Grammer teachers - a html page or an html page

[Peter]

Hi:

I am bored and was wondering:

Is it

a html page?

or

an html page?

A html page just sounds funny, but where is the vowel to justify an html page.
I think I need a beer.

[Mark Parnell]

Re: Grammer teachers - a html page or an html page

On 27 Sep 2004 21:53:55 -0700, Peter <deadender66@ya hoo.ca> declared in
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html:
[color=blue]
> Hi:[/color]

G'day.
[color=blue]
> Is it
>
> a html page?[/color]

No.
[color=blue]
> an html page?[/color]

Yes.
[color=blue]
> A html page just sounds funny, but where is the vowel to justify an html page.[/color]

You don't need one. In this case, it is not a real word but an acronym,
which is pronounced letter by letter. Effectively, the first "word" in
HTML" is "aich", which does begin with a vowel.

Even if it was a real word, words beginning with 'h' are supposed to be
preceded by 'an', not 'a'. I.e. an historic occasion.
[color=blue]
> I think I need a beer.[/color]

Have one for me.

--
Mark Parnell

http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au

[Mark Tranchant]

Re: Grammer teachers - a html page or an html page

Peter wrote:
[color=blue]
> I am bored and was wondering:
>
> Is it
>
> a html page?
>
> or
>
> an html page?
>
> A html page just sounds funny, but where is the vowel to justify an html page.
> I think I need a beer.[/color]

The vowel is in "aitch", the letter sound. Hence "an HTML page" but "a
U-boat", as "yoo" starts with a consonant.

Oh, and it's "grammar", not "grammer".

--
Mark.

http://tranchant.plus.com/

[Mark Tranchant]

Re: Grammer teachers - a html page or an html page

Mark Parnell wrote:
[color=blue]
> Even if it was a real word, words beginning with 'h' are supposed to be
> preceded by 'an', not 'a'. I.e. an historic occasion.[/color]

Do you have an authoritative reference for this rule? I don't believe
it's anything more than a convention, probably from dialects that tend
to drop initial "h" sounds. "An hypertext markup language document"
sounds ridiculous.

Oh, and you meant "e.g." (exempli gratia, for example) not "i.e." (id
est, that is).

--
Mark.

http://tranchant.plus.com/

[Mark Parnell]

Re: Grammer teachers - a html page or an html page

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:15:43 +0100, Mark Tranchant
<mark@tranchant .plus.com> declared in
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html:
[color=blue]
> Do you have an authoritative reference for this rule?[/color]

It's what I was always taught growing up. :-) What would you consider
authoritative?
[color=blue]
> I don't believe
> it's anything more than a convention, probably from dialects that tend
> to drop initial "h" sounds. "An hypertext markup language document"
> sounds ridiculous.[/color]

I think these days either is generally accepted.
[color=blue]
> Oh, and you meant "e.g." (exempli gratia, for example) not "i.e." (id
> est, that is).[/color]

Good point.

--
Mark Parnell

http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Re: Grammer teachers - a html page or an html page

Mark Tranchant <mark@tranchant .plus.com> wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Even if it was a real word, words beginning with 'h' are supposed to
>> be preceded by 'an', not 'a'. I.e. an historic occasion.[/color]
>
> Do you have an authoritative reference for this rule? I don't believe
> it's anything more than a convention, probably from dialects that
> tend to drop initial "h" sounds.[/color]

The situation is fairly complex:
"In speech and writing a is used before a consonant sound <a door> <a
human>. Before a vowel sound an is usual <an icicle> <an honor> but
especially in speech a is used occasionally, more often in some dialects
than in others <a apple> <a hour> <a obligation>. Before a consonant
sound represented by a vowel letter a is usual <a one> <a union> but an
also occurs though less frequently now than formerly <an unique> <such an
one>. Before unstressed or weakly stressed syllables with initial h both
a and an are used in writing <a historic> <an historic> but in speech an
is more frequent whether \h\ is pronounced or not."
http://www.m-w.com/ s.v. a[2, indefinite article]

However, the principle in official orthography (to the extent that there
is such a thing for English) is that the _pronunciation_ of the
expression that follows is decisive, specifically its first sound,
not the first letter. So "an HTML page" is more correct.

Please take this to alt.usage.engli sh, a (!) hyperactive but otherwise
very nice group, if doubts remain. Don't forget to check its FAQ list
at http://www.alt-usage-english.org/ first, I'm pretty sure they have a
good entry on this issue (the server is right now out of order/network).

