CSS software tools sought

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Re: CSS software tools sought

Albert Wiersch wrote:

If you know of a practical way to use a good-looking font like Verdana
(or other nice font that is modern, good-looking, common, and easy to
read) and that doesn't have a "size" problem when the user doesn't
have the font installed, then let me know. If there's a way to have
the best of both without any side-effects, I like to know what it is.

I (and others) already gave you the answer.

font-family: sans-serif;
font-size: 100%;

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Re: CSS software tools sought

Albert Wiersch wrote:

"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@ex ample.invalidwr ote:

>Albert Wiersch wrote:

>>I know what you are talking about and I'm going to leave it as is
>>because I am happy with the way it looks.

>>
>..thereby proving that you don't care about your visitors.

>
Actually, it's the opposite. I do what I think is best for them. It
should be obvious in my messages if you read them correctly and you
want to understand.

Oh, I understand exactly what you wrote. The fact remains you have no
idea what fonts are available on the computers of your visitors, nor
what their vision problems might be. Why is that so hard for you to
understand?

>"It looks alright to my eyes, and using my computer and browser."

>
That's quite a misinterpretati on.

Seems only you think that. <lol>

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck

[Chris F.A. Johnson]

Re: CSS software tools sought

On 2007-06-25, Albert Wiersch wrote:
....

If you know of a practical way to use a good-looking font like Verdana (or
other nice font that is modern, good-looking, common, and easy to read) and
that doesn't have a "size" problem when the user doesn't have the font
installed, then let me know. If there's a way to have the best of both
without any side-effects, I like to know what it is.

There's nothing wrong with Verdana; problems only occur when you
size it differently from any other font (mostly, that means
don't). If you want to use Verdana because you are using a small
font-size, then you are making a mistake, and the page will be
less than optimal to those without Verdana. Verdana is only
slight wider than Helvetica or Arial -- not enough to make it
less legible.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell. org>
========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ========
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

[Albert Wiersch]

Re: CSS software tools sought


"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@ex ample.invalidwr ote in message
news:_zVfi.1195 42$Sa4.14589@bg tnsc05-news.ops.worldn et.att.net...

>
Oh, I understand exactly what you wrote. The fact remains you have no
idea what fonts are available on the computers of your visitors, nor
what their vision problems might be. Why is that so hard for you to
understand?

It seems that it's hard for you to understand. I ACTUALLY do have an idea of
what is on my visitors' computers. Sure, not everyone has everything, but
the vast majority of them do have verdana. A little research onto what is
installed on most Windows computers would show that verdana is available.

Albert

[Jonathan N. Little]

Re: CSS software tools sought

Albert Wiersch wrote:

"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@ex ample.invalidwr ote in message
news:_zVfi.1195 42$Sa4.14589@bg tnsc05-news.ops.worldn et.att.net...

>Oh, I understand exactly what you wrote. The fact remains you have no
>idea what fonts are available on the computers of your visitors, nor
>what their vision problems might be. Why is that so hard for you to
>understand?

>
It seems that it's hard for you to understand. I ACTUALLY do have an idea of
what is on my visitors' computers. Sure, not everyone has everything, but
the vast majority of them do have verdana. A little research onto what is
installed on most Windows computers would show that verdana is available.

And what's on the computer one of our patrons is using to check out your
product at our public library where I have installed Kubuntu, Feisty Fawn?

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO

http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

[Albert Wiersch]

Re: CSS software tools sought


"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@ex ample.invalidwr ote in message
news:0wVfi.1195 33$Sa4.70222@bg tnsc05-news.ops.worldn et.att.net...

Albert Wiersch wrote:
>

>If you know of a practical way to use a good-looking font like Verdana
>(or other nice font that is modern, good-looking, common, and easy to
>read) and that doesn't have a "size" problem when the user doesn't
>have the font installed, then let me know. If there's a way to have
>the best of both without any side-effects, I like to know what it is.

>
I (and others) already gave you the answer.
>
font-family: sans-serif;
font-size: 100%;

Not exactly the answer I was looking for as that still shows up larger than
I'd like. If the size issue affected enough of my visitors to make it
practical to change, then I'd probably use that. However I am not yet
convinced that it is better to change than to leave it as it is.

I may do some more tests though and investigate it further.

Albert

[Albert Wiersch]

Re: CSS software tools sought


"Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@centra lva.netwrote in message
news:6aa2f$4680 373f$40cba7b3$5 111@NAXS.COM...

>
And what's on the computer one of our patrons is using to check out your
product at our public library where I have installed Kubuntu, Feisty Fawn?

That would be the exception rather than the rule, but I will do a little
further testing to see how much of a practical difference it makes in cases
like that vs. the typical visitor on a Windows box. Sounds like an excuse to
play around with Ubuntu a bit more.

Albert

[Chris F.A. Johnson]

Re: CSS software tools sought

On 2007-06-25, Albert Wiersch wrote:

>
"Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@centra lva.netwrote in message
news:6aa2f$4680 373f$40cba7b3$5 111@NAXS.COM...

>>
>And what's on the computer one of our patrons is using to check out your
>product at our public library where I have installed Kubuntu, Feisty Fawn?

>
That would be the exception rather than the rule,

The rule is that everyone is (or could be) an exception.

but I will do a little further testing to see how much of a
practical difference it makes in cases like that vs. the typical
visitor on a Windows box.

Why bother? Do it right and it will work for everyone.

Sounds like an excuse to play around with Ubuntu a bit more.

