals.info/

http://www.ChildSupportAnalysis.co.uk/

[Peter Diedrich]

Re: How to make footer at the bottom in 5 box 3 columns layout

> Why do you think a browser is supposed to look like a book?

Well... why not (regarding the footer)? Again, please do not ride on
definitions. I just wanted a footer, not endless debates. Why are you
chatting around about this and that. If you do not have a solution for
the OP, stop chatting in this thread, please.

[color=blue]
> Are you saying that millions of web designers around the world are wrong to
> be doing it the way virtually all of them do it, and only you have the
> Correct, Enlightened approach? 'Cause if everyone were doing it the way you
> say is the correct way, then surely you would have found millions of
> resources telling you how to do it, and all the major browsers would support
> it.[/color]

I do not understand what you mean, but *I* like a footer at the bottom
of the browser. Period.

[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > By invoking
> > > Word you are not explaining why you think that in a browser window, the
> > > footer should appear fixed at the bottom of the window instead of[/color][/color]
> flowing at[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > the bottom of the document.[/color][/color][/color]

Must I explain the reason why want the footer at the botton before I
get the answer how to do it?

[color=blue]
> Then you must be horrified by all the short pages you see on the web.[/color]

Depends on the layout. If the footer would have a dark background,
indeed I would be horrorfied.

[color=blue]
> Apparently those of us you're conversing with here don't thing anything is
> wrong with it.[/color]

I never asked for other opinions with my OP. Just for a trick to do
footers.

I give up now. What strange forum here. I am impressed by the
responsiveness on the one hand but what is it worth if the net output
is below zero?! Just look at this thread from the beginning and you
all will shake your heads.

Have a nice day.

Peter.

[Neal]

Re: How to make footer at the bottom in 5 box 3 columns layout

On 2 Mar 2004 15:26:46 -0800, Peter Diedrich <pdiedrich@gmx. de> wrote:
[color=blue]
> I never asked for other opinions with my OP. Just for a trick to do
> footers.[/color]

And I've given you two. Tables and framesets.
[color=blue]
> I give up now. What strange forum here. I am impressed by the
> responsiveness on the one hand but what is it worth if the net output
> is below zero?! Just look at this thread from the beginning and you
> all will shake your heads.
>
> Have a nice day.[/color]

Either you are a troll or you really have no clue that I gave you two
solutions to your problem.

[Mark Parnell]

Re: How to make footer at the bottom in 5 box 3 columns layout

On 2 Mar 2004 15:26:46 -0800, pdiedrich@gmx.d e (Peter Diedrich) declared
in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html:
[color=blue]
> If you do not have a solution for the OP, stop chatting in this thread, please.[/color]

Sorry, this is Usenet. Or did I miss the post where you sent us your
credit card details?
[color=blue]
> Must I explain the reason why want the footer at the botton before I
> get the answer how to do it?[/color]

You have already been given the possible solutions numerous times, along
with the problems they cause.
[color=blue]
> Depends on the layout. If the footer would have a dark background,
> indeed I would be horrorfied.[/color]

So give the page a dark background too. Then if the page is longer than
the viewport, there's no difference, if it is shorter than the viewport
the footer doesn't look out of place.
[color=blue]
> I never asked for other opinions with my OP. Just for a trick to do
> footers.[/color]

Again, this is Usenet. Not your 24-hour helpdesk.
[color=blue]
> I give up now. What strange forum here. I am impressed by the
> responsiveness on the one hand but what is it worth if the net output
> is below zero?! Just look at this thread from the beginning and you
> all will shake your heads.[/color]

Indeed I am. You have been told that it isn't a good idea to even try.
You have also been given the possible solutions, but you just don't want
to listen. If you want someone to tell you what you want to hear, pay
them.
[color=blue]
> Have a nice day.[/color]

I will. :-)

--
Mark Parnell

http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au

[Alan J. Flavell]

Re: How to make footer at the bottom in 5 box 3 columns layout

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Peter Diedrich wrote:
[color=blue]
> I give up now. What strange forum here. I am impressed by the
> responsiveness on the one hand but what is it worth if the net output
> is below zero?! Just look at this thread from the beginning and you
> all will shake your heads.[/color]

The discussion seems to have been compleely wasted on you.
Usenet has a logical way of dealing with that. Bye.

