DB developing

[Louly]

Hi everybody,

I'm a 22 yrs old girl. I've been developing a Database for 6 months no
using Access. A week ago I had this feeling that I'm wasting my time
in Access. I don't think it's wise to keep on working with Access.
Instead I think I should consider learning and being a certified Oracle
proffessional or something. What do you guys think?

Thanks for your help.
Miriam

[Keith Wilby]

Re: DB developing

"Louly" <miro1eg@gmail. com> wrote in message
news:1147332123 .315753.113160@ q12g2000cwa.goo glegroups.com.. .[color=blue]
> Hi everybody,
>
> I'm a 22 yrs old girl. I've been developing a Database for 6 months no
> using Access. A week ago I had this feeling that I'm wasting my time
> in Access. I don't think it's wise to keep on working with Access.
> Instead I think I should consider learning and being a certified Oracle
> proffessional or something. What do you guys think?
>
> Thanks for your help.
> Miriam
>[/color]

It depends what field of business you're in. Oracle is the heavyweight
contender but in my limited experience of it I am not aware of there being
any front end developer-interface as such - the systems I've worked on have
had very complexly coded HTML PL/SQL front ends. I am aware of a report
generator but it's a real pig compared to Access.You also don't have the
luxury of office links. Of course I stand to be corrected on all of this
since our version of Oracle is ancient but, as I say, depends what you want
to do.

Regards,
Keith.

https://www.keithwilby.com

[Louly]

Re: DB developing

Keith,

Thanks a lot for you quick response. I really don't know what to do!
I used Oracle in my graduation project and I fell in love with it. But
I agree with you about the office links part.

Thanks,
Miriam

[Keith Wilby]

Re: DB developing

"Louly" <miro1eg@gmail. com> wrote in message
news:1147338875 .453684.264170@ j73g2000cwa.goo glegroups.com.. .[color=blue]
> Keith,
>
> Thanks a lot for you quick response. I really don't know what to do!
> I used Oracle in my graduation project and I fell in love with it. But
> I agree with you about the office links part.
>
> Thanks,
> Miriam
>[/color]

What line of work are you in? The answer to that question will have a huge
bearing on which route you take.

Keith.

[Lyle Fairfield]

Re: DB developing

IMO the goal of MS for Access is to enable development for and by those
with no brain, no education and no work ethic. If achievement without
effort appeals to you, go for Access, but remember that your
competition for work will be everyone.

If not, find something else. As you are 22, your potential is
unlimited. Starve for a few years. Learn everything about databases.
Read about databases in the bathtub. Sing about databases as you walk.
Write about databases to your parents. Argue about databases with your
friends.

Unless, of course, databases don't interest you; in that case sell Real
Estate.

[Louly]

Re: DB developing

I work for an Intelectual Property Law firm. I'm not planning to work
here for long. I just want to finish this system and leave.

Well Lyle, I'm very much inrterested in Databases, but I still can't
answer the question of "do I want to spend the rest of my life in this
field or not?"

I really appreciate your help!

[BillCo]

Re: DB developing

> IMO the goal of MS for Access is to enable development for and by those
with no brain, no education and no work ethic.

correction - access is often USED BY this kind of person (resulting in
legacy headaches from hell usually). However, it should be acknowledged
that access (in the right hands) is an extremely powerful tool both as
a complete midrange database solution and a front end to more powerful
RDBMSs.

and lyle - speaking of work ethic - you do quite a bit of posting here
(usually good quality too) ...where do you get the time if you are so
busy working to your high ethical standards?

Louly, if you can get into Oracle dev work then do. the money is
faaaaar better and you will be taken a lot more seriously as an IT
professional. But be prepaired to work for banks on 24 call as part of
a large team, half of which is based in india - and with no end-to-end
creative input.

The thing i like about access dev work is that you tend to design the
whole deal, the front end and the back end. it's generally your baby
and you can do what you like with it.

[rkc]

Re: DB developing

Lyle Fairfield wrote:[color=blue]
> IMO the goal of MS for Access is to enable development for and by those
> with no brain, no education and no work ethic. If achievement without
> effort appeals to you, go for Access, but remember that your
> competition for work will be everyone.[/color]

From what I have read that certainly seems to be the major
goal of Access 2007. Wizards up the wazoo. Amazing results
with out the need for a "developer" .

[Lyle Fairfield]

Re: DB developing

BillCo wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
> > IMO the goal of MS for Access is to enable development for and by those[/color]
> with no brain, no education and no work ethic.
>
> correction - access is often USED BY this kind of person (resulting in
> legacy headaches from hell usually). However, it should be acknowledged
> that access (in the right hands) is an extremely powerful tool both as
> a complete midrange database solution and a front end to more powerful
> RDBMSs.[/color]

Over tha past few weeks here in CDMA we have had questions the reading
of which might generate the belief that the poster knows PISS ALL about
databases, computers or the subject of the database. This would not be
surprising and we could just go about the task of gently helping were
it not that often the identification or email designation of this
person indicates that he or she is, or works for a corporation called
Super_Smart_Dat a, or Supreme_Databas e_Solutions and the message text
indicates that this corporation has clients.
[color=blue]
> and lyle - speaking of work ethic - you do quite a bit of posting here
> (usually good quality too) ...where do you get the time if you are so
> busy working to your high ethical standards?[/color]

6:48 am
4:35 pm
9:41 am
10:16 am
6:52 am
5:36 am
7:23 am
6:13 am
2:00 am
8:07 pm

[BillCo]

Re: DB developing

>
6:48 am
4:35 pm
<snip>
8:07 pm

not married then ;)
[color=blue]
> works for a corporation called Super_Smart_Dat a, or Supreme_Databas e_Solutions and the message text indicates that this corporation has clients[/color]

Point well made and probably deserved... but the fact remains that
there is nothing inherently wrong with Access as a low to mid range
database solution. (notice i called it a database solution, not a
database or RDBMS - which technically it isnt).
It's robust, efficient, contains its own UI and programming tools
aswell as the *ahem* jet DB engine. It's great for RAD and prototyping.
In fact for small to mid sized organisations it's significantly the
better option for a lot of needs, especially when coupled with an SQL
back end for a larger user base. Would you build a .net interface to an
Oracle DB for managing stock in a small warehouse, or tracking public
enquiries to a small help desk?

