new programmer

[amruta]

hi,
i m new in programming.at present i m learning computer languages.
i just want to know how u can develop a skills of any language, how u
can be master in any languages.
can any one help me.

[rlblaster@gmail.com]

Re: new programmer

Practise!

[santosh]

Re: new programmer

amruta wrote:[color=blue]
> hi,
> i m new in programming.at present i m learning computer languages.
> i just want to know how u can develop a skills of any language, how u
> can be master in any languages.
> can any one help me.[/color]

This newsgroup deals only with the C language as specified by it's ISO
standards. comp.programmin g might be a better place for you.

<OT>
In general, achieving a modicum of expertise in programming, (if it is
possible at all), requires a strong grasp of the fundamentals of
mathematics, logic and the ability to deal effortlessly with various
levels of abstraction and strong abilities of conceptualisati on. As in
any other major work, it takes years of practise and patience. There
are no shortcuts, atleast none which won't backfire under duress.
</OT>

[CBFalconer]

Re: new programmer

amruta wrote:[color=blue]
>
> i m new in programming.at present i m learning computer languages.
> i just want to know how u can develop a skills of any language, how u
> can be master in any languages.
> can any one help me.[/color]

I suggest you start by learning to capitalize and punctuate
correctly in English, not to mention the proper spelling of such
words as 'you' and the use of the apostrophe '. This makes your
communications MUCH easier to read, and I'm assuming you really do
want other people to read them. Note the use of blank space after
full-stops.

People here are very tolerant of language barriers, but highly
intolerant of such abortions as 'u' for 'you'. Usenet is not a
chat room.

Since you are using google, before posting again please read my sig
following, and read the referenced URLs.

--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.c om, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell. org/google/>
Also see <http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsrep ly/>

[Richard G. Riley]

Re: new programmer

On 2006-02-19, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yah oo.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> amruta wrote:[color=green]
>>
>> i m new in programming.at present i m learning computer languages.
>> i just want to know how u can develop a skills of any language, how u
>> can be master in any languages.
>> can any one help me.[/color]
>
> I suggest you start by learning to capitalize and punctuate
> correctly in English, not to mention the proper spelling of such
> words as 'you' and the use of the apostrophe '. This makes your
> communications MUCH easier to read, and I'm assuming you really do
> want other people to read them. Note the use of blank space after
> full-stops.[/color]

I think he was asking about programming languages, but I'm sure your
essay on how perfect English is required will be equally useful. Or
not. I suspect he, as others, will draw his own opinion on your
"advice".

[Keith Thompson]

Re: new programmer

"Richard G. Riley" <rgrileyevomer@ gmail.com> writes:[color=blue]
> On 2006-02-19, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yah oo.com> wrote:[color=green]
>> amruta wrote:[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> i m new in programming.at present i m learning computer languages.
>>> i just want to know how u can develop a skills of any language, how u
>>> can be master in any languages.
>>> can any one help me.[/color]
>>
>> I suggest you start by learning to capitalize and punctuate
>> correctly in English, not to mention the proper spelling of such
>> words as 'you' and the use of the apostrophe '. This makes your
>> communications MUCH easier to read, and I'm assuming you really do
>> want other people to read them. Note the use of blank space after
>> full-stops.[/color]
>
> I think he was asking about programming languages, but I'm sure your
> essay on how perfect English is required will be equally useful. Or
> not. I suspect he, as others, will draw his own opinion on your
> "advice".[/color]

Programming requires even more discipline than writing in English;
compilers don't forgive minor errors. (Actually, particularly in C,
they sometimes do, but the result isn't likely to be a close
approximation of what you intended.)

More directly, communicating with fellow programmers requires some
language skills. Many of us are unwilling to spend extra time and
effort deciphering silly abbreviations; making some effort to write in
standard English is both common courtesy and good sense. At the very
least, if I'm going to be reading someone's code, I want to be able to
read both the code and the comments.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keit h) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.

