wysiwyg-editor

[Michael Peters]

für einen Enduser, der kein HTML kann und nur die Contents auf statischen
Seiten ändern will, brauche ich einen einfach zu bedienenden WYSIWYG-Editor.
Wäre dankbar für Empfehlungen!

-m

[Els]

Re: wysiwyg-editor

Michael Peters wrote:
[color=blue]
> für einen Enduser, der kein HTML kann und nur die Contents auf statischen
> Seiten ändern will, brauche ich einen einfach zu bedienenden WYSIWYG-Editor.
> Wäre dankbar für Empfehlungen![/color]

If all you want to do is change text on an existing site, you don't
need to know HTML, and you can just use a regular text editor. If you
want to change content with HTML, best learn HTML (it's not more
difficult than learning to use a WYSIWYG program), because WYSIWYG
doesn't really exist.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: 2 Unlimited - Hypnotised

[Barbara de Zoete]

Re: wysiwyg-editor

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 09:44:04 +0100, Michael Peters <mp@michaelpete rs.de>
wrote:
[color=blue]
> für einen Enduser, der kein HTML kann und nur die Contents auf statischen
> Seiten ändern will, brauche ich einen einfach zu bedienenden
> WYSIWYG-Editor.
> Wäre dankbar für Empfehlungen![/color]

You don't speak/write English? Did you check this groop? Than you would
have noticed that this is an international group that uses English to
communicate (mainly). Using English gives you a better chance to get a
response.

Also, had you checked this group you would have seen it is all about
_html_. So asking about altering content without knowledge of markup is a
bit tricky. But hey, you're not the first to ask.
So, had you browsed through this group or searched it with Google, you
would probably have found several threads about WYSI(n)WYG editors, the
pro's and con's, and which is 'good' (very relative).

My bet is, you are better of with a properly set up CMS that with a
WYSI(n)WYG editor. If you really need an editor, I've heard good things
about NVU, <URL:http://www.nvu.com/>. I've never used it, but it seems to
do a relatively proper job, not messing up the markup too much.


--
,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
| weblog | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html |
| webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
|zweefvliegen | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html |
`-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'

[Lachlan Hunt]

Re: wysiwyg-editor

Barbara de Zoete wrote:[color=blue]
> My bet is, you are better of with a properly set up CMS that with a
> WYSI(n)WYG editor. If you really need an editor, I've heard good things
> about NVU, <URL:http://www.nvu.com/>. I've never used it, but it seems
> to do a relatively proper job, not messing up the markup too much.[/color]

I used it briefly to test it out, and found that while it will produce
valid/well-formed markup, it likes to throw a lot of unnecessary and
unwanted style attributes throughout the document, particularly with
copy & paste operations.

--
Lachlan Hunt

http://lachy.id.au/

http://GetFirefox.com/ Rediscover the Web
http://GetThunderbird.com/ Reclaim your Inbox

[Eric B. Bednarz]

Re: wysiwyg-editor

"Michael Peters" <mp@michaelpete rs.de> writes:

Moin,
[color=blue]
> für einen Enduser,[/color]

dciwam exisitiert.
[color=blue]
> der kein HTML kann und nur die Contents auf statischen
> Seiten ändern will, brauche ich einen einfach zu bedienenden WYSIWYG-Editor.[/color]

Client-side or server-side?
The former is unlikely to work, since *everything* can be messed up with
user input then. Server-side you would at least need a simple CMS of
sorts and an integrated 'rich text editing' script (google: designmode,
htmlarea). (E.g. with the basic PHP XML/expat functions you could
fairly trivially ensure well-formed input, content model restrictions
etc, and output an xml backend and an html frontend then. That's fairly
bullet-proof. Other languages have similar or better options.)

If it has to be client side, and if the user is unexperienced with HTML
but fairly tech-savvy, the by far best editor I know is not any WYSIWYG
but Emacs with nxml mode, which provides real time schema validation
(that would obviously require xhtml syntax) as you (stop to) type and
marks input errors on spot. Should be sufficient for editing textual
content.

There's a bundled win32 package at TEI:

<http://www.tei-c.org/Software/tei-emacs/>


--
||| hexadecimal EBB
o-o decimal 3771
--oOo--( )--oOo-- octal 7273
205 goodbye binary 111010111011

[Roy Schestowitz]

Re: wysiwyg-editor

__/ [Els] on Thursday 24 November 2005 08:55 \__
[color=blue]
> Michael Peters wrote:
>[color=green]
>> für einen Enduser, der kein HTML kann und nur die Contents auf statischen
>> Seiten ändern will, brauche ich einen einfach zu bedienenden
>> WYSIWYG-Editor. Wäre dankbar für Empfehlungen![/color]
>
> If all you want to do is change text on an existing site, you don't
> need to know HTML, and you can just use a regular text editor. If you
> want to change content with HTML, best learn HTML (it's not more
> difficult than learning to use a WYSIWYG program), because WYSIWYG
> doesn't really exist.[/color]

There are CMS packages (e.g. the upcoming WordPress 2.0, for example) that
also embed a high-quality WYSIWYG editors. These editors /sometimes/ pro-
duced fairly clean HTML code. I heard good things about NVU (as suggested
elsewhere), but I think it's 'healthier' never to depend on desktop-side
software and have no hands-on experience with raw HTML.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz | "World ends in five minutes - please log out"
http://Schestowitz.com | SuSE Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
12:00pm up 22 days 7:54, 4 users, load average: 0.24, 0.43, 0.72
http://iuron.com - next generation of search paradigms