--
Maybe footers of books should be at the bottom of the bookcase. -Kris

[Jan Roland Eriksson]

Re: How to make footer at the bottom in 5 box 3 columns layout

On 2 Mar 2004 09:57:22 -0800, pdiedrich@gmx.d e (Peter Diedrich) wrote:

[...]
[color=blue]
>It would be soooo great if instead of chatting funny things about
>everything senseless, that someone could *finally* help with the
>problem...[/color]

Since it seems like the rest of the thread is getting tired of you,
would you settle for this example and then go away into contemplation
for a while?

http://www.css.nu/exp/nf-illustration.html

This page has its flaws in some areas but it should give you a hint on
how to tackle your specific "problem" (and also why it will not work in
all places)

The page it self is also a very good trigger of MS-IE bugs, i.e. it just
does not work as intended in any known version of MS-IE. Still, the
example page conforms to HTML and CSS rec's and can be viewed as
intended in at least Mozilla and Opera.

--
Rex

[Stephen Poley]

Re: How to make footer at the bottom in 5 box 3 columns layout

On 2 Mar 2004 10:36:27 -0800, pdiedrich@gmx.d e (Peter Diedrich) wrote:
[color=blue]
>Yes, this would exactly be my definition. A page should work on IE4.
>Gotcha :-)
>
>I would be attracted to bet with you a Whopper that more people are
>using IE4 vs. a text browser.[/color]

The difference being that people using IE4 have, by and large, the
option of upgrading to another graphical browser. Whereas many people
using a text browser or analogous technology are doing so because they
do not have the option of upgrading or restoring their eyesight. That
difference is important.

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/

[Stephen Poley]

Re: How to make footer at the bottom in 5 box 3 columns layout

On 2 Mar 2004 10:11:27 -0800, pdiedrich@gmx.d e (Peter Diedrich) wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Actually no. I don't see a status bar, or any other sort of footer.
>> Though it's true I could put one there if I wanted to.
>> But your question was about documents within the browser window, so what
>> is your point?[/color]
>
>You definitely know what I mean.[/color]

Your use of terms is so loose that I am really beginning to doubt that
*you* know what you mean.

[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>> >* Look at 90% of industry standard websites. What do you see? A footer
>> >at the bottom of each page[/color]
>>
>> What you are talking about? Show me *one* site that produces a footer at
>> the bottom of each printed page.[/color]
>
>http://www.wired.com/animation/[/color]

You mean the yellow bar? I'm not sure exactly what this page is doing,
but when I change my paper size, that bar comes out at the top of the
next page, so it's not a printed-page footer.
[color=blue]
>...plus thousands more.[/color]

Odd you failed to show me one, then.

[color=blue][color=green]
>> Yes - a footer at the bottom of each *web* page. Precisely. No problems
>> there.
>> But you were asking for a footer at the bottom of the *window* - weren't
>> you?[/color]
>
>Of course of every *web* page. Have I not posted to "authoring.html "?[/color]

Let's just try to get this straight. Do you actually understand the
difference between the following concepts:

- a GUI window
- a web page
- a printed page.

Because it very much looks as if you don't, given the way you muddle
them up in your posts.

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/

[Kris]

Re: How to make footer at the bottom in 5 box 3 columns layout

In article <8205d6ad.04030 21526.40be7f4@p osting.google.c om>,
pdiedrich@gmx.d e (Peter Diedrich) wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
> > Why do you think a browser is supposed to look like a book?[/color]
>
> Well... why not (regarding the footer)? Again, please do not ride on
> definitions. I just wanted a footer, not endless debates. Why are you
> chatting around about this and that. If you do not have a solution for
> the OP, stop chatting in this thread, please.[/color]

You confuse Usenet for a helpdesk.
[color=blue]
> Must I explain the reason why want the footer at the botton before I
> get the answer how to do it?[/color]

You are a designer, aren't you? Oh wait, you are an _artist_. [bows]

--
Kris
<kristiaan@xs4a ll.netherlands> (nl)
<http://www.cinnamon.nl/>

[Mark Parnell]

Re: How to make footer at the bottom in 5 box 3 columns layout

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:06:29 +0100, Stephen Poley
<sbpoleySpicedH amTrap@xs4all.n l> declared in
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html:
[color=blue]
> The difference being that people using IE4 have, by and large, the
> option of upgrading to another graphical browser.[/color]

....and no doubt will do as time goes on. Even if there are more users of
IE4 than text browsers at the moment, the market share of IE4 is only
going to go down, while that of text browsers is likely to increase.

--
Mark Parnell

http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au