[Richard G. Riley]

Re: new programmer

On 2006-02-19, Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:[color=blue]
> "Richard G. Riley" <rgrileyevomer@ gmail.com> writes:[color=green]
>> On 2006-02-19, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yah oo.com> wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> amruta wrote:
>>>>
>>>> i m new in programming.at present i m learning computer languages.
>>>> i just want to know how u can develop a skills of any language, how u
>>>> can be master in any languages.
>>>> can any one help me.
>>>
>>> I suggest you start by learning to capitalize and punctuate
>>> correctly in English, not to mention the proper spelling of such
>>> words as 'you' and the use of the apostrophe '. This makes your
>>> communications MUCH easier to read, and I'm assuming you really do
>>> want other people to read them. Note the use of blank space after
>>> full-stops.[/color]
>>
>> I think he was asking about programming languages, but I'm sure your
>> essay on how perfect English is required will be equally useful. Or
>> not. I suspect he, as others, will draw his own opinion on your
>> "advice".[/color]
>
> Programming requires even more discipline than writing in English;[/color]

Only in that our brains are forgiving computers.
[color=blue]
> compilers don't forgive minor errors. (Actually, particularly in C,
> they sometimes do, but the result isn't likely to be a close
> approximation of what you intended.)[/color]

Whatever.
[color=blue]
>
> More directly, communicating with fellow programmers requires some
> language skills. Many of us are unwilling to spend extra time and[/color]

Actually, I have communicated with programmers for years : many of
whom have very poor English. The medium was the system/language being discussed.
[color=blue]
> effort deciphering silly abbreviations; making some effort to write in
> standard English is both common courtesy and good sense. At the
> very[/color]

If English is your first language.
[color=blue]
> least, if I'm going to be reading someone's code, I want to be able to
> read both the code and the comments.
>[/color]

And I would hope you would give some leeway to someone whose first
language is not English. Maybe you are too important and dont have
enough time to decipher "missing capitals" : I dont know.


--
Remove evomer to reply

[Keith Thompson]

Re: new programmer

"Richard G. Riley" <rgrileyevomer@ gmail.com> writes:[color=blue]
> On 2006-02-19, Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:[/color]
[...][color=blue][color=green]
>> More directly, communicating with fellow programmers requires some
>> language skills. Many of us are unwilling to spend extra time and[/color]
>
> Actually, I have communicated with programmers for years : many of
> whom have very poor English. The medium was the system/language
> being discussed.
>[color=green]
>> effort deciphering silly abbreviations; making some effort to write in
>> standard English is both common courtesy and good sense. At the
>> very[/color]
>
> If English is your first language.
>[color=green]
>> least, if I'm going to be reading someone's code, I want to be able to
>> read both the code and the comments.
>>[/color]
>
> And I would hope you would give some leeway to someone whose first
> language is not English. Maybe you are too important and dont have
> enough time to decipher "missing capitals" : I dont know.[/color]

This kind of thing has come up here many times before. We're
generally willing to make allowances for people whose first language
isn't English. What we don't tolerate is silly abbreviations like "u"
for "you". These aren't (I think) the result of English being a
second language; I think they're probably common in short text
messaging.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keit h) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.

[A. Sinan Unur]

Re: new programmer

"Richard G. Riley" <rgrileyevomer@ gmail.com> wrote in
news:45s9bmF891 mgU1@individual .net:
[color=blue]
> On 2006-02-19, Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:[color=green]
>> "Richard G. Riley" <rgrileyevomer@ gmail.com> writes:[color=darkred]
>>> On 2006-02-19, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yah oo.com> wrote:
>>>> amruta wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> i m new in programming.at present i m learning computer languages.
>>>>> i just want to know how u can develop a skills of any language,
>>>>> how u can be master in any languages.
>>>>> can any one help me.
>>>>
>>>> I suggest you start by learning to capitalize and punctuate
>>>> correctly in English, not to mention the proper spelling of such
>>>> words as 'you' and the use of the apostrophe '. This makes your
>>>> communications MUCH easier to read, and I'm assuming you really do
>>>> want other people to read them. Note the use of blank space after
>>>> full-stops.
>>>
>>> I think he was asking about programming languages, but I'm sure your
>>> essay on how perfect English is required will be equally useful. Or
>>> not. I suspect he, as others, will draw his own opinion on your
>>> "advice".[/color][/color][/color]
....[color=blue][color=green]
>> More directly, communicating with fellow programmers requires some
>> language skills. Many of us are unwilling to spend extra time and[/color]
>
> Actually, I have communicated with programmers for years : many of
> whom have very poor English. The medium was the system/language being
> discussed.
>[color=green]
>> effort deciphering silly abbreviations; making some effort to write
>> in standard English is both common courtesy and good sense. At the
>> very[/color]
>
> If English is your first language.[/color]

