Photo Gallery with CSS?

[Nik Thomas]

Re: Photo Gallery with CSS?

Matt Silberstein wrote:
[color=blue]
> A nice argument by definition. So what if you don't want "systemic"?
> What I want is a bunch of thumbnails on a page that is not dependent
> on any particular page size. I want the layout to re-shape itself when
> the window changes size. Tables don't do this, CSS does. That said, I
> am just going to write a Perl script to do what I want. I will publish
> it when I am done.
>[/color]
Matt,

You could do worse than look at http://locusmeus.com/dimage-gallery01.html.

I'd always assumed this belonged to Barabara De Zoete, who is/was a
c.i.w.a.s regular, but reading some of the text it would seem not.
Anyway, I think the author has done what you're describing.

HTH

Nik

[Matt Probert]

Re: Photo Gallery with CSS?

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 13:12:47 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPref ixmatts2nospam@ ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> A nice argument by definition. So what if you don't want "systemic"?
> What I want is a bunch of thumbnails on a page that is not dependent
> on any particular page size. I want the layout to re-shape itself when
> the window changes size. Tables don't do this, CSS does. That said, I
> am just going to write a Perl script to do what I want. I will publish
> it when I am done.[/color]

The definition included the word "systematic ", not "systemic" (I
suspect that was a typing error on your part). Systematic simply
implies a tidy arrangement, but you'll also see that it is not
essential to the definition.

A systematic arrangement of images in rows and columns is perhaps a
tidy arrangement where the cells are of regular size, or the whole is
regular.

Matt

[Matt Probert]

Re: Photo Gallery with CSS?

On 8 Nov 2005 05:14:26 -0800, "Adam Risser" <arisser@gmail. com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hi Matt,
>
> I don't know of a gallery that produces the layout in tableless code,
> but I do know that it is easy to take coppermine's templates and edit
> them to be that way.
>
> I'd stick with coppermine and just spend a few minutes editing the
> templates.
>
> Adam[/color]

By all means arrange the layout how so ever you desire.

The argument over here at AWW is really one of prejudice and bigotry
rather than one built upon sensibility.

That a grid of pictures is a table, and therefore the use of HTML
<table> markup is valid for it is the argument here. Whether or not it
is the cleanest or fastest rendering method of presenting the grid of
images is another matter!

Matt

[Dylan Parry]

Re: Photo Gallery with CSS?

Trapped in the departure lounge at
alt.https://www.webmaster,comp.infosyste...ng.stylesheets, Matt
Probert got bored and wrote:
[color=blue]
> Except that you are still mistaken about the definition of a table:
>
> "A display of information in columns and lines occupying a single
> defined area."
>
> Which a grid of images most certainly is.[/color]

You seem to have missed:

"so as clearly to exhibit some set of facts or relations"

Which a grid of images most certainly does not.

--
Dylan Parry
http://electricfreedom.org -- Where the Music Progressively Rocks!

Usenet: The first post is free, but the next will cost you your soul.

[Els]

Re: Photo Gallery with CSS?

Nik Thomas wrote:[color=blue]
> Matt Silberstein wrote:
>[color=green]
>> A nice argument by definition. So what if you don't want "systemic"?
>> What I want is a bunch of thumbnails on a page that is not dependent
>> on any particular page size. I want the layout to re-shape itself when
>> the window changes size. Tables don't do this, CSS does. That said, I
>> am just going to write a Perl script to do what I want. I will publish
>> it when I am done.[/color]
>
> You could do worse than look at http://locusmeus.com/dimage-gallery01.html.
>
> I'd always assumed this belonged to Barabara De Zoete, who is/was a
> c.i.w.a.s regular, but reading some of the text it would seem not.[/color]

You were thinking in the right direction though, considering you are
(I think) in the UK, and both Barbara and I are in the Netherlands :-)
[color=blue]
> Anyway, I think the author has done what you're describing.[/color]

I think I did ;-)

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -

[Alan J. Flavell]

Re: Photo Gallery with CSS?

On Tue, 8 Nov 2005, Matt Probert wrote, in addition to several
contemporary postings repeating the same message:
[color=blue]
> The argument over here at AWW is really one of prejudice and bigotry
> rather than one built upon sensibility.[/color]

Give it a rest, will you?
[color=blue]
> That a grid of pictures is a table,[/color]

In a web context, the term "table" is a technical term, associated
with usage and good practice.

If you can't do any better than repeat a selectively-chosen dictionary
definition in order to damage the more-precise meaning which this term
has in the web context, then you aren't likely to throw any more light
on the topic by merely repeating it again.
[color=blue]
> and therefore the use of HTML
> <table> markup is valid for it is the argument here.[/color]

The term "valid" is *also* a technical term, in relation to HTML or to
XML-based markups. It has not the slightest value in deciding whether
"table" is an appropriate markup, since it relates entirely to syntax,
and not at all to semantics.