Why do you need an excuse? ;)

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell. org>
========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ========
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Re: CSS software tools sought

Albert Wiersch wrote:

"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@ex ample.invalidwr ote:

>Albert Wiersch wrote:
>>

>>If you know of a practical way to use a good-looking font like
>>Verdana (or other nice font that is modern, good-looking, common,
>>and easy to read) and that doesn't have a "size" problem when the
>>user doesn't have the font installed, then let me know. If there's
>>a way to have the best of both without any side-effects, I like to
>>know what it is.

>>
>I (and others) already gave you the answer.
>>
>font-family: sans-serif;
>font-size: 100%;

>
Not exactly the answer I was looking for as that still shows up larger than
I'd like.

It's not about *you* and what *you* like, Albert. It's about your
*visitors* and what is practical and accessible for *them*. [1]

If the size issue affected enough of my visitors to make it practical
to change, then I'd probably use that. However I am not yet convinced
that it is better to change than to leave it as it is.

Goodness gracious. It will take you about thirty seconds to change your
style sheet, and perhaps another thirty to FTP it to your web server.

Do that and I may even stop picking on you.

I may do some more tests though and investigate it further.

Enough of us have already done that...

[1. Pardon my excessive use of emphasis, but it seemed necessary.]
--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck

[Felix Miata]

Re: CSS software tools sought

On 2007/06/25 11:20 (GMT-0500) Albert Wiersch apparently typed:

Felix Miata wrote:

>On 2007/06/20 12:23 (GMT-0500) Albert Wiersch apparently typed:

>>http://www.htmlvalidator.com/

>Its text is too small. :-(

What browser are you using on what OS? My site targets Windows users who
should have the needed fonts installed.

That's not supposed to matter: http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/essence.html

So my website can look better for 99.9% of targeted visitors it looks worse
for perhaps .1% who don't have the font installed. That's a trade-off
decision that I've made because I think it is worth it.

I don't care how "good" it looks, only how well it works, how easy it is to read. Main content text smaller than 100% of my choice degrades how any site works. I'm the only person in the universe in a
position to determine what size works best right here where I'm sitting. Any author setting a size on main content text other than 100% of my choice is being arbitrary, capricious, tyrannical, and
rude. http://www.informationarchitects.jp/100e2r?v=4
--
"Respect everyone." I Peter 2:17 NIV

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/

[Felix Miata]

Re: CSS software tools sought

On 2007/06/25 14:52 (GMT-0500) Albert Wiersch apparently typed:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

>"It looks alright to my eyes, and using my computer and browser."

That's quite a misinterpretati on.

No, it's just a way of stating some facts. You have no basis to know it's alright anywhere that you're not situated.
--
"Respect everyone." I Peter 2:17 NIV

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/

[Albert Wiersch]

Re: CSS software tools sought


"Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohnson@gma il.comwrote in message
news:i9q5l4-esh.ln1@206-248-139-163.dsl.teksavv y.com...

>
The rule is that everyone is (or could be) an exception.

But it is often better to do according to the norm than the exception.

Why bother? Do it right and it will work for everyone.

There's more than one "right" way to do things, at least in most cases.

>Sounds like an excuse to play around with Ubuntu a bit more.

>
Why do you need an excuse? ;)

Because I am busy with so many other things right now!

Albert

[Albert Wiersch]

Re: CSS software tools sought


"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@ex ample.invalidwr ote in message
news:LOXfi.1198 49$Sa4.61509@bg tnsc05-news.ops.worldn et.att.net...

>
It's not about *you* and what *you* like, Albert. It's about your
*visitors* and what is practical and accessible for *them*. [1]

Yes, of course. Which is why I try to make my site look the best for my
vistors which are mostly using Windows since my software is only for Windows
right now. When I say it's what I like, it means it's what I like based on
what I think my visitors will like.

Goodness gracious. It will take you about thirty seconds to change your
style sheet, and perhaps another thirty to FTP it to your web server.

Of course it is easy to change, but I'm not doing it because of the possible
negative effects of the change, not because it would take me a minute.

Do that and I may even stop picking on you.

Well I suppose that would be nice.

>I may do some more tests though and investigate it further.

>
Enough of us have already done that...

And that was enough to make me more interested in the matter. When I get a
chance, I want to see for myself how "bad" it really looks like in Ubuntu...
just need to bring home my analog video cable so I can hook up an old
computer to a monitor and install Ubuntu. Better throw that cable in my box
now before I forget.

Albert

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Re: CSS software tools sought

Albert Wiersch wrote:

"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@ex ample.invalidwr ote:

>It's not about *you* and what *you* like, Albert. It's about your
>*visitors* and what is practical and accessible for *them*. [1]

>
Yes, of course. Which is why I try to make my site look the best for
my vistors which are mostly using Windows since my software is only
for Windows right now. When I say it's what I like, it means it's
what I like based on what I think my visitors will like.

Do you know that over 40% of your visitors have vision problems?

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck

[Chris F.A. Johnson]

Re: CSS software tools sought

On 2007-06-26, Albert Wiersch wrote:

>
"Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohnson@gma il.comwrote in message
news:i9q5l4-esh.ln1@206-248-139-163.dsl.teksavv y.com...

>>
> The rule is that everyone is (or could be) an exception.

>
But it is often better to do according to the norm than the exception.
>

> Why bother? Do it right and it will work for everyone.

>
There's more than one "right" way to do things, at least in most cases.

Then use one of them instead of the wrong way.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell. org>
========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ========
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)