Especially if English is not your first language.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> least, if I'm going to be reading someone's code, I want to be able
>> to read both the code and the comments.
>>[/color]
>
> And I would hope you would give some leeway to someone whose first
> language is not English. Maybe you are too important and dont have
> enough time to decipher "missing capitals" : I dont know.[/color]

u shd rd mre if ur bks!

I cannot exactly replicate the weird writing I have come across, but I
remember sentences that were similar to the one above. Now what on God's
Green Earth does that mean?

It is easier for a native speaker to recognize the patterns. Not being
one myself, I prefer to read material that immediately makes sense
because it follows the rules and patterns of the language as I have
learned them.

Note that CBFalconer was not complaining about bad grammar/vocabulary.
Those kinds of mistakes happen when one is typing. For example, I think
he wrote 'abortions' when he had, in fact, intended to type
"abominatio ns".

No, his problem was with the intentionally cryptic SMS/IM style
communication which indeed makes it much harder for me to understand
exactly what the poster is talking about.

Sinan

--
A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.u de.invalid>
(reverse each component and remove .invalid for email address)

[Rod Pemberton]

Re: new programmer


"A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.u de.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns976FB90 D6FED7asu1corne lledu@127.0.0.1 ...[color=blue]
> "Richard G. Riley" <rgrileyevomer@ gmail.com> wrote in
> news:45s9bmF891 mgU1@individual .net:
>[color=green]
> > On 2006-02-19, Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> "Richard G. Riley" <rgrileyevomer@ gmail.com> writes:
> >>> On 2006-02-19, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yah oo.com> wrote:
> >>>> amruta wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> i m new in programming.at present i m learning computer languages.
> >>>>> i just want to know how u can develop a skills of any language,
> >>>>> how u can be master in any languages.
> >>>>> can any one help me.
> >>>>
> >>>> I suggest you start by learning to capitalize and punctuate
> >>>> correctly in English, not to mention the proper spelling of such
> >>>> words as 'you' and the use of the apostrophe '. This makes your
> >>>> communications MUCH easier to read, and I'm assuming you really do
> >>>> want other people to read them. Note the use of blank space after
> >>>> full-stops.
> >>>
> >>> I think he was asking about programming languages, but I'm sure your
> >>> essay on how perfect English is required will be equally useful. Or
> >>> not. I suspect he, as others, will draw his own opinion on your
> >>> "advice".[/color][/color]
> ...[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> More directly, communicating with fellow programmers requires some
> >> language skills. Many of us are unwilling to spend extra time and[/color]
> >
> > Actually, I have communicated with programmers for years : many of
> > whom have very poor English. The medium was the system/language being
> > discussed.
> >[color=darkred]
> >> effort deciphering silly abbreviations; making some effort to write
> >> in standard English is both common courtesy and good sense. At the
> >> very[/color]
> >
> > If English is your first language.[/color]
>
> Especially if English is not your first language.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> least, if I'm going to be reading someone's code, I want to be able
> >> to read both the code and the comments.
> >>[/color]
> >
> > And I would hope you would give some leeway to someone whose first
> > language is not English. Maybe you are too important and dont have
> > enough time to decipher "missing capitals" : I dont know.[/color]
>
> u shd rd mre if ur bks!
>
> I cannot exactly replicate the weird writing I have come across, but I
> remember sentences that were similar to the one above. Now what on God's
> Green Earth does that mean?[/color]

"You should read more if [sic,of] you're books."
[color=blue]
> It is easier for a native speaker to recognize the patterns. Not being
> one myself, I prefer to read material that immediately makes sense
> because it follows the rules and patterns of the language as I have
> learned them.[/color]