Good web practice is clear - and wouldn't change, no matter what I
happened to say about it (nor you, for that matter). Even the HTML
spec, which is generally as vague as one could be about good-practice,
says:

"Tables should not be used purely as a means to layout document
content [...]"

and you'll find it stated more strongly in WAI contexts.

[Matt Probert]

Re: Photo Gallery with CSS?

On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 14:40:07 +0000, "Alan J. Flavell"
<flavell@ph.gla .ac.uk> wrote:
[color=blue]
> In a web context, the term "table" is a technical term, associated
> with usage and good practice.[/color]

Nonsense.
[color=blue]
>
> If you can't do any better than repeat a selectively-chosen dictionary
> definition in order to damage the more-precise meaning which this term
> has in the web context, then you aren't likely to throw any more light
> on the topic by merely repeating it again.[/color]

A selectively chosen dictionary definition? As you're obviously not a
native English speaker, I'll point out that the definition I repeated
is *the* English definition of the word table in the context for which
it is appropriate here. That is, not refering to an item one eats
one's dinner off.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > and therefore the use of HTML
> > <table> markup is valid for it is the argument here.[/color]
>
> The term "valid" is *also* a technical term, in relation to HTML or to
> XML-based markups. It has not the slightest value in deciding whether
> "table" is an appropriate markup, since it relates entirely to syntax,
> and not at all to semantics.
>
> Good web practice is clear - and wouldn't change, no matter what I
> happened to say about it (nor you, for that matter). Even the HTML
> spec, which is generally as vague as one could be about good-practice,
> says:
>
> "Tables should not be used purely as a means to layout document
> content [...]"
>
> and you'll find it stated more strongly in WAI contexts.[/color]

Exactly. But your bigotry fails to see the difference between laying
out a regular grid of data and laying out an irregular web page.

We were not talking about page layout, but rather presenting a table
of images within a page, for which <table> and its associated elements
are wholly appropriate.

Matt

[Matt Silberstein]

Re: Photo Gallery with CSS?

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 11:22:05 GMT, in
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.stylesheets ,
comments@prober tencyclopaedia. com (Matt Probert) in
<43708a0b.10097 8875@news.ntlwo rld.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On 8 Nov 2005 02:58:13 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
><nothespacegir lspam@subhuman. net> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>> Matt Silberstein wrote:[color=darkred]
>> > Is there a Coppermine like package that produces CSS rather than
>> > tables?
>> >
>> > --
>> > Matt Silberstein
>> >
>> > Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
>> >
>> > http://www.beawitness.org
>> > http://www.darfurgenocide.org
>> > http://www.savedarfur.org
>> >
>> > "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"[/color]
>>
>> Aren't galleries tabulated data, therefor exactly what tables are
>> designed for...? :)
>>[/color]
>
>Yes, but they are evil and shouldn't be used. EVER! Just like round
>wheels, which roll backwards when attempting to ascend a slope, and as
>such should be replaced with square ones, which don't suffer from this
>handicap.
>
><g>[/color]

I don't want a table because it is not dynamically sizable. This is
really not tabular data, it is a stream I want to fit into the window.
Let me take off the "coppermine " like, that has way more bells and
whistles than I want. I just want some automated gallery. So I will
make the Perl script and let people know.


--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org

http://www.darfurgenocide.org

http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"

[Matt Silberstein]

Re: Photo Gallery with CSS?

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 14:01:29 GMT, in
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.stylesheets ,
comments@prober tencyclopaedia. com (Matt Probert) in
<4370aec4.81396 8@news.ntlworld .com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 12:48:19 +0000, Dylan Parry <usenet@dylanpa rry.com>
>wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Trapped in the departure lounge at
>> alt.https://www.webmaster,comp.infosyste...ng.stylesheets, mbstevens
>> got bored and wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>> > http://www.rstoutart.com/j2905/sculp.html[/color]
>>
>> In that example a table *is* appropriate as there are definite, albeit
>> implied, column headings: description; and thumbnail.
>>[/color]
>
>Except that you are still mistaken about the definition of a table:
>
>"A display of information in columns and lines occupying a single
>defined area."
>
>Which a grid of images most certainly is. That they may (but don't
>have to) be systematic, is just to imply regular cell sizes (in other
>words a tidy arrangement or presentation)[/color]

A grid of images *can be* that. Since, however, I want the area to
change with the window, it is not a defined area, is it?

--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org

http://www.darfurgenocide.org

http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"

[Matt Silberstein]

Re: Photo Gallery with CSS?

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 14:02:55 +0000, in
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.stylesheets , Nik Thomas
<nt10001@eng.ca m.ac.uk> in <dkqb5k$2me$1@g emini.csx.cam.a c.uk> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Matt Silberstein wrote:
>[color=green]
>> A nice argument by definition. So what if you don't want "systemic"?
>> What I want is a bunch of thumbnails on a page that is not dependent
>> on any particular page size. I want the layout to re-shape itself when
>> the window changes size. Tables don't do this, CSS does. That said, I
>> am just going to write a Perl script to do what I want. I will publish
>> it when I am done.
>>[/color]
>Matt,
>
>You could do worse than look at http://locusmeus.com/dimage-gallery01.html.
>
>I'd always assumed this belonged to Barabara De Zoete, who is/was a
>c.i.w.a.s regular, but reading some of the text it would seem not.
>Anyway, I think the author has done what you're describing.
>[/color]
Yep. What I wanted was an automated tool. That way I could just upload
pictures and not have to re-code. All of the galley systems I have
found use tables.
--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org

http://www.darfurgenocide.org

http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"

[Matt Silberstein]

Re: Photo Gallery with CSS?

