Fixing text at relative position down a page?

[Nige]

I've just given one of my sites (www.wealdbroadband.co.uk) an overhaul.

Anyone know if there is a way of fixing text at a certain relative
position down a page? I'd like the "(c) 2003 ..." notice to appear at
the same place as you go through the pages, but it varies if you alter
the window width and cause a line to wrap/unwrap.


--
Nige

Please replace YYYY with the current year
ille quis mortem cum maximus ludos, vincat

[Stan Brown]

Re: Fixing text at relative position down a page?

In article <c0m0ov05m8a8j7 2vium2f7g7l7oem 1o5kd@4ax.com> in
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, Nige <uYYYY@ntlworld .com>
wrote:[color=blue]
> I'd like the "(c) 2003 ..." notice to appear at
>the same place as you go through the pages,[/color]

Why? Do you seriously expect people to flip from page to page and
focus on where the copyright notice is on their screen?

If they do, I think your Web site has much bigger problems.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA

http://OakRoadSystems.com/

HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/
2.1 changes: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/changes.html
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

[Macie]

Re: Fixing text at relative position down a page?

On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 19:50:12 -0400, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown @fastmail.fm> wrote:
[color=blue]
>In article <c0m0ov05m8a8j7 2vium2f7g7l7oem 1o5kd@4ax.com> in
>comp.infosyste ms.www.authoring.html, Nige <uYYYY@ntlworld .com>
>wrote:[color=green]
>> I'd like the "(c) 2003 ..." notice to appear at
>>the same place as you go through the pages,[/color]
>
>Why? Do you seriously expect people to flip from page to page and
>focus on where the copyright notice is on their screen?[/color]

I would have thought that it would add to consistency, in much the
same way that a footer in a Word document appears - get it wrong and
it just looks untidy.

--

Macie
ZZR600E1

[William Tasso]

Re: Fixing text at relative position down a page?

Macie wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 19:50:12 -0400, Stan Brown
> <the_stan_brown @fastmail.fm> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> In article <c0m0ov05m8a8j7 2vium2f7g7l7oem 1o5kd@4ax.com> in
>> comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, Nige <uYYYY@ntlworld .com>
>> wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> I'd like the "(c) 2003 ..." notice to appear at
>>> the same place as you go through the pages,[/color]
>>
>> Why? Do you seriously expect people to flip from page to page and
>> focus on where the copyright notice is on their screen?[/color]
>
> I would have thought that it would add to consistency, in much the
> same way that a footer in a Word document appears -[/color]

Word processors are designed to produce their output on a fixed size medium.
[color=blue]
> get it wrong and
> it just looks untidy.[/color]

the internet is indeed an uncomfortable environment for obsessive 'tidyer
uppers' ;o)

--
William Tasso - http://WilliamTasso.com

[Kris]

Re: Fixing text at relative position down a page?

In article <osg1ovgiqrgu1q u5uuu2s01f5vted 6va9d@4ax.com>,
Macie <me@privacy.net > wrote:
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> I'd like the "(c) 2003 ..." notice to appear at
> >>the same place as you go through the pages,[/color]
> >
> >Why? Do you seriously expect people to flip from page to page and
> >focus on where the copyright notice is on their screen?[/color]
>
> I would have thought that it would add to consistency, in much the
> same way that a footer in a Word document appears - get it wrong and
> it just looks untidy.[/color]

web != paper

--
Kris
kristiaan@xs4al l.netherlands (nl)

[Thor Kottelin]

Re: Fixing text at relative position down a page?



Kris wrote:[color=blue]
>
> In article <osg1ovgiqrgu1q u5uuu2s01f5vted 6va9d@4ax.com>,
> Macie <me@privacy.net > wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> > >> I'd like the "(c) 2003 ..." notice to appear at
> > >>the same place as you go through the pages,
> > >
> > >Why? Do you seriously expect people to flip from page to page and
> > >focus on where the copyright notice is on their screen?[/color]
> >
> > I would have thought that it would add to consistency, in much the
> > same way that a footer in a Word document appears - get it wrong and
> > it just looks untidy.[/color]
>
> web != paper[/color]

OTOH, we do have @media print.

Thor

--

http://thorweb.anta.net/

[Barbara de Zoete]

Re: Fixing text at relative position down a page?