Most of the good programmers I've known are terrible in English but strong
in Mathematics. Like you said, it's not an issue for native English
speakers who can comprehend the text as long as the first and last letters
are correct and some consonants are present. Links to Graham Rawlinson's
work in psycholinguisti cs:

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg16221887.600

http://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/~mattd/Cmabrigde/rawlinson.html

[color=blue]
> Note that CBFalconer was not complaining about bad grammar/vocabulary.
> Those kinds of mistakes happen when one is typing. For example, I think
> he wrote 'abortions' when he had, in fact, intended to type
> "abominatio ns".[/color]

No. That's not a grammar/vocabulary problem. It's a psycholinguisti c error
which is known as a "Freudian slip."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freudian_slip

[color=blue]
> No, his problem was with the intentionally cryptic SMS/IM style
> communication which indeed makes it much harder for me to understand
> exactly what the poster is talking about.[/color]

English is a dynamic language. It does change. SMS/IM is driving a change
right now...


Rod Pemberton

[A. Sinan Unur]

Re: new programmer

"Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@so rry.bitbucket.c mm> wrote in
news:dtavul$cic $1@news1.greatn owhere.com:
[color=blue]
>
> "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.u de.invalid> wrote in message
> news:Xns976FB90 D6FED7asu1corne lledu@127.0.0.1 ...[/color]
....[color=blue][color=green]
>> u shd rd mre if ur bks!
>>
>> I cannot exactly replicate the weird writing I have come across, but
>> I remember sentences that were similar to the one above. Now what on
>> God's Green Earth does that mean?[/color]
>
> "You should read more if [sic,of] you're books."[/color]

"your books". ;-)
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Note that CBFalconer was not complaining about bad
>> grammar/vocabulary. Those kinds of mistakes happen when one is
>> typing. For example, I think he wrote 'abortions' when he had, in
>> fact, intended to type "abominatio ns".[/color]
>
> No. That's not a grammar/vocabulary problem. It's a psycholinguisti c
> error which is known as a "Freudian slip."[/color]

Same difference. What I mean was that we are not worried about the
occasional wrong word, or broken sentence.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> No, his problem was with the intentionally cryptic SMS/IM style
>> communication which indeed makes it much harder for me to understand
>> exactly what the poster is talking about.[/color]
>
> English is a dynamic language. It does change. SMS/IM is driving a
> change right now...[/color]

Of course, all languages change all the time. However, judging from the
posts in this group, I am happy to say that the move towards SMS/IM
spelling has not completely overpowered other forms.

Sinan

--
A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.u de.invalid>
(reverse each component and remove .invalid for email address)

[Flash Gordon]

Re: new programmer

A. Sinan Unur wrote:[color=blue]
> "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@so rry.bitbucket.c mm> wrote in
> news:dtavul$cic $1@news1.greatn owhere.com:
>[color=green]
>> "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.u de.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:Xns976FB90 D6FED7asu1corne lledu@127.0.0.1 ...[/color]
> ...[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> u shd rd mre if ur bks![/color][/color][/color]

<snip>
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Note that CBFalconer was not complaining about bad
>>> grammar/vocabulary. Those kinds of mistakes happen when one is
>>> typing. For example, I think he wrote 'abortions' when he had, in
>>> fact, intended to type "abominatio ns".[/color]
>> No. That's not a grammar/vocabulary problem. It's a psycholinguisti c
>> error which is known as a "Freudian slip."[/color]
>
> Same difference. What I mean was that we are not worried about the
> occasional wrong word, or broken sentence.[/color]

Agreed.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> No, his problem was with the intentionally cryptic SMS/IM style
>>> communication which indeed makes it much harder for me to understand
>>> exactly what the poster is talking about.[/color]
>> English is a dynamic language. It does change. SMS/IM is driving a
>> change right now...[/color]
>
> Of course, all languages change all the time. However, judging from the
> posts in this group, I am happy to say that the move towards SMS/IM
> spelling has not completely overpowered other forms.[/color]

