Healing

[Lyle Fairfield]

Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?

Can we find positive things about Steve and emphasize them?
I can think of two
1. He can explain things very clearly;
2. He is knowledgeable about the UI and the various commands of
toolbars and menus etc of Access.
In these two areas he is better than I am.
Can you think of others?

Can we stop denigrating him? Can we forget the past slights we attribute
to him? Can we encourage him when he contributes?

Suppose that he makes his living from work that he picks up through his
newsgroup advertising. Can he stop this advertising and starve? Can we
suggest solutions for this basic problem? If he stops advertising and
stops getting work through that advertising then what?

Can we demonstrate how we would like Steve to behave with our own behaviour?

Do we want him to feel happy and valued?

Can we try?

--
Lyle Fairfield

[Br@dley]

Re: Healing

Lyle Fairfield wrote:[color=blue]
> Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?
>
> Can we find positive things about Steve and emphasize them?
> I can think of two
> 1. He can explain things very clearly;
> 2. He is knowledgeable about the UI and the various commands of
> toolbars and menus etc of Access.
> In these two areas he is better than I am.
> Can you think of others?
>
> Can we stop denigrating him? Can we forget the past slights we
> attribute to him? Can we encourage him when he contributes?
>
> Suppose that he makes his living from work that he picks up through
> his newsgroup advertising. Can he stop this advertising and starve?
> Can we suggest solutions for this basic problem? If he stops
> advertising and stops getting work through that advertising then what?
>
> Can we demonstrate how we would like Steve to behave with our own
> behaviour?
> Do we want him to feel happy and valued?
>
> Can we try?[/color]

Thanks for trying to be positive. Let's all move on eh?
--
regards,

Bradley

A Christian Response

http://www.pastornet.net.au/response

[Stephen Lebans]

Re: Healing

Very well stated Lyle.
:-)

---
Stephen Lebans

http://www.lebans.com

Access Code, Tips and Tricks
Please respond only to the newsgroups so everyone can benefit.


"Lyle Fairfield" <lylefairfield@ aim.com> wrote in message
news:2Bonf.6823 $eo.4895@read1. cgocable.net...[color=blue]
> Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?
>
> Can we find positive things about Steve and emphasize them?
> I can think of two
> 1. He can explain things very clearly;
> 2. He is knowledgeable about the UI and the various commands of toolbars
> and menus etc of Access.
> In these two areas he is better than I am.
> Can you think of others?
>
> Can we stop denigrating him? Can we forget the past slights we attribute
> to him? Can we encourage him when he contributes?
>
> Suppose that he makes his living from work that he picks up through his
> newsgroup advertising. Can he stop this advertising and starve? Can we
> suggest solutions for this basic problem? If he stops advertising and
> stops getting work through that advertising then what?
>
> Can we demonstrate how we would like Steve to behave with our own
> behaviour?
>
> Do we want him to feel happy and valued?
>
> Can we try?
>
> --
> Lyle Fairfield[/color]

[Larry Linson]

Re: Healing

"David W. Fenton" <dXXXfenton@bwa y.net.invalid> wrote
[color=blue]
> It's good business, so why shouldn't it be good newsgroup politics?[/color]

David and Lyle, Good luck creating a beneficial relationship with Steve.

As for me, I tend just not to do business with people who blatantly
disregard the rules of the game -- particularly if they continue to
demonstrate that they have not changed one whit, or that they have gotten
worse over time, and Steve has certainly demonstrated that.

No, I can't make him stop. Yes, I can politely complain to his newsserver,
and I will continue to do so if he continues to advertise in this newsgroup.
I believe Earthlink's Acceptable Use Policies were recently quoted.

Larry

[Arno R]

Re: Healing


"Lyle Fairfield" <lylefairfield@ aim.com> schreef in bericht news:2Bonf.6823 $eo.4895@read1. cgocable.net...
[color=blue]
> Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?[/color]
[color=blue]
>Can we find positive things about Steve and emphasize them?[/color]

I am not going to tell anything nice here about PC because at the moment I just can't think of anything...
-- He demonstrated a total lack of decency more than often.
-- He does not give a sh** about what other people say in these groups.
-- He falsely accused me and others more than often. (and I am talking of very lame accusations here...)
(I will stop now but the list is very long ...)