[Stewart Gordon]

Re: wysiwyg-editor

Barbara de Zoete wrote:[color=blue]
> On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 09:44:04 +0100, Michael Peters <mp@michaelpete rs.de>
> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> für einen Enduser, der kein HTML kann und nur die Contents auf statischen
>> Seiten ändern will, brauche ich einen einfach zu bedienenden
>> WYSIWYG-Editor.
>> Wäre dankbar für Empfehlungen![/color]
>
> You don't speak/write English? Did you check this groop? Than you would
> have noticed that this is an international group that uses English to
> communicate (mainly). Using English gives you a better chance to get a
> response.[/color]
<snip>

The real problem is when it has a subject line that appears to be in
English.

But "WYSIWYG-Editor" also appears in the body. Google doesn't seem to
get anywhere with translating this from German. And according to it,
the German for "WYSIWYG-Editor" is "WSSIWSE-Herausgeber".

Stewart.

--
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS/M d- s:- C++@ a->--- UB@ P+ L E@ W++@ N+++ o K-@ w++@ O? M V? PS-
PE- Y? PGP- t- 5? X? R b DI? D G e++>++++ h-- r-- !y
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox. Please keep replies on
the 'group where everyone may benefit.

[Barbara de Zoete]

Re: wysiwyg-editor

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 19:20:12 +0100, Stewart Gordon <smjg_1998@yaho o.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
> the German for "WYSIWYG-Editor" is "WSSIWSE-Herausgeber".[/color]

rofl I wouldn't want to work with that, even if it killed me not doing so
:-)

--
,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
| weblog | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html |
| webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
|zweefvliegen | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html |
`-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'

[Michael Peters]

Re: wysiwyg-editor

oops, that was by mistake. Sorry, I didn't really want to post German in an
international newsgroup.


But I'm still looking for more recommendations for a simple wysiwyg editor.

To those who tell me that I should learn HTML, or that I should set up a
CMS - please reread my question. I'm a web professional, and this is simply
not what I need here. I need a good and simple wysiwyg editor for a
non-HTML-speaker who is only supposed to edit content parts of static pages.


-Michael

[Michael Peters]

Re: wysiwyg-editor

> But I'm still looking for more recommendations for a simple wysiwyg[color=blue]
> editor.[/color]


NVU looks pretty good at first glance though, thanks for the recommendation!
if anyone know another one, I'd be grateful.


-Michael

[Els]

Re: wysiwyg-editor

Michael Peters wrote:
[color=blue]
> oops, that was by mistake. Sorry, I didn't really want to post German in an
> international newsgroup.
>
> But I'm still looking for more recommendations for a simple wysiwyg editor.
>
> To those who tell me that I should learn HTML, or that I should set up a
> CMS - please reread my question. I'm a web professional, and this is simply
> not what I need here. I need a good and simple wysiwyg editor for a
> non-HTML-speaker who is only supposed to edit content parts of static pages.[/color]

How is a CMS not the solution?
Client (I'm assuming your non-HTML-speaker is a client) logs in to the
CMS, navigates to the page he wants to change, clicks 'edit', and gets
the current content in a nice and tidy text box (or several), edits
it, presses "save changes", and the job is done.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: The Beatles - I'm So Tired

[Michael Peters]

Re: wysiwyg-editor

> How is a CMS not the solution?[color=blue]
> Client (I'm assuming your non-HTML-speaker is a client) logs in to the
> CMS, navigates to the page he wants to change, clicks 'edit', and gets
> the current content in a nice and tidy text box (or several), edits
> it, presses "save changes", and the job is done.[/color]

:-)

and what does the client use to edit the page?

right, a wysiwyg editor. There's a wysiwyg editor at the heart of every CMS.

I only need the wysiwyg editor, not the other 95% of the CMS.


-Michael

[Alan J. Flavell]

Re: wysiwyg-editor

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005, Michael Peters wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
> > How is a CMS not the solution?
> > Client (I'm assuming your non-HTML-speaker is a client) logs in to the
> > CMS, navigates to the page he wants to change, clicks 'edit', and gets
> > the current content in a nice and tidy text box (or several), edits
> > it, presses "save changes", and the job is done.[/color]
>
> :-)
>
> and what does the client use to edit the page?
>
> right, a wysiwyg editor.[/color]

Impossible answer.

With HTML, "what you get" is structured markup. If what you are
seeing is some kind of visual preview ("what you see is a bit like
what they might get"), then what you are seeing is most certainly NOT
what you got. Just one possible rendering.

If, on the other hand, "what you see" is the structured markup that
*is* "what you get", then you're not talking about the same thing that
others mean when they say "wysiwg". Paradox.
[color=blue]
> There's a wysiwyg editor at the heart of every CMS.[/color]

You might have seen some which pretend to have such a thing, but with
HTML it's by definition impossible.

The term "wysiwyg" is so often misused in this context, to mean "a
visual previewer", and I deduce that's what you're trying to do here.
But it's a highly confusing usage, and accounts for a lot of
badly-made web pages. You can't create real logical structure just by
visually manipulating lumps of content. MS Word (to take an example)
has recognised that for years already, thanks to its style templates:
a pity that it's rarely taught that way.