I've seen a few (somewhere between two and five) people claiming that
English is moving towards SMS speak, but I see far less evidence of it
than other things which still are not considered acceptable. So although
I agree that all living languages evolve I don't believe SMS/IM is
currently a driving force.
--
Flash Gordon
Living in interesting times.
Web site - http://home.flash-gordon.me.uk/
comp.lang.c posting guidlines and intro -

http://clc-wiki.net/wiki/Intro_to_clc

[CBFalconer]

Re: new programmer

Keith Thompson wrote:[color=blue]
> "Richard G. Riley" <rgrileyevomer@ gmail.com> writes:[color=green]
>> On 2006-02-19, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yah oo.com> wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> amruta wrote:
>>>>
>>>> i m new in programming.at present i m learning computer languages.
>>>> i just want to know how u can develop a skills of any language, how u
>>>> can be master in any languages.
>>>> can any one help me.
>>>
>>> I suggest you start by learning to capitalize and punctuate
>>> correctly in English, not to mention the proper spelling of such
>>> words as 'you' and the use of the apostrophe '. This makes your
>>> communications MUCH easier to read, and I'm assuming you really do
>>> want other people to read them. Note the use of blank space after
>>> full-stops.[/color]
>>
>> I think he was asking about programming languages, but I'm sure your
>> essay on how perfect English is required will be equally useful. Or
>> not. I suspect he, as others, will draw his own opinion on your
>> "advice".[/color]
>
> Programming requires even more discipline than writing in English;
> compilers don't forgive minor errors. (Actually, particularly in C,
> they sometimes do, but the result isn't likely to be a close
> approximation of what you intended.)
>
> More directly, communicating with fellow programmers requires some
> language skills. Many of us are unwilling to spend extra time and
> effort deciphering silly abbreviations; making some effort to write in
> standard English is both common courtesy and good sense. At the very
> least, if I'm going to be reading someone's code, I want to be able to
> read both the code and the comments.[/color]

I said as much in a paragraph Riley snipped, i.e.:
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> People here are very tolerant of language barriers, but highly
>>> intolerant of such abortions as 'u' for 'you'. Usenet is not a
>>> chat room.[/color][/color][/color]

--
Some useful references about C:
<http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt >
<http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
<http://benpfaff.org/writings/clc/off-topic.html>
<http://anubis.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n869/> (C99)
<http://www.dinkumware. com/refxc.html> (C-library}
<http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/> (GNU docs)
<http://clc-wiki.net> (C-info)

[William J. Leary Jr.]

Re: new programmer

"Keith Thompson" <kst-u@mib.org> wrote in message
news:ln64nb54ix .fsf@nuthaus.mi b.org...[color=blue]
> This kind of thing has come up here many times before.[/color]

I've been thinking about this a lot in the last month or so. In part due to an
argument in the real (face-to-face) world with someone over what the hell they
mean in an SMS they sent me, and in part because of the frequent admonitions
not to do it in this group.

Another, and perhaps far more important, reason occurred to me a week or so
back and I've been watching several groups I'm involved in to see if it's true,
and it seems to be.

Specifically, an important part of participating in a usenet group is to comply
with it's culture. You stay within whatever it's culture says are the limits
for how far off topic messages can be, you do or don't post binaries to the
appropriate groups, if the group uses almost nothing but short messages, you
don't jump in post long ones, if it says "only post code you've compiled," you
do it that way. All those obvious things. Another factor is that you deal
with the group the way it's culture works. In this (and a few other groups)
it's pretty damn clear that using this sort of posting is considered bad form.
If you've lurked for even a few days before posting, this point HAD to have
become clear. If you didn't lurk first, in itself bad form in any group, then
you get a not particularly nasty chiding from one of the regulars. If you're
grown up about it, you look around, see that you're NOT being singled out, and
say to yourself, "oh, oops" and you move on.

- Bill

[Richard G. Riley]

Re: new programmer

On 2006-02-19, A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.u de.invalid> wrote:[color=blue]
> No, his problem was with the intentionally cryptic SMS/IM style
> communication which indeed makes it much harder for me to understand
> exactly what the poster is talking about.
>
> Sinan
>[/color]

No where did anyone say that cryptic postings were easier to
understand.




--
Remove evomer to reply