So I would think of it as *very hypocritical* to say nice things about Steve now.
So, this time I am not with you Lyle. Sorry for that.

It is very simple and a lot of us have told him before:
==> Steve could just start behaving like everyone else here.
==> It's simple. It's not complicated. It's not difficult.

So I will stop this game immediately as soon as Steve stops job hunting and changes his sig back to the four-line-sig he used before.
If Steve makes *any statement here* that he will stop abusing the groups I will even remove the website.
I don't even demand excuses or whatever from this guy. Isn't that nice??

==>My only goal here is to stop him advertising/job hunting.
==>My only goal here is to show that we can (yes David we can ...) stop Steve.
And ...we are doing very good at the moment!

Btw:
Not me, nor my so-called goons are responsible for the latest humiliating and denigrating thread.
As Duane said: Steve is his own worst enemy.

The best thing Steve can do in my opinion is to take a break.
He could stay away for a few days or so to calm down.
He could come back 'normally' and all this misery can be forgotten soon.

Arno R

[David W. Fenton]

Re: Healing

"Larry Linson" <bouncer@localh ost.not> wrote in
news:Ayrnf.2013 3$7r6.10105@trn ddc07:
[color=blue]
> "Lyle Fairfield" <lylefairfield@ aim.com> wrote
>[color=green]
> > Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?[/color]
>
> I'm sure we _could_. As David has repeatedly advised us, we could
> just ignore his advertising and his violation of the basics of
> USENET behavior and of the charter of the newsgroup. . . .\[/color]

One reason to do this is that he has been soliciting like this for
a very long time but the slippery slope problem has failed to
materialize. That seems to indicate that the problem remains
localized with him, perhaps because anyone that might have been
tempted by his example has seen the reprobation he's garnered.
Steve is stubborn and won't change, but I doubt that's going to
cause the newsgroup to be overrun with spam.

[]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Can we try?[/color]
>
> If you mean, should we just let him get away with violating
> USENET rules and the charter, charging people for solutions that
> he got by posting under psuedonyms without any consequences, and
> throwing public tantrums when he's pointed out for those
> transgressions, then I guess my question would be "Why should we
> favor him so?"[/color]

Is there one goddamned thing you can do to stop him?

So far, all the efforts in that direction have beem more of the "we
had to destroy the village to save it" variety. I don't appreciate
that, especially when I wasn't bothered by the offense in the first
place.
[color=blue]
> What you said may have been "well said" as Stephen put it, but I
> don't think it stands the test of Steve's history here.[/color]

I think Lyle'ls point is that maybe it's time to let go of history
and try to move forward on a positive note. I have found in
business situations that you can poison a relationship by dwelling
on what went wrong in the past, but can kindle anew a good
relationship simply by focussing on what can be accomplished by
dwelling on positive steps for the future.

It's good business, so why shouldn't it be good newsgroup politics?

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

[Arno R]

Re: Healing


"David W. Fenton" <dXXXfenton@bwa y.net.invalid> schreef in bericht news:Xns972B481 289A0dfentonbwa ynetinvali@24.2 9.109.198...
[color=blue]
> Is there one goddamned thing you can do to stop him?[/color]

Yep,
A simple link to the website dedicated to Steve following *all* his advertising posts.
Nothing more is needed. He is already in panic now.

Won't mention the site here. trying to be nice ...

Arno R

[Larry Linson]

Re: Healing

"Lyle Fairfield" <lylefairfield@ aim.com> wrote
[color=blue]
> Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?[/color]

I'm sure we _could_. As David has repeatedly advised us, we could just
ignore his advertising and his violation of the basics of USENET behavior
and of the charter of the newsgroup. That might encourage him... you might
see a quarter screen of answers, or none, and several screens of
unverifiable advertising claims.

