Utility for Table Schemas

**Armen Stein** · Nov 7 '06, 01:45 AM

Re: Utility for Table Schemas

Here's what we do:

At first: on a whiteboard or using pencil & paper, we sketch out the
high level tables using circles (tables) and lines (relationships) . We
indicate the one and many side of each relationship. We may note a
few critical fields under each table, or some sample data in quotes.

When we feel that the initial table level of design will work, we
enter it directly into Access or SQL Server, and use the relationships
window (in Access) or a Diagram (in SQL Server) to lay it all out
graphically.

We don't use a third party tool, but Visio can do it (as another
poster suggested). Another (more expensive) tool is ERWin.

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:43:41 GMT, "Neil" <nospam@nospam. netwrote:

>Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
>this -- doesn't have to be fancy.
>
>You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use
>this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most
>people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or just
>go straight to table design?
>

Armen Stein
Microsoft Access MVP

Microsoft Access, Custom Database, & Web Development | J Street Technology

https://www.JStreetTech.com

Expert Microsoft Access development, database modernization, and custom software development backed by decades of proven experience.

**Neil** · Nov 7 '06, 09:25 AM

Re: Utility for Table Schemas

Thanks for that!

"Michael Gramelspacher" <gramelsp@psci. netwrote in message
news:MPG.1fb9a3 bb8159bbbf9896a 9@msnews.micros oft.com...

In article <xUO3h.3032$l25 .2949
@newsread4.news .pas.earthlink. net>, nospam@nospam.n et says...

>Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
>this -- doesn't have to be fancy.
>>
>You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I
>use
>this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most
>people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or
>just
>go straight to table design?
>>

I was also expecting to see lots of replies.
This is the only thing I have encountered that is free.
(Assuming it can still be downloaded.)

fabFORCE.net

http://www.fabforce.net/dbdesigner4/

fabFORCE.net Database Tools

it is really for use with Mysql.
>
I have also seen this recommended, but the cheapest version is
$229. http://www.datanamic.com/
>
There are many others and most are expensive.
>

**Neil** · Nov 7 '06, 09:25 AM

Re: Utility for Table Schemas

Thanks for the feedback. I can see the usefulness of that approach. I just
have an aversion to sketching things out manually, and prefer to do
everything on the PC. In the past, I've always just gone in and created
tables in Access, using it as a design tool of sorts. But this project I'm
starting is somewhat complex, and I wanted to lay it out first before going
to table design.

"Armen Stein" <ArmenStein@R3m 00v3Th1s.gmail. comwrote in message
news:u3qvk2tsk3 bjp36qvehtajhei mc4ek2ph0@4ax.c om...

>
Here's what we do:
>
At first: on a whiteboard or using pencil & paper, we sketch out the
high level tables using circles (tables) and lines (relationships) . We
indicate the one and many side of each relationship. We may note a
few critical fields under each table, or some sample data in quotes.
>
When we feel that the initial table level of design will work, we
enter it directly into Access or SQL Server, and use the relationships
window (in Access) or a Diagram (in SQL Server) to lay it all out
graphically.
>
We don't use a third party tool, but Visio can do it (as another
poster suggested). Another (more expensive) tool is ERWin.
>
On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:43:41 GMT, "Neil" <nospam@nospam. netwrote:
>

>>Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
>>this -- doesn't have to be fancy.
>>
>>You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use
>>this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most
>>people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or
>>just
>>go straight to table design?
>>

>
Armen Stein
Microsoft Access MVP

Microsoft Access, Custom Database, & Web Development | J Street Technology

https://www.JStreetTech.com

Expert Microsoft Access development, database modernization, and custom software development backed by decades of proven experience.

>

**Paul Ibison** · Nov 7 '06, 11:25 AM

Re: Utility for Table Schemas

Here's a nice list of such tools:

404 Not Found | Database Answers

http://www.databaseanswers.com/modelling_tools.htm

Can't vouch for any of the free ones, but can recommend Erwin, Visio and
Enterprise Architect, all of which I've used.
Cheers,
Paul Ibison SQL Server MVP, www.replicationanswers.com .