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 14:08:50 GMT, in
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.stylesheets ,
comments@prober tencyclopaedia. com (Matt Probert) in
<4370b07e.12565 31@news.ntlworl d.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On 8 Nov 2005 05:14:26 -0800, "Adam Risser" <arisser@gmail. com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Hi Matt,
>>
>> I don't know of a gallery that produces the layout in tableless code,
>> but I do know that it is easy to take coppermine's templates and edit
>> them to be that way.
>>
>> I'd stick with coppermine and just spend a few minutes editing the
>> templates.
>>
>> Adam[/color]
>
>By all means arrange the layout how so ever you desire.
>
>The argument over here at AWW is really one of prejudice and bigotry
>rather than one built upon sensibility.
>
>That a grid of pictures is a table, and therefore the use of HTML
><table> markup is valid for it is the argument here. Whether or not it
>is the cleanest or fastest rendering method of presenting the grid of
>images is another matter!
>[/color]
And I am being sensible since what I want is to have the resultant
page re-size. I don't want horizontal scroll-bars, I want the images
to fill the available widths. To put it another way, my goal is not
tabular since there is no information contained in the fact that a
particular image is in the fifth column rather than the fourth.

--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org

http://www.darfurgenocide.org

http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"

[Matt Silberstein]

Re: Photo Gallery with CSS?

On 8 Nov 2005 05:14:26 -0800, in
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.stylesheets , "Adam Risser"
<arisser@gmail. com> in
<1131455666.613 972.85630@g14g2 000cwa.googlegr oups.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Hi Matt,
>
>I don't know of a gallery that produces the layout in tableless code,
>but I do know that it is easy to take coppermine's templates and edit
>them to be that way.
>
>I'd stick with coppermine and just spend a few minutes editing the
>templates.[/color]

I will try. Coppermine is really overkill for me, but since it is
working if changing the template will do it I am happy.

--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org

http://www.darfurgenocide.org

http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"

[mbstevens]

Re: Photo Gallery with CSS?

Matt Probert wrote:[color=blue]
> On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 11:04:13 +0000, Dylan Parry <usenet@dylanpa rry.com>
> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>Trapped in the departure lounge at
>>alt.https://www.webmaster,comp.infosyste...ng.stylesheets, SpaceGirl
>>got bored and wrote:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Aren't galleries tabulated data, therefor exactly what tables are
>>>designed for...? :)[/color]
>>
>>It depends really. I would say that a grid of pictures along with
>>description s/other information *is* tabular data, but a grid of just
>>pictures isn't.[/color]
>
>
>
> Tabular - adjective. As defined (in part) by the Oxford English
> Dictionary:
>
> "Of the nature of or pertaining to a table, scheme, or systematic
> display; set down or arranged systematically, as in lines and
> columns."
>
> And further, regarding Table - noun. As defined (in part) by the
> Oxford English Dictionary:
>
> "A systematic display of numbers, words, or items of any kind, in a
> definite and compact form, so as clearly to exhibit some set of facts
> or relations; esp. a display of information in columns and lines
> occupying a single defined area"
>
> Therefore, by definition a grid of pictures is tabular data, and
> therefore a table is the most appropriate structure to use to display
> it.
>
> Matt
>[/color]
The reference to general dictionaries in this kind of situation has
always left me unsatisfied. First, there are prescriptive dictionaries,
and there are descriptive dictionaries. The two kinds often disagree.
Secondly, in either case, I don't trust the people who edit these
dictionaries to be good judges of experts in the field -- the 'expert'
that wrote the entry might very well be mistaken about many things. And
third, the use of words is in constant flux, and different groups have
their own ideas about prescriptive guidelines for use.

Now, if you'd referred to a mathematical or statistical dictionary it'd
make me a bit happier. If you'd quoted someone who wrote a text on
matrix algebra or bookkeeping, I'd be happier still. But to refer to
the 'official' definition of something in the OED doesn't mean that
anyone should be obligated to accept it at all.

<pardon the rant> Just my training, I suppose. </pardon the rant>

[William Tasso]

Re: Photo Gallery with CSS?

Writing in
news:alt.https://www.webmaster,comp.infosyste...ng.stylesheets
From the safety of the NTL cafeteria
Matt Probert <comments@probe rtencyclopaedia .com> said:
[color=blue]
> ...
> No relationship is implied nor required by a table. Just the
> presentation of some items in rows and columns.[/color]
[color=blue]
> ...
> Tables by definition, do not require column headings.[/color]

is it panto season already?

--
William Tasso

virtue is its own punishment