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html

[Andreas Prilop]

Re: Grammer teachers - a html page or an html page

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004, Mark Tranchant wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> A html page just sounds funny, but where is the vowel to justify an html page.
>> I think I need a beer.[/color]
>
> The vowel is in "aitch", the letter sound. Hence "an HTML page" but "a
> U-boat", as "yoo" starts with a consonant.[/color]

Next question:
an .htaccess file
or
a .htaccess file
?

--
Top-posting.
What's the most irritating thing on Usenet?

[Mark Tranchant]

Re: Grammer teachers - a html page or an html page

Andreas Prilop wrote:
[color=blue]
> Next question:
> an .htaccess file
> or
> a .htaccess file
> ?[/color]

:-)

The definitive answer should, of course, be however The Queen chooses to
pronounce it. I doubt she's has reason to consider the pronounciation of
..htaccess before...

--
Mark.

http://tranchant.plus.com/

[Neal]

Re: Grammer teachers - a html page or an html page

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:15:43 +0100, Mark Tranchant
<mark@tranchant .plus.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Mark Parnell wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Even if it was a real word, words beginning with 'h' are supposed to be
>> preceded by 'an', not 'a'. I.e. an historic occasion.[/color]
>
> Do you have an authoritative reference for this rule? I don't believe
> it's anything more than a convention, probably from dialects that tend
> to drop initial "h" sounds.[/color]

It's based solely on pronunciation, boys. If you pronounce the word
"is-to'-rik" you use "an" - if, like me, you say the h, "a" is correct.

[David Dorward]

Re: Grammer teachers - a html page or an html page

Andreas Prilop wrote:
[color=blue]
> Next question:
> an .htaccess file
> or
> a .htaccess file
> ?[/color]

As it is pronounced "dot aitch tea access": "a".

--
David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me .uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
Home is where the ~/.bashrc is

[Sam Hughes]

Re: Grammer teachers - a html page or an html page

David Dorward <dorward@yahoo. com> wrote in news:cjcau0$fbc $1$8300dec7
@news.demon.co. uk:
[color=blue]
> Andreas Prilop wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Next question:
>> an .htaccess file
>> or
>> a .htaccess file
>> ?[/color]
>
> As it is pronounced "dot aitch tea access": "a".[/color]

As it is pronounced, "huhtaxis file" with a very soft h: "an". :)

[Mark Parnell]

Re: Grammer teachers - a html page or an html page

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:33:42 +0200, Andreas Prilop
<nhtcapri@rrz n-user.uni-hannover.de> declared in
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html:
[color=blue]
> an .htaccess file[/color]

If you don't pronounce the dot.
[color=blue]
> a .htaccess file[/color]

If you do pronounce the dot. :-D

--
Mark Parnell

http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au

[Harlan Messinger]

Re: Grammer teachers - a html page or an html page

deadender66@yah oo.ca (Peter) wrote:
[color=blue]
>Hi:
>
>I am bored and was wondering:
>
>Is it
>
>a html page?
>
>or
>
>an html page?
>
>A html page just sounds funny, but where is the vowel to justify an html page.
>I think I need a beer.[/color]

Vowels and consonants are sounds, not letters. When we speak of vowel
letters and consonant letters, it's just a shortcut for referring to
letters that usually represent vowels or consonants, respectively.

The name of the letter H, "aitch", starts with a vowel.

--
Harlan Messinger
Remove the first dot from my e-mail address.
Veuillez ôter le premier point de mon adresse de courriel.

[Philipp Lenssen]

Re: Grammer teachers - a html page or an html page

Mark Tranchant wrote:
[color=blue]
> Oh, and you meant "e.g." (exempli gratia, for example) not "i.e." (id
> est, that is).[/color]

I copied that to my clipboard, thanks. It's always good to know the
Latin one writes :)

--
Google Blogoscoped

http://blog.outer-court.com

[Philipp Lenssen]

Re: Grammer teachers - a html page or an html page

Andreas Prilop wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> Next question:
> an .htaccess file
> or
> a .htaccess file
> ?[/color]

Often with questions like these I perform a site:cnn.com search for
both alternatives I have in mind -- whatever yields more results I will
take. For German grammar, I use Spiegel.de. Of course in your case the
topic at hand might be too technical for CNN.com to cover. Maybe
whatis.com ...

PS: "An SQL database" or "a SQL database"? I suppose it matters if you
pronounce it "As-Cue-Ell" or "Sequel".

--
Google Blogoscoped

http://blog.outer-court.com