**Roger Carlson** · Nov 7 '06, 05:05 PM

Re: Utility for Table Schemas

Actually, you can use the graphic tools in Excel to draw boxes and lines to
create a simple ER diagrams.

In my classes, I give the students a PowerPoint template that has all the
objects created that they can just copy and paste into a new PowerPoint
document to draw their ER diagrams. It actually works pretty well. You can
find it here: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/TutorialsDesign.html

--
--Roger Carlson
MS Access MVP

https://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com

"Neil" <nospam@nospam. netwrote in message
news:CQO3h.3028 $l25.1361@newsr ead4.news.pas.e arthlink.net...

Yes, I can list tables and fields in Excel; but I'd like to visually
display table relationships and joins. Surely there must be a tool out

there

that does this.
>
"Karl" <someone@sbcglo bal.bizwrote in message
news:nMJ3h.6245 $B31.5258@newss vr27.news.prodi gy.net...

You can do this in Excel.

"Neil" <nospam@nospam. netwrote in message
news:MBz3h.3493 $ig4.705@newsre ad2.news.pas.ea rthlink.net...

>I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a
>graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the

designing

>work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up
>relationship s, and print the schemas, without creating the tables, and
>then create the tables once I'm done with all the design work. Seems

that

>such a utility exists.
>
>
"Allen Browne" <AllenBrowne@Se eSig.Invalidwro te in message
news:O49hbGu$GH A.4328@TK2MSFTN GP03.phx.gbl...
>>A utility to develop table schemas?
>>
>If ou are looking for suggestions on how to design schemas for a

variety

>of needs, this might be useful:
> http://www.databaseanswers.com/data_models/index.htm
>>
>In general, though, you only go go the trouble of creating a custom
>database if there is no off-the-shelf solution. Therefore the bespoke
>Access databases you create all have unique needs, and cannot be
>designed by a utility.
>>
>--
>Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia.
>Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
>Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.
>>
>"Neil" <nospam@nospam. netwrote in message
>news:4ju2h.162 9$l25.515@newsr ead4.news.pas.e arthlink.net...
>>Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility

for

>>developing table schemas.
>>
>>
>
>

>
>

**rkc** · Nov 7 '06, 09:45 PM

Re: Utility for Table Schemas

Neil wrote:

Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
this -- doesn't have to be fancy.
>
You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use
this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most
people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or just
go straight to table design?

mspaint.exe

**Tim Marshall** · Nov 8 '06, 02:45 AM

Re: Utility for Table Schemas

Neil wrote:

With me, if it's not on my PC, it gets lost. The only way I find mail is by
knowing which part of the floor it was left on.... My computer files, on the
other hand, are very organized. :-)

8) Re the stickies, the good thing about this stage of development
means I take a day (or three) to clear the myriads of paper, empty pop
bottles, sandwich crusts to clear off my desk and organize myself. 8)

--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me

**Neil** · Nov 9 '06, 05:35 PM

Re: Utility for Table Schemas

Thanks!

"Paul Ibison" <Paul.Ibison@Py gmalion.Comwrot e in message
news:eVDuYEmAHH A.1012@TK2MSFTN GP04.phx.gbl...

Here's a nice list of such tools:

404 Not Found | Database Answers

http://www.databaseanswers.com/modelling_tools.htm

Can't vouch for any of the free ones, but can recommend Erwin, Visio and
Enterprise Architect, all of which I've used.
Cheers,
Paul Ibison SQL Server MVP, www.replicationanswers.com .
>

**Neil** · Nov 9 '06, 05:35 PM

Re: Utility for Table Schemas

Yeah; or I could just use crayons. ;-)

"rkc" <rkc@rochester. yabba.dabba.do. rr.bombwrote in message
news:Lm74h.1024 9$zB4.2994@twis ter.nyroc.rr.co m...

Neil wrote:

>Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
>this -- doesn't have to be fancy.
>>
>You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I
>use this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do
>most people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel?
>Or just go straight to table design?