Macie schreef:
[color=blue]
> On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 19:50:12 -0400, Stan Brown
> <the_stan_brown @fastmail.fm> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>In article <c0m0ov05m8a8j7 2vium2f7g7l7oem 1o5kd@4ax.com> in
>>comp.infosyst ems.www.authoring.html, Nige <uYYYY@ntlworld .com>
>>wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>I'd like the "(c) 2003 ..." notice to appear at
>>>the same place as you go through the pages,[/color]
>>
>>Why? Do you seriously expect people to flip from page to page and
>>focus on where the copyright notice is on their screen?[/color]
>
> I would have thought that it would add to consistency, in much the
> same way that a footer in a Word document appears - get it wrong and
> it just looks untidy.[/color]

Macie, unlike many others here, I understand where this is coming from
and I partially agree with you. Wanting a consistent lay out is not by
definition wrong. It gives peace to the eyes of your visitor if s/he can
rely on where the various elements of your pages are throughout the
site. If elements seem to jump vertically or horizontally between pages,
it can be rather anoying.

Please keep in mind, what makes the lay out of your pages consistent and
what (dominant) elements you should consider in this. It might be that
the copyright notice is just too small and insignificant to bother. Your
visitor might not even consider it to be part of the lay out at all.

But if you still want it done, position:fixed; would be nice, but
unfortunately doesn't work well in IE.

Unfortunately I don't _really_ have a solution for your problem. Maybe
try (options just an example):

..copyright
{
display:block;
position:absolu te;
top:480px; /* just some distance; keep in mind you
don't know the resolution of the screen
of you visitors! Maybe rely on percentage
here */
margin: 0 auto 2em auto; /* to get it centered */
}

Next to that, with a position:absolu te; you get the copyright notice to
be displayed at the same spot in every page, but you cannot predict
exactly at what 'hight' in the screen this will be, neither can you
predict if the positioning will overlap for example your main content.
Tricky.

Maybe add a menu item in the top of your page that refers to the
copyrights and take the notice out of the bottom of the pages? Ever
considered that?

--

Barbara

http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/weblog.html *Dagboek*
http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html *Zweefvliegen*?

[Eric Bohlman]

Re: Fixing text at relative position down a page?

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown @fastmail.fm> wrote in
news:MPG.19ea78 41804f163398b4e 0@news.odyssey. net:
[color=blue]
> In article <c0m0ov05m8a8j7 2vium2f7g7l7oem 1o5kd@4ax.com> in
> comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, Nige <uYYYY@ntlworld .com>
> wrote:[color=green]
>> I'd like the "(c) 2003 ..." notice to appear at
>>the same place as you go through the pages,[/color]
>
> Why? Do you seriously expect people to flip from page to page and
> focus on where the copyright notice is on their screen?
>
> If they do, I think your Web site has much bigger problems.[/color]

I think it's an XY problem. My guess is that he wants to make sure that
the copyright notice isn't distracting to readers. Keeping it in a fixed
position is one possible way of doing that, but it's not the only one.

Copyright or trademark notices that stick out too much can subjectively
ruin a site by making the user feel like he's being scolded. For legal
reasons, they need to be present, but they also need to be kept in the
background of the reader's perceptions. Otherwise you wind up with the
Monty Python sketch about Anne Elk and her theory about the brontosaurus,
where the chief impression conveyed by the interview with John Cleese in
drag is that the theory is hers and not anybody else's.

[Alan J. Flavell]

Re: Fixing text at relative position down a page?

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, William Tasso wrote:
[color=blue]
> Word processors are designed to produce their output on a fixed size medium.[/color]

But MS Word can do a pretty good job of "marking up" with logical
styles, and then attaching different style templates to the content
for different purposes.

That also makes a good starting point for conversion to a web format,
as long as you keep well away from any web-conversion software which
comes from the vendor.

cheers

[Stephen Poley]

Re: Fixing text at relative position down a page?

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 02:23:31 +0100, Macie <me@privacy.net > wrote:
[color=blue]
>On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 19:50:12 -0400, Stan Brown
><the_stan_brow n@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>In article <c0m0ov05m8a8j7 2vium2f7g7l7oem 1o5kd@4ax.com> in
>>comp.infosyst ems.www.authoring.html, Nige <uYYYY@ntlworld .com>
>>wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> I'd like the "(c) 2003 ..." notice to appear at
>>>the same place as you go through the pages,[/color]
>>
>>Why? Do you seriously expect people to flip from page to page and
>>focus on where the copyright notice is on their screen?[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
>I would have thought that it would add to consistency, in much the
>same way that a footer in a Word document appears - get it wrong and
>it just looks untidy.[/color]

I think that's a good example. When I read a Word document on the
screen, the footer appears at the bottom of the page. Which might be
anywhere on the screen. Why would you need a web page to do something
different?

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/

[Macie]

Re: Fixing text at relative position down a page?

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:54:26 +0200, Barbara de Zoete
<b_de_zoete@hot mail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Macie schreef:
>[color=green]
>> On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 19:50:12 -0400, Stan Brown
>> <the_stan_brown @fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>In article <c0m0ov05m8a8j7 2vium2f7g7l7oem 1o5kd@4ax.com> in
>>>comp.infosys tems.www.authoring.html, Nige <uYYYY@ntlworld .com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'd like the "(c) 2003 ..." notice to appear at
>>>>the same place as you go through the pages,
>>>[/color][/color][/color]

<<snipped stuff>>
[color=blue]
>Macie, unlike many others here, I understand where this is coming from
>and I partially agree with you. Wanting a consistent lay out is not by
>definition wrong. It gives peace to the eyes of your visitor if s/he can
>rely on where the various elements of your pages are throughout the
>site. If elements seem to jump vertically or horizontally between pages,
>it can be rather anoying.[/color]

[color=blue]
>But if you still want it done, position:fixed; would be nice, but
>unfortunatel y doesn't work well in IE.
>
>Unfortunatel y I don't _really_ have a solution for your problem. Maybe
>try (options just an example):
>
>.copyright
>{
> display:block;
> position:absolu te;
> top:480px; /* just some distance; keep in mind you
> don't know the resolution of the screen
> of you visitors! Maybe rely on percentage
> here */
> margin: 0 auto 2em auto; /* to get it centered */
>}
>
>Next to that, with a position:absolu te; you get the copyright notice to
>be displayed at the same spot in every page, but you cannot predict
>exactly at what 'hight' in the screen this will be, neither can you
>predict if the positioning will overlap for example your main content.
>Tricky.
>
>Maybe add a menu item in the top of your page that refers to the
>copyrights and take the notice out of the bottom of the pages? Ever
>considered that?[/color]

Well, although I wasn't the OP the subject did interest me as I am
weaning myself off WYSIWIG editors trying to learn code mainly by the
'running through glue' method of constantly changing bits of pages to
see what happens.

Positioning on pages is currently my #1 grief at the moment, so I
shall have a play with your suggestions.

Cheers
--

Macie
ZZR600E1

[Barbara de Zoete]

Re: Fixing text at relative position down a page?

Macie schreef:[color=blue]
> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:54:26 +0200, Barbara de Zoete
> <b_de_zoete@hot mail.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Macie, unlike many others here, I understand where this is coming from[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> Well, although I wasn't the OP[/color]

Oops, sorry about that ! :-(

--

Barbara

http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/weblog.html *Dagboek*
http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html *Zweefvliegen*?

[Stan Brown]

Re: Fixing text at relative position down a page?

In article <c0q2ovgu1mif4p qh9037ls10sqa2j 86rdq@4ax.com> in
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, Macie <me@privacy.net > wrote:[color=blue]
>Positioning on pages is currently my #1 grief at the moment, so I
>shall have a play with your suggestions.[/color]

I think it's a #1 grief for a lot of people.

Those of us who are proficient with MS-Word or anything else that's
good at page layout, have a hard job remembering that the Web just
doesn't work that way. It's like trying to build a railroad bridge
out of cream cheese.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA

http://OakRoadSystems.com/

HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/
2.1 changes: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/changes.html
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

[Barry Pearson]

Re: Fixing text at relative position down a page?

Eric Bohlman wrote:
[snip][color=blue]
> I think it's an XY problem. My guess is that he wants to make sure
> that the copyright notice isn't distracting to readers. Keeping it
> in a fixed position is one possible way of doing that, but it's not
> the only one.[/color]
[snip]

I have that requirement in my photograph pages. So I just push the admin down
a bit with a "margin-top".

--
Barry Pearson

http://www.Barry.Pearson.name/photography/

http://www.BirdsAndAnimals.info/

http://www.ChildSupportAnalysis.co.uk/