Have you tried polite complaints to his news server and ISP? (That's
prescribed for someone who habitually violates the rules, but it's not
always effective.)
[color=blue]
> Can we find positive things about Steve and emphasize them?
> I can think of two
> 1. He can explain things very clearly;
> 2. He is knowledgeable about the UI and the various commands of
> toolbars and menus etc of Access.
> In these two areas he is better than I am.
> Can you think of others?[/color]

I don't know, Lyle. It is really difficult to tell whether he is
knowledgeable in particular areas or just quoting without attribution.
[color=blue]
> Can we stop denigrating him? Can we forget the past slights we attribute
> to him? Can we encourage him when he contributes?[/color]

When he was contributing with a SIG that only modestly exceeded USENET
norms, I did encourage him, and so did some others, I believe. Then,
contributing apparently got to be too much work for him, and we saw more
responses that were just "contact me for cheap work". When that drew fire,
he went to a more-than-SIG that's more advertising SIG than help, by far
now.
[color=blue]
> Suppose that he makes his living from work that he picks up through his
> newsgroup advertising. Can he stop this advertising and starve? Can we
> suggest solutions for this basic problem? If he stops advertising and
> stops getting work through that advertising then what?[/color]

I would surmise that he was making a living before he jumped into the
newsgroup telling us how he was going to refuse to pay someone he hired who
gave him an estimate and exceeded it by a matter of a couple of hours? That
got him "started off on the wrong foot" with a lot of people here. And, he's
repeatedly demonstrated that he really doesn't much give a big rip for
playing by the rules, even when the rules are crystal clear. Accepted RFCs
and charters and the like are for others to abide by and for Steve to
ignore, it seems.
[color=blue]
> Can we demonstrate how we would like Steve to behave with our own
> behaviour?[/color]

I've demonstrated to Steve how not to advertise, ever since he's been in the
newsgroup. At one time I had two websites listed in my SIG, and nothing for
sale on either one.
[color=blue]
> Do we want him to feel happy and valued?[/color]

Do you remember what Rhett said to Scarlett?
[color=blue]
> Can we try?[/color]

If you mean, should we just let him get away with violating USENET rules and
the charter, charging people for solutions that he got by posting under
psuedonyms without any consequences, and throwing public tantrums when he's
pointed out for those transgressions, then I guess my question would be "Why
should we favor him so?"

What you said may have been "well said" as Stephen put it, but I don't think
it stands the test of Steve's history here.

Larry

Larry

[PC Datasheet]

Re: Healing

For all who read this -------------

Larry Linson is nothing but a hypocrite!!

A couple of years ago when he was down and out, he asked me if I would
subcontract to him some of the work I was doing for people from the
newsgroups who came to me asking for help. It was okay then when he was out
of work. Now he is condemning that I am still providing help in the same
way.

XMVP - you were 100% right about Linson!!


--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
Over 1050 users have come from the newsgroups trusting me and requesting
help.
resource@pcdata sheet.com



"Lyle Fairfield" <lylefairfield@ aim.com> wrote in message
news:2Bonf.6823 $eo.4895@read1. cgocable.net...[color=blue]
> Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?
>
> Can we find positive things about Steve and emphasize them?
> I can think of two
> 1. He can explain things very clearly;
> 2. He is knowledgeable about the UI and the various commands of toolbars
> and menus etc of Access.
> In these two areas he is better than I am.
> Can you think of others?
>
> Can we stop denigrating him? Can we forget the past slights we attribute
> to him? Can we encourage him when he contributes?
>
> Suppose that he makes his living from work that he picks up through his
> newsgroup advertising. Can he stop this advertising and starve? Can we
> suggest solutions for this basic problem? If he stops advertising and
> stops getting work through that advertising then what?
>
> Can we demonstrate how we would like Steve to behave with our own
> behaviour?
>
> Do we want him to feel happy and valued?
>
> Can we try?
>
> --
> Lyle Fairfield[/color]

[John Marshall, MVP]

Re: Healing

Larry tries to calm the waters for you and this is how you thank him? You're
a class act steve.

John... Visio MVP


"PC Datasheet" <nospam@nospam. spam> wrote in message
news:erDnf.3766 $nm.713@newsrea d2.news.atl.ear thlink.net...[color=blue]
> For all who read this -------------
>
> Larry Linson is nothing but a hypocrite!!
>
> A couple of years ago when he was down and out, he asked me if I would
> subcontract to him some of the work I was doing for people from the
> newsgroups who came to me asking for help. It was okay then when he was
> out of work. Now he is condemning that I am still providing help in the
> same way.
>
> PC Datasheet
>
> "Lyle Fairfield" <lylefairfield@ aim.com> wrote in message
> news:2Bonf.6823 $eo.4895@read1. cgocable.net...[color=green]
>> Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?
>>
>> Can we find positive things about Steve and emphasize them?
>> I can think of two
>> 1. He can explain things very clearly;
>> 2. He is knowledgeable about the UI and the various commands of toolbars[/color][/color]

[Danny J. Lesandrini]

Re: Healing

Hmmm. I believe that was me. I've refrained from contributing to this
thread because I didn't want my bias to show through, but, apparently,
I had missed the historic post, where Steve complained about "someone
he hired." In retrospect, I think he was speaking about me!

