Is a Login Form "Tabular Data"

[Pavel Lepin]

Re: Is a Login Form "Tabula r Data"


Sanders Kaufman <bucky@kaufman. netwrote in
<_%6Bi.234$7P7. 189@newssvr19.n ews.prodigy.net >:

Michael Fesser wrote:

>That's a _recommendation _, nothing more. The important
>words here are "SHOULD NOT" - it's not a "MUST NOT".
>That's a big difference.

>
Actually, it's a teeny tiny itsy bitsy difference, but I
get the point.

Actually, it's a *precisely* defined difference. RFC 2119.
Note that RFC 2119 is in Normative references section of
HTML 4.01 spec:

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/references.html#h-1.1

The Conformance section of the spec explicitly refers to it:

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/conform.html

>>- and
>>they violate the spec.

>>
>Definitely wrong.
>It may be bad practice, but it _doesn't_ violate any
>spec.

>
That depends on how your definition of "violate the spec".

Violation of the spec is *precisely* defined in Conformance
section of it. Get a clue already.

--
This chickenus crossed the roadus while yodelingus.

[Andy Dingley]

Re: Is a Login Form &quot;Tabula r Data&quot;

On 29 Aug, 05:59, Sanders Kaufman <bu...@kaufman. netwrote:

Well, this is a stylesheet discussion group about CSS.

So how are you going to implement a grid-like layout in CSS, without
using <table? There's a way, but it doesn't work. It's not even
_supposed_ to work, as it's unnecessary. Use the <tableinstead .

And the specs
say to use css stylesheets, rather than tables, to layout such things.

You don't have enough experience to correctly interpret what the
recommendations say.

In particular, an advisory note pointing out a decade of bad practice
in using tables to set margins isn't the same as a blanket ban on
using tables for those things that require them.

[Sanders Kaufman]

Re: Is a Login Form &quot;Tabula r Data&quot;

Andy Dingley wrote:

On 29 Aug, 05:59, Sanders Kaufman <bu...@kaufman. netwrote:
>

>Well, this is a stylesheet discussion group about CSS.

>
So how are you going to implement a grid-like layout in CSS, without
using <table? There's a way, but it doesn't work. It's not even
_supposed_ to work, as it's unnecessary. Use the <tableinstead .

There's a way - but it doesn't work?
That's cute.

But to answer the question, I'm looking at divs with absolute
positioning. It seems to work GREAT so far - even with a few extra
capabilities that tables don't have.

> And the specs
>say to use css stylesheets, rather than tables, to layout such things.

>
You don't have enough experience to correctly interpret what the
recommendations say.

I've been programming computers since the 1970's; I'm an MCSD; I
developed the web's first fax-over-IP protocol; I wrote the book, "Teach
Yourself ActiveX Programming in 21 Days" for MacMillan; and I've written
DOZENS of programming articles for C|NET.

I may not have the knowledge, but I most *certainly* have the experience.

In particular, an advisory note pointing out a decade of bad practice
in using tables to set margins isn't the same as a blanket ban on
using tables for those things that require them.

Yeah - but the customer wants what the customer wants.

[Andy Dingley]

Re: Is a Login Form &quot;Tabula r Data&quot;

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:12:12 GMT, Sanders Kaufman <bucky@kaufman. net>
wrote:

>I'm looking at divs with absolute
>positioning. It seems to work GREAT so far - even with a few extra
>capabilities that tables don't have.

>You don't have enough experience to correctly interpret what the
>recommendation s say.

>I'm an MCSD;

OK, _now_ I'm convinced.

Strangely all three of these statements fit together strangely well.

[Sanders Kaufman]

Re: Is a Login Form &quot;Tabula r Data&quot;

Andy Dingley wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:12:12 GMT, Sanders Kaufman <bucky@kaufman. net>

>>You don't have enough experience to correctly interpret what the
>>recommendatio ns say.

>

>I'm an MCSD;

>
OK, _now_ I'm convinced.
Strangely all three of these statements fit together strangely well.

And then the green-eyed jealousy monster reared its ugly head.

[Andy Dingley]

Re: Is a Login Form &quot;Tabula r Data&quot;

On 30 Aug, 05:39, Sanders Kaufman <bu...@kaufman. netwrote:

I'm an MCSD;

And then the green-eyed jealousy monster reared its ugly head.

Jealous? No Sanders, I'm _laughing_ _at_ you. I'm just a bad person
that way, sorry.

You popped up and did a non-uncommon newbie thing:

Post #1 - "I'm just starting out, please help"

Post #2 - "You guys all suck"

Post #3 - "I know more than you guys anyway"

You didn't listen when you were told politely that your proposition
was wrong. Then you compounded the error by discovering that absolute
positioning is the solution to everything (It isn't. If we thought
you'd listen, we'd tell you this and explain why - read the "Achieving
same results in all browsers" thread).

Now you've told us you're an MCSD. This means three things: You _have_
an MCSD. Not a fatal error, but pretty glaring. You think that M$oft
have any connection to good practice in web design or that their lead
is worth following. Most of all though, it means thhat you think an
MCSD is in _any_ way impressive or an indication of competence. Show
us a portfolio, show us some chunk of sourceforge that you built, but
hiding behind an MCSD is minimum-wage teenager stuff.

[Sanders Kaufman]

Re: Is a Login Form &quot;Tabula r Data&quot;

Andy Dingley wrote:

On 30 Aug, 05:39, Sanders Kaufman <bu...@kaufman. netwrote:

>>>I'm an MCSD;

>

>And then the green-eyed jealousy monster reared its ugly head.

>
Jealous? No Sanders, I'm _laughing_ _at_ you. I'm just a bad person
that way, sorry.
>
You popped up and did a non-uncommon newbie thing:
>
Post #1 - "I'm just starting out, please help"
Post #2 - "You guys all suck"
Post #3 - "I know more than you guys anyway"

I never said that stuff, you little troll.

Now you've told us you're an MCSD. This means three things: You _have_
an MCSD. Not a fatal error, but pretty glaring. You think that M$oft
have any connection to good practice in web design or that their lead
is worth following.

I hear that a lot from uncertified, ineducable, internet trolls.
I don't know why.

[Ben C]

Re: Is a Login Form &quot;Tabula r Data&quot;

On 2007-08-30, Sanders Kaufman <bucky@kaufman. netwrote:

Andy Dingley wrote:

[...]

>Now you've told us you're an MCSD. This means three things: You _have_
>an MCSD. Not a fatal error, but pretty glaring. You think that M$oft
>have any connection to good practice in web design or that their lead
>is worth following.

>
I hear that a lot from uncertified, ineducable, internet trolls.
I don't know why.

What exactly did they teach you on the M$oft course? I am quite
interested to know, although not enough to actually go on one.

[Brendan Gillatt]

Re: Is a Login Form &quot;Tabula r Data&quot;

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Sanders Kaufman wrote:

Actually - the second one didn't either.
I'm still waaaaay too new to Thunderbird/Firefox and haven't gotten the
twit-filters figgered out yet.

Too new to those for kill filters? It takes 5 minutes to read the help
file for that; it takes weeks or months to find the rendering quirks in
a particular browser. I sure hope _none_ of your potential developer end
users have selected an alternative browser to IE ;)

- --
Brendan Gillatt
brendan {at} brendangillatt {dot} co {dot} uk

http://www.brendangillatt.co.uk

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