Avoiding Text Anti-Aliasing

[Martin Eyles]

Hi,
I have some text on a page in a small font. The font size has been OK in
other applications, but in a web browser, the legebility suffers due to the
anti-aliasing. Is there a way to turn off anti-aliasing for small text from
the css, or is there something else I can do to make small text more
legible?

(Note, the text really does have to be small, as that is what is required
for the web-application. It is a system for use on screens of a fixed size,
in a specific place, not for general consumption)

Thanks,
Martin

--
Martin Eyles
martin.eyles@NO SPAM.bytronic.c om

[Spartanicus]

Re: Avoiding Text Anti-Aliasing

"Martin Eyles" <martin.eyles@N OSPAM.bytronic. com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> I have some text on a page in a small font.[/color]

How small?
[color=blue]
>The font size has been OK in
>other applications, but in a web browser, the legebility suffers due to the
>anti-aliasing. Is there a way to turn off anti-aliasing for small text from
>the css,[/color]

Font anti-aliasing is typically an OS feature, a user may have (some)
control over it, you as an author do not (and that's a good thing).
[color=blue]
>or is there something else I can do to make small text more
>legible?[/color]

If your text is illegible then it's to small. First make sure that you
use the user's default size for normal body text, only for non essential
content is it acceptable to de-emphasize text by reducing it's size.
This should be done in moderation, I'd consider anything below 80% of
the user's default unacceptably small.
[color=blue]
>(Note, the text really does have to be small, as that is what is required
>for the web-application.[/color]

Irrelevant.
[color=blue]
>It is a system for use on screens of a fixed size,[/color]

It's unlikely to be a web-application (in which case you have no idea on
what hardware it is going to run), *and* something like a dedicated
kiosk system.

--
Spartanicus

[C A Upsdell]

Re: Avoiding Text Anti-Aliasing

Martin Eyles wrote:[color=blue]
> Hi,
> I have some text on a page in a small font. The font size has been OK in
> other applications, but in a web browser, the legebility suffers due to the
> anti-aliasing. Is there a way to turn off anti-aliasing for small text from
> the css, or is there something else I can do to make small text more
> legible?[/color]

GIF or PNG

[Martin Eyles]

Re: Avoiding Text Anti-Aliasing

"Spartanicu s" <invalid@invali d.invalid> wrote in message
news:85t3n1h06e 6t6d9v3p1mbbtnh gvk9eu2kh@news. spartanicus.utv internet.ie...[color=blue]
> "Martin Eyles" <martin.eyles@N OSPAM.bytronic. com> wrote:
>[color=green]
> > I have some text on a page in a small font.[/color]
>
> How small?[/color]

ok, I put a sample at

http://www.bytronic.com/tests/test5.png

This is the font size I am intending to use.
[color=blue][color=green]
> >The font size has been OK in
> >other applications, but in a web browser, the legebility suffers due to[/color][/color]
the[color=blue][color=green]
> >anti-aliasing.[/color][/color]

When I use this font in some other development systems, it isn't
anti-aliased, and the stroke of the text is then a pixel wide in solid
black, rather than what you see here
[color=blue][color=green]
> >Is there a way to turn off anti-aliasing for small text from
> >the css,[/color]
>
> Font anti-aliasing is typically an OS feature, a user may have (some)
> control over it, you as an author do not (and that's a good thing).[/color]

This may be possible, is there an option in MSIE (the browser all the
customers will be using).
[color=blue][color=green]
> >or is there something else I can do to make small text more
> >legible?[/color]
>
> If your text is illegible then it's to small. First make sure that you
> use the user's default size for normal body text, only for non essential
> content is it acceptable to de-emphasize text by reducing it's size.
> This should be done in moderation, I'd consider anything below 80% of
> the user's default unacceptably small.[/color]

All the text sizes for the entire system is being specified in pixels. This
is for a fixed layout on 1024*768, and is essentially replacing some other
software, and looking as close as possible to it.
[color=blue][color=green]
> >(Note, the text really does have to be small, as that is what is required
> >for the web-application.[/color]
>
> Irrelevant.[/color]

Entirely relevant, it is a requirement of the system
[color=blue][color=green]
> >It is a system for use on screens of a fixed size,[/color]
>
> It's unlikely to be a web-application (in which case you have no idea on
> what hardware it is going to run), *and* something like a dedicated
> kiosk system.[/color]

Unlikely it may sound, but true. It will run on closed systems, like a
kiosk, but some of these may be off site, accesing pages via the internet.