I answered one of Steve's posts and _gave_ him some ASP code for a
project he was working on. When he asked me to modify it, I offered
to do so at my lowest rate, $50 per hour, on a fixed bid. This turned out
to be a bad idea, as Steve was of the opinion that I could make an ASP
web app behave like a Windows form. As he expanded the scope of his
requirements, the hours increased, and so did my bill.

I finally washed my hands of him and told him to keep the app and throw
away the bill (a whapping $700). I took the loss in favor of the alternative,
which was to spend endless hours tweaking HTML until labels lined up
and edit counter-intuitive warning messages for ill-designed user processes
which approximated _his_ idea of acceptable user feedback.

My experience with Steve reinforces my belief that he is an amateur. I
would not recommend anyone seek out his services. While I greatly respect
Lyle and his initiative to heal the wound, the below mentioned, here-to-fore
unnoticed jab at my generosity has roasted up my potatoes (despite my
Italian surname, I'm an Irishman from way back).
--

Danny J. Lesandrini
dlesandrini@hot mail.com

http://amazecreations.com/datafast

[color=blue]
>
> I would surmise that he was making a living before he jumped into the newsgroup telling us how he was going to refuse
> to pay someone he hired who gave him an estimate and exceeded it by a matter of a couple of hours? That got him
> "started off on the wrong foot" with a lot of people here.[/color]

[Thelma Lubkin]

Re: Healing

John Marshall, MVP <lancucki@stone henge.ca> wrote:
: Larry tries to calm the waters for you and this is how you thank him? You're
: a class act steve.

He complains about Larry Linson who doesn't seem ready to
retreat. The 'calm the waters' quote that follows is from
Lyle Fairfield.
--thelma
just an observer

: John... Visio MVP


: "PC Datasheet" <nospam@nospam. spam> wrote in message
: news:erDnf.3766 $nm.713@newsrea d2.news.atl.ear thlink.net...
:> For all who read this -------------
:>
:> Larry Linson is nothing but a hypocrite!!
<snip>
:> "Lyle Fairfield" <lylefairfield@ aim.com> wrote in message
:> news:2Bonf.6823 $eo.4895@read1. cgocable.net...
:>> Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?
:>>
:>> Can we find positive things about Steve and emphasize them?
<snip>

[Lyle Fairfield]

Re: Healing

Arno

I think
Steve CAN'T withdraw. His world, his mind, his soul; these things will
not permit him to withdraw.

I think you are intelligent,civ ilized, brave and honest. And I think
you CAN withdraw.

[David W. Fenton]

Re: Healing

"Larry Linson" <bouncer@localh ost.not> wrote in
news:vswnf.1578 0$OK6.13754@trn ddc03:
[color=blue]
> "David W. Fenton" <dXXXfenton@bwa y.net.invalid> wrote
>[color=green]
> > It's good business, so why shouldn't it be good newsgroup
> > politics?[/color]
>
> David and Lyle, Good luck creating a beneficial relationship with
> Steve.[/color]

He's in my killfile, so I'm not making any such effort.

However, I'm also not whingeing about him, either, which to me is
more of a problem for the newsgroup now than his original offense.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

[Gary B via AccessMonster.com]

Re: Healing

Can I just bung in my twopenny worth, as a (very)semi-pro and a relative
newcomer to this (and other) Access newsgroups?

I came across PC Datasheet on more than a few occasions whilst looking for
answers to my (many) questions. It soon became apparent that, beyond his
desire for business (which I'm guessing we all have), he has very little to
contribute to the group. For that reason I quickly consigned him to the same
category as the spam in my inbox, the junk mail through my letterbox and the
b****y traffic on the M25, ie, it's incredibly irritating, