IE Scrollbars

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  • CJM
    #1

    IE Scrollbars

    I've been trying to tweak the design of a few pages in one of my ASP apps...

    I'm making sure that the layout is reasonable for resolutions between
    800x600 and 1024x768. Since it's almost all forms (rather than text) it
    takes a bit of extra effort to find the right balance.

    At the higher resolution, everything is fine. When I reduce the IE window to
    800x600 (via bookmarklet), I'm getting both horizontal and vertical
    scrollbars; the vertical scrollbars are to be expected since the forms are
    longer than the screen, however the forms should be narrow enough to fit
    into you typical 800x600 browser window.

    Having puzzled over what was taking up the extra horizontal space, after
    testing in Mozilla and Opera, I've just realised that the content is how I
    want it, but that IE has taken it upon itself to kindly at a horizontal
    scrollbar! Mozilla and Opera only show each axis' scrollbar when necessary.
    With IE it's all or nothing.

    So the question is... can I do anything about this? Or is this a compulsory
    IE 'feature'?

    Thanks in advance

    Chris


    Tags: None
    • Steve Pugh
      #2
      Re: IE Scrollbars

      "CJM" <cjmwork@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:
      [color=blue]
      >At the higher resolution, everything is fine. When I reduce the IE window to
      >800x600 (via bookmarklet), I'm getting both horizontal and vertical
      >scrollbars; the vertical scrollbars are to be expected since the forms are
      >longer than the screen, however the forms should be narrow enough to fit
      >into you typical 800x600 browser window.
      >
      >Having puzzled over what was taking up the extra horizontal space, after
      >testing in Mozilla and Opera, I've just realised that the content is how I
      >want it, but that IE has taken it upon itself to kindly at a horizontal
      >scrollbar! Mozilla and Opera only show each axis' scrollbar when necessary.
      >With IE it's all or nothing.[/color]

      Not usually, but in some circumstances.

      There are also some bugs in the way IE calculates total page widths
      that can cause horizontal scrollbars to appear unexpectedly.
      [color=blue]
      >So the question is... can I do anything about this? Or is this a compulsory
      >IE 'feature'?[/color]

      Are you using frames?
      Are the pages within the frames using a doctype that triggers
      standards mode?
      If so then yes, it's all or nothing.

      Otherwise post a URL.

      Steve

      --
      "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
      I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

      Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net > <http://steve.pugh.net/>

        Comment

        • CJM
          #3
          Re: IE Scrollbars


          "Steve Pugh" <steve@pugh.net > wrote in message
          news:u0hkqvccpt favn6bplbv74ogi eain8hglo@4ax.c om...[color=blue]
          > Are you using frames?
          > Are the pages within the frames using a doctype that triggers
          > standards mode?
          > If so then yes, it's all or nothing.[/color]

          Yes, I'm using frames with the 4.01 Transitional DOCTYPE.
          [color=blue]
          > Otherwise post a URL.[/color]

          It's an intranet app. At the moment, I can't even post a mock-up, since all
          ftp traffic is currently blocked!

          [sigh] I guess I will just have to endure it.

          Cheers

          Chris


            Comment

            • Steve Pugh
              #4
              Re: IE Scrollbars

              "CJM" <cjmwork@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:
              [color=blue]
              >
              >"Steve Pugh" <steve@pugh.net > wrote in message
              >news:u0hkqvccp tfavn6bplbv74og ieain8hglo@4ax. com...[color=green]
              >> Are you using frames?
              >> Are the pages within the frames using a doctype that triggers
              >> standards mode?
              >> If so then yes, it's all or nothing.[/color]
              >
              >Yes, I'm using frames with the 4.01 Transitional DOCTYPE.[/color]

              Which 4.01 Transtional Doctype?
              Some trigger standards mode and some don't.

              Steve


              --
              "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
              I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

              Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net > <http://steve.pugh.net/>

                Comment

                • CJM
                  #5
                  Re: IE Scrollbars

                  "Steve Pugh" <steve@pugh.net > wrote in message
                  news:8ulkqvse7r 4k6q0u6pgrleh6a 5153atkbv@4ax.c om...[color=blue][color=green]
                  > >
                  > >Yes, I'm using frames with the 4.01 Transitional DOCTYPE.[/color]
                  >
                  > Which 4.01 Transtional Doctype?
                  > Some trigger standards mode and some don't.[/color]

                  Sorry Steve, I should have been explicit:

                  With DTD - hence I am triggering Standards Mode

                  <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
                  "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">


                    Comment

                    • Steve Pugh
                      #6
                      Re: IE Scrollbars

                      "CJM" <cjmwork@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:
                      [color=blue]
                      >"Steve Pugh" <steve@pugh.net > wrote in message
                      >news:8ulkqvse7 r4k6q0u6pgrleh6 a5153atkbv@4ax. com...[color=green][color=darkred]
                      >> >
                      >> >Yes, I'm using frames with the 4.01 Transitional DOCTYPE.[/color]
                      >>
                      >> Which 4.01 Transtional Doctype?
                      >> Some trigger standards mode and some don't.[/color]
                      >
                      >Sorry Steve, I should have been explicit:
                      >
                      >With DTD - hence I am triggering Standards Mode
                      >
                      ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
                      >"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">[/color]

                      Yeah that will do it.

                      In Standards mode IE6 treats scrolling="auto " as something that
                      switches between scrolling="yes" (both scrollbars visible) and
                      scrolling="no" (no scrollbars visible) as required.

                      In Quirks mode IE6 treats scrolling="auto " as if it was an unframed
                      page and includes each scrollbar separately as needed.

                      There isn't really anything in the spec to support this behaviour:
                      Frames in HTML documents
                      http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/present/frames.html#adef-scrolling

                      so it just has to be put down as one of thise crazy MS things. Unless
                      anyone knows better?

                      In your case you can either learn to live with it, or drop the URI
                      from the doctype, thus triggering Quirks mode and all the other
                      changes that entails.

                      Steve

                      --
                      "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
                      I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

                      Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net > <http://steve.pugh.net/>

                        Comment

                        • CJM
                          #7
                          Re: IE Scrollbars

                          "Steve Pugh" <steve@pugh.net > wrote in message
                          news:0onkqvk2o9 f2ecke079mc6pcl 71p8c06g3@4ax.c om...
                          [color=blue]
                          > There isn't really anything in the spec to support this behaviour:
                          > http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/present...adef-scrolling
                          > so it just has to be put down as one of thise crazy MS things. Unless
                          > anyone knows better?[/color]

                          I'd be delighted if someone *did* know better, but I suspect not.
                          [color=blue]
                          >
                          > In your case you can either learn to live with it, or drop the URI
                          > from the doctype, thus triggering Quirks mode and all the other
                          > changes that entails.
                          >
                          > Steve
                          >[/color]

                          Seems to be two steps forwards and another backwards.

                          Going back to quirks mode would be a retrograde step, so we'll suffer the
                          Standards-mode 'quirks' (Irony?). The system will be replaced within 15mths,
                          so a no-frames re-write isnt justified.

                          If anything, it will serve as further justification for avoiding frames -
                          you wouldnt think I'd be short of ammo on that score, but you havent met my
                          bosses...!

                          Cheers

                          Chris


                            Comment

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