Thanks for your help,
Martin

--
Martin Eyles
martin.eyles@by trNOSPAMonic.co m

[Martin Eyles]

Re: Avoiding Text Anti-Aliasing

"C A Upsdell" <""cupsdellXXX\ "@-@-@XXXupsdell.com "> wrote in message
news:6aKdnS49cu cJmu_enZ2dnUVZ_ tCdnZ2d@rogers. com...[color=blue]
> Martin Eyles wrote:[color=green]
> > Hi,
> > I have some text on a page in a small font. The font size has been[/color][/color]
OK in[color=blue][color=green]
> > other applications, but in a web browser, the legebility suffers due to[/color][/color]
the[color=blue][color=green]
> > anti-aliasing. Is there a way to turn off anti-aliasing for small text[/color][/color]
from[color=blue][color=green]
> > the css, or is there something else I can do to make small text more
> > legible?[/color]
>
> GIF or PNG[/color]

The text is comming from a database, so could say anything. Is the a way of
turning any text into GIF or PNG on the server side (The back end is written
in VB.NET)? What kind of badwidth penalty would I suffer (there are quite a
few labels per page, which could all require a unique image, although they
would be 4 colour at most (text, background and border colours))

--
Martin Eyles
martin.eyles@NO SPAM.bytronic.c om

[Martin Eyles]

Re: Avoiding Text Anti-Aliasing

"Martin Eyles" <martin.eyles@N OSPAM.bytronic. com> wrote...[color=blue]
> "Spartanicu s" <invalid@invali d.invalid> wrote...[color=green]
> > "Martin Eyles" <martin.eyles@N OSPAM.bytronic. com> wrote:
> >[color=darkred]
> > > I have some text on a page in a small font.[/color]
> >
> > How small?[/color]
>
> ok, I put a sample at
> http://www.bytronic.com/tests/test5.png
>
> This is the font size I am intending to use.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> > >The font size has been OK in
> > >other applications, but in a web browser, the legebility suffers due to[/color][/color]
> the[color=green][color=darkred]
> > >anti-aliasing.[/color][/color]
>
> When I use this font in some other development systems, it isn't
> anti-aliased, and the stroke of the text is then a pixel wide in solid
> black, rather than what you see here[/color]

Added an example of how I want it to look at

http://www.bytronic.com/tests/test6.png

--
Martin Eyles
martin.eyles@NO SPAM.bytronic.c om

[Spartanicus]

Re: Avoiding Text Anti-Aliasing

"Martin Eyles" <martin.eyles@N OSPAM.bytronic. com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>ok, I put a sample at
>http://www.bytronic.com/tests/test5.png
>
>This is the font size I am intending to use.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> >Is there a way to turn off anti-aliasing for small text from
>> >the css,[/color]
>>
>> Font anti-aliasing is typically an OS feature, a user may have (some)
>> control over it, you as an author do not (and that's a good thing).[/color]
>
>This may be possible, is there an option in MSIE (the browser all the
>customers will be using).[/color]

A screenshot doesn't help. You'd have to put up a sample of the actual
code, list what version of IE is going to be used, what settings it
uses, what OS it runs on, and what the font settings of the OS are.

On the MS OS's that I'm familiar with (W98 & Windows 2000), font
anti-aliasing needs to be explicitly enabled by the user (Control Panel[color=blue]
> Display > effect tab > "Smooth edges of screen fonts") and it only[/color]
works on larger font sizes, smaller fonts are not affected.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> It's unlikely to be a web-application (in which case you have no idea on
>> what hardware it is going to run), *and* something like a dedicated
>> kiosk system.[/color]
>
>Unlikely it may sound, but true. It will run on closed systems, like a
>kiosk, but some of these may be off site, accesing pages via the internet.[/color]

In that case it isn't a "web-application", your application simply uses
the internet. Note the "www" in this group's name, strictly speaking
questions on private systems are off-topic in this group.

--
Spartanicus

[Jim Moe]

Re: Avoiding Text Anti-Aliasing

Martin Eyles wrote:[color=blue]
>
> [...] Is there a way to turn off anti-aliasing for small text from
> the css, [...]
>[/color]
No.
Use Verdana or Vera Sans? They have a large x-height that makes them
look bigger. And Verdana was designed for tiny size on a monitor. Of
course, not everyone has those fonts loaded.
Font-blurring, er, anti-aliasing, is an option of the OS' graphics
system. Not something that can be controlled from a browser.

--
jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

[Jim Moe]

Re: Avoiding Text Anti-Aliasing

Martin Eyles wrote:[color=blue]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>the css, or is there something else I can do to make small text more
>>>legible?[/color]
>>
>>GIF or PNG[/color]
>
> The text is comming from a database, so could say anything. Is the a way of
> turning any text into GIF or PNG on the server side (The back end is written
> in VB.NET)? What kind of badwidth penalty would I suffer (there are quite a
> few labels per page, which could all require a unique image, although they
> would be 4 colour at most (text, background and border colours))
>[/color]
There is the gd library <http://www.boutell.com/gd/>. It exists as a
loadable library or a standalone app. It has been a part of PHP for a
while, and can be used through CGI calls. I do not know if there is a VB
counterpart.
Such a method has its drawbacks, of course.
- the increased server processing
- the text cannot wrap since it is not text anymore
- the user cannot resize the text to read it

--
jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

[Eric Lindsay]

Re: Avoiding Text Anti-Aliasing

In article <11n435mcn0fvt5 9@corp.supernew s.com>,
"Martin Eyles" <martin.eyles@N OSPAM.bytronic. com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> ok, I put a sample at
> http://www.bytronic.com/tests/test5.png
>
> This is the font size I am intending to use.[/color]

Ouch! Unreadable. First thing I did after trying to read it in the top
left corner of Safari was to bring it up in Opera and magnify 200%
[color=blue]
> Unlikely it may sound, but true. It will run on closed systems, like a
> kiosk, but some of these may be off site, accesing pages via the internet.[/color]

Put Opera (it is free) on the systems, running in full Kiosk mode.
Pages still show in the size you have selected, however any customer
with problems viewing it (and who knows the Opera zoom code) can zoom
enough to be able to read it?

On your existing text size, were I one of your customers, I'd now be a
customer someplace else.

--

http://www.ericlindsay.com

[Eric Lindsay]

Re: Avoiding Text Anti-Aliasing

In article <11n44qidsafvnd 9@corp.supernew s.com>,
"Martin Eyles" <martin.eyles@N OSPAM.bytronic. com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Added an example of how I want it to look at
> http://www.bytronic.com/tests/test6.png[/color]

That is considerably more readable, but personally I would still zoom
it. Well, actually, since I set my browser to expand every font to a
minimum of 14 point, your layout would have broken anyhow.

Not letting your reader see things at a size they they like to read it
at seems so anti-audience that I don't know what to say. It is the sort
of thing I associate with ancient books in 6 point type, not with modern
computer displays. You have to be setting yourself up for someone to
claim discrimination against people with any visual impairment.

I suppose you could supply each computer with a large magnifying glass.

--

http://www.ericlindsay.com

[Guillaume]

Re: Avoiding Text Anti-Aliasing

> The text is comming from a database, so could say anything. Is the a way of[color=blue]
> turning any text into GIF or PNG on the server side (The back end is written
> in VB.NET)?[/color]

I don't know in VB but in PHP or Java, this is quite easy.
[color=blue]
> What kind of badwidth penalty would I suffer (there are quite a
> few labels per page, which could all require a unique image, although they
> would be 4 colour at most (text, background and border colours))[/color]

Images will be much bigger than the corresponding text. But if the gauge
is already an image, you could join the both. This is a solution to
investigate.

--
My desktop is worth a million of dollars. Put an icon on it.

http://www.milliondollarscreenshot.com/

[Martin Eyles]

Re: Avoiding Text Anti-Aliasing

used font-size: 9px; font-family: sans-serif, and that has fixed the
problem. No longer anti-aliased, and much more readable. I have no idea what
font it was using - I think it must be a default that ASP.NET adds
automatically, because I had left it blank (and this normally defaults to
serif or sans-serif in IE/FF). Interestingly, I tried verdana, and the
problem remained.

Thanks for your help, it got me thinking along the right lines!

Martin

--
Martin Eyles
martin.eyles@NO SPAM.bytronic.c om

"Jim Moe" <jmm-list.AXSPAMGN@s ohnen-moe.com> wrote in message
news:ZsOdne9KWr Grru_enZ2dnUVZ_ sWdnZ2d@giganew s.com...[color=blue]
> Martin Eyles wrote:[color=green]
> >
> > [...] Is there a way to turn off anti-aliasing for small text from
> > the css, [...]
> >[/color]
> No.
> Use Verdana or Vera Sans? They have a large x-height that makes them
> look bigger. And Verdana was designed for tiny size on a monitor. Of
> course, not everyone has those fonts loaded.
> Font-blurring, er, anti-aliasing, is an option of the OS' graphics
> system. Not something that can be controlled from a browser.
>
> --
> jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
> (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)[/color]

[Martin Eyles]

Re: Avoiding Text Anti-Aliasing

"Eric Lindsay" <NOSPAmar2005@e riclindsay.com> wrote in message
news:NOSPAmar20 05-7D976C.09201210 112005@freenews .iinet.net.au.. .
[color=blue]
> Put Opera (it is free) on the systems, running in full Kiosk mode.
> Pages still show in the size you have selected, however any customer
> with problems viewing it (and who knows the Opera zoom code) can zoom
> enough to be able to read it?[/color]

Firstly, I don't want adverts from opera.

Secondly, I need activex.

Thirdly, windows has a magnifying glass, which we can use.

Thanks anyway though. :-)

--
Martin Eyles
martin.eyles@NO SPAM.bytronic.c om

[Martin Eyles]

Re: Avoiding Text Anti-Aliasing

"Eric Lindsay" <NOSPAmar2005@e riclindsay.com> wrote in message
news:NOSPAmar20 05-E1B235.09305610 112005@freenews .iinet.net.au.. .[color=blue]
> In article <11n44qidsafvnd 9@corp.supernew s.com>,
> "Martin Eyles" <martin.eyles@N OSPAM.bytronic. com> wrote:
>[color=green]
> > Added an example of how I want it to look at
> > http://www.bytronic.com/tests/test6.png[/color]
>
> That is considerably more readable, but personally I would still zoom
> it. Well, actually, since I set my browser to expand every font to a
> minimum of 14 point, your layout would have broken anyhow.[/color]

There is a lot of data on the screen, and this is the only way to fit it all
on without scroll bars. For most users of the system, this is the best way
to look at the screen, and it matches the software they are already using.
It also gives the best overview of the system. The Screen is essentially
three sets of bar graphs, so an accesible version would probably involve
splitting the screen into three. The added space would then allow bigger
bars, and larger fonts. However, this makes it harder for most users of the
system, so isn't on the main versions of the screens.

--
Martin Eyles
martin.eyles@NO SPAM.bytronic.c om