[Tom van Stiphout]

Re: DB developing

On Thu, 11 May 2006 11:17:05 GMT, rkc
<rkc@rochester. yabba.dabba.do. rr.bomb> wrote:

We are already looking forward to an increase in business. More
wizards don't make an amateur a professional. Let more people TRY to
build Access applications. Eventually you'll find a professional
company to "finish the last 5% :-)"

-Tom.

<clip>[color=blue]
> From what I have read that certainly seems to be the major
>goal of Access 2007. Wizards up the wazoo. Amazing results
>with out the need for a "developer" .[/color]

[nettyb40]

Re: DB developing

I agree that a basic Access database can be set up by anyone, but as
someone who has followed behind many such and attempted to
fix/normalize them it can be frustrating. Especially when they say but
now I want this piece of information and they never tracked it or
planned to link it in the first place. It's always your fault they
didn't consider all the options which would have been considered if
they had spoken to someone who could ask the right questions.

I am a middle aged female computer consultant working in Access as well
as doing user support etc. As a female professional that has watched
this industry migrate from Mainframes to PCs to Client Server to net
based clients, I recommend you learn Oracle and/or SQL. There are many
more jobs available in those areas. Your Access experience can be used
for front ends along with .net and other options. Being stuck in
Access is a dead end unless you want to do lots of little independent
contracts.

[Lyle Fairfield]

Re: DB developing

BillCo wrote:
[color=blue]
> Point well made and probably deserved... but the fact remains that
> there is nothing inherently wrong with Access as a low to mid range
> database solution. (notice i called it a database solution, not a
> database or RDBMS - which technically it isnt).
> It's robust, efficient, contains its own UI and programming tools
> aswell as the *ahem* jet DB engine. It's great for RAD and prototyping.
> In fact for small to mid sized organisations it's significantly the
> better option for a lot of needs, especially when coupled with an SQL
> back end for a larger user base.[/color]

I agree.

[Bob Quintal]

Re: DB developing

"Louly" <miro1eg@gmail. com> wrote in
news:1147332123 .315753.113160@ q12g2000cwa.goo glegroups.com:
[color=blue]
> Hi everybody,
>
> I'm a 22 yrs old girl. I've been developing a Database for 6
> months no using Access. A week ago I had this feeling that
> I'm wasting my time in Access. I don't think it's wise to
> keep on working with Access. Instead I think I should consider
> learning and being a certified Oracle proffessional or
> something. What do you guys think?
>
> Thanks for your help.
> Miriam
>[/color]
Where I work, we have several huge applications that are based
on Oracle. When we need to create a custom tool for viewing data
or generating reports, we use Access as a front end to the
Oracle tables. It's perfect as a front end to Oracle.

So continue to work in Access, and learn as much as you can
about Oracle. Then study how to use pass-through queries and
call stored procedures into Oracle from Access.

You then become twice as valuable as a developer.

BTW, I'd give the same advice to a 22 yrs old boy. Or a 55 yrs
old man.

--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

[Larry Linson]

Re: DB developing

"Tom van Stiphout" wrote
[color=blue]
> We are already looking forward to an increase in business. More
> wizards don't make an amateur a professional. Let more people TRY to
> build Access applications. Eventually you'll find a professional
> company to "finish the last 5% :-)"[/color]

Yes, I've gotten those typical recruiter calls: "Have a great opportunity
for you... 95% done; just finish it and create a few reports, about a week
or two."

If you dig deep enough, you'll find the facts:

Requirements: in the head of some user manager, often a ditzy one;
always one with "no spare time for talking about the database again"; or
worse, in a user committee who weren't able to agree sufficiently to write
anything down. Usable % done - 0%.

Design: embodied only in the completed portion of database itself,
if any. Usable % done - 0%.

Implementation: in the head of the last developer who fled screaming
into the night: 50%. in the garbage can: 40%; in the database without a
single comment and with meaningless labels and variable names, and created
without a design: 5% - Usable % done - 0%.

Time to completion: most probable estimate: infinite, because you'll
never be able to extract anything but a vague, hand-waving description from
that ditzy user manager or committee.

Time before you flee screaming into the night like the previous
several developers: depends on your constitution and how gladly you suffer
fools, but you won't even be well-started on getting the Requirements in the
stated one or two weeks. Depending on the nervousness of whoever's holding
the customer purse-strings, you may be unceremoniously dumped for "exceeding
the recruiter's estimate" long before your patience runs out.

Rate the recruiter is willing to pay you: up to $10 - 15 per hour.
I mean, what do you expect for someone with no more experience and no better
credentials than you bring to the table.

Rate the recruiter is charging the customer: $100 - $150 per hour,
or more. I mean, what do they expect for the "Top Access Guy/Gal in this
Area"