>
mspaint.exe

**Neil** · Nov 9 '06, 05:35 PM

Re: Utility for Table Schemas

Well, there is that! :-)

I've recently come up with a method for house/office cleaning. It's called
the "One Bag At A Time" method. What you do is you take a large plastic
garbage bag, walk around, and fill it up with trash, unneeded mail, other
miscellaneous unneeded things, and you keep going until the bag is full.
Then you take the bag out and stop. Then another time, you do another bag.
And you keep doing this until things are clean. This way, it's not too much
at once. And once you have the bag in your hand, you're motivated to find
stuff to put in it! :-)

N

"Tim Marshall" <TIMMY!@PurpleP andaChasers.Moe rtheriumwrote in message
news:eirekr$96d $2@coranto.ucs. mun.ca...

Neil wrote:

>With me, if it's not on my PC, it gets lost. The only way I find mail is
>by knowing which part of the floor it was left on.... My computer files,
>on the other hand, are very organized. :-)

>
8) Re the stickies, the good thing about this stage of development means
I take a day (or three) to clear the myriads of paper, empty pop bottles,
sandwich crusts to clear off my desk and organize myself. 8)
>
>
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me

**Neil** · Nov 9 '06, 05:35 PM

Re: Utility for Table Schemas

Thanks.

"Roger Carlson" <NO-Roger.J.Carlson-SPAM@gmail.comw rote in message
news:OGXusBpAHH A.3368@TK2MSFTN GP03.phx.gbl...

Actually, you can use the graphic tools in Excel to draw boxes and lines
to
create a simple ER diagrams.
>
In my classes, I give the students a PowerPoint template that has all the
objects created that they can just copy and paste into a new PowerPoint
document to draw their ER diagrams. It actually works pretty well. You can
find it here: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/TutorialsDesign.html
>
--
--Roger Carlson
MS Access MVP

https://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com

>
"Neil" <nospam@nospam. netwrote in message
news:CQO3h.3028 $l25.1361@newsr ead4.news.pas.e arthlink.net...

>Yes, I can list tables and fields in Excel; but I'd like to visually
>display table relationships and joins. Surely there must be a tool out

there

>that does this.
>>
>"Karl" <someone@sbcglo bal.bizwrote in message
>news:nMJ3h.624 5$B31.5258@news svr27.news.prod igy.net...

You can do this in Excel.
>
"Neil" <nospam@nospam. netwrote in message
news:MBz3h.3493 $ig4.705@newsre ad2.news.pas.ea rthlink.net...
>>I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a
>>graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the

designing

>>work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up
>>relationships , and print the schemas, without creating the tables, and
>>then create the tables once I'm done with all the design work. Seems

that

>>such a utility exists.
>>
>>
>"Allen Browne" <AllenBrowne@Se eSig.Invalidwro te in message
>news:O49hbGu$G HA.4328@TK2MSFT NGP03.phx.gbl.. .
>>>A utility to develop table schemas?
>>>
>>If ou are looking for suggestions on how to design schemas for a

variety

>>of needs, this might be useful:
>> http://www.databaseanswers.com/data_models/index.htm
>>>
>>In general, though, you only go go the trouble of creating a custom
>>database if there is no off-the-shelf solution. Therefore the bespoke
>>Access databases you create all have unique needs, and cannot be
>>designed by a utility.
>>>
>>--
>>Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia.
>>Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
>>Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.
>>>
>>"Neil" <nospam@nospam. netwrote in message
>>news:4ju2h.16 29$l25.515@news read4.news.pas. earthlink.net.. .
>>>Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility

for

>>>developing table schemas.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

>>
>>

>
>

**rkc** · Nov 10 '06, 12:25 AM

Re: Utility for Table Schemas

Neil wrote:

Yeah; or I could just use crayons. ;-)

Etch-A-Sketch

**Neil** · Nov 10 '06, 12:25 AM

Re: Utility for Table Schemas

Even better! :-)

"rkc" <rkc@rochester. yabba.dabba.do. rr.bombwrote in message
news:RTP4h.1096 5$zB4.8288@twis ter.nyroc.rr.co m...

Neil wrote:

>Yeah; or I could just use crayons. ;-)

>
Etch-A-Sketch

Utility for Table Schemas

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