difference between h1 and title

[Stan Brown]

Re: difference between h1 and title

In article <Xns944EBD930B4 6Fjkorpelacstut fi@193.229.0.31 > in
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:[color=blue]
>Navigation links shouldn't be there but at the end
>of the page, perhaps positioned visually in the upper right corner or,
>to follow suit when playing the Navigation Game, on the left. (That's
>relatively easy to do using CSS.)[/color]

I've always accepted that as received wisdom, until tonight when I
set out to do it. I would like to put my navigation links physically
at the end of each page, so that e.g. Google results will be more
meaningful for users; but I've been unable to figure out how to do
this easy thing.

I was unable to find any page (from the group of frequent posters
here whom I respect) that actually puts navigation links at the end
but uses CSS to position them at the start. I cobbled up
something[1] myself using position:absolu te on both body and the
<div> containing my navigation links, but the table inside the div
lost its own positioning.[2] And from "index dot css"[3] I read that
position:absolu te is problematic in IE and Netscape.

So could you perhaps explain just how to do this "easy" thing, or
point me toward some example where it actually works?

[1] http://www.acad.sunytccc.edu/instruc...nce/listpr.htm

[2] Yes, I know I shouldn't be using a table this way. That's the
next thing I intend to change, after I get this issue resolved.

[3]

http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/css/properties/classify/position.h

tm
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA

http://OakRoadSystems.com/

HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/
2.1 changes: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/changes.html
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Re: difference between h1 and title

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown @fastmail.fm> wrote:
[color=blue]
> I was unable to find any page (from the group of frequent posters
> here whom I respect) that actually puts navigation links at the end
> but uses CSS to position them at the start.[/color]

I don't _use_ such style much but I have a demo of the concept:

http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/styles/layout.html

The details would best be discussed in c.i.w.a.stylesh eets, and the
details depend on the desired type of positioning and the content being
positioned. But it's reasonably on-topic here, I suppose, to discuss
the overall _feasibility_ of the idea. After all, if the styling does
not work sufficiently well, authors will want to keep using old habits
and markup.
[color=blue]
> And from "index dot css"[3] I read
> that position:absolu te is problematic in IE and Netscape.[/color]

Basically, on IE 4 and Netscape 4, which are getting more and more
marginal. But some care is needed if you position anything but
<div> elements - actually, it might be best to wrap the element being
positioned inside a <div> anyway.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html

[Tilman Hesse]

Re: difference between h1 and title

(Stan Brown in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html)
[color=blue]
>I was unable to find any page (from the group of frequent posters
>here whom I respect) that actually puts navigation links at the end
>but uses CSS to position them at the start.[/color]

I don't know about the respect, but my page does just as requested:

http://www.attac.de/jena/

Another one (for testing) http://www.attac.de/jena/tests/index2.htm



Tilman
--
Der statistische Tote ist dir eal. Der stochastische Tote bist du selber.

[Stan Brown]

Links at end of page repositioned to top (Re: difference between h1 and title)

In article <3fdc6a99_1@new s.arcor-ip.de> in
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, Tilman Hesse wrote:
[color=blue]
>(Stan Brown in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html)[color=green]
>>I was unable to find any page (from the group of frequent posters
>>here whom I respect) that actually puts navigation links at the end
>>but uses CSS to position them at the start.[/color]
>
>I don't know about the respect, but my page does just as requested:
>http://www.attac.de/jena/[/color]

I appreciate the link, showing a different approach from Jukka's.
You also wrap the content in a big <div>, but position that
_relatively_. Is there a reason you have two separate navigation
<div>s, the first unpositioned and the second positioned absolutely?
I don't understand why you position the second one absolutely rather
than just let it flow.
[color=blue]
>Another one (for testing) http://www.attac.de/jena/tests/index2.htm[/color]

This is interesting, too. Thank you.

What was wrong with my efforts, I think, is that I tried to position
<body> and a <div> that was contained in that body. You and Jukka
both have separate <div>s that are children of the same <body>. This
gives me something to work with.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA

http://OakRoadSystems.com/

HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/
2.1 changes: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/changes.html
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

[Stan Brown]

Links at end of page repositioned to top (Re: difference between h1 and title)

In article <Xns945170CBEA0 79jkorpelacstut fi@193.229.0.31 > in
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:[color=blue]
>Stan Brown <the_stan_brown @fastmail.fm> wrote:[color=green]
>> I was unable to find any page (from the group of frequent posters
>> here whom I respect) that actually puts navigation links at the end
>> but uses CSS to position them at the start.[/color]
>
>I don't _use_ such style much but I have a demo of the concept:
>http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/styles/layout.html[/color]

Interesting -- you wrap all the page content in a big <div>,
position that absolutely, and let the (unpositioned) links take up
the space that is unused.

What was wrong with my efforts, I think, is that I tried to position
<body> and a <div> that was contained in that body. You and Tilman
both have separate <div>s that are children of the same <body>. This
gives me something to work with.
[color=blue]
>The details would best be discussed in c.i.w.a.stylesh eets,[/color]

Agreed; f'ups redirected.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA

http://OakRoadSystems.com/

HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/
2.1 changes: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/changes.html
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

[Nick Kew]

Re: difference between h1 and title

In article <MPG.1a45b85d7e 612c5a98b961@ne ws.odyssey.net> , one of infinite monkeys
at the keyboard of Stan Brown <the_stan_brown @fastmail.fm> wrote:
[color=blue]
> I was unable to find any page (from the group of frequent posters
> here whom I respect) that actually puts navigation links at the end
> but uses CSS to position them at the start.[/color]

Both valet.webthing. com and apache.webthing .com do that, using slightly
different variants on the principle. But I know that leaves users of
CSS-crippled browsers with a different presentation, which may not be
what you want.

--
Nick Kew

In urgent need of paying work - see http://www.webthing.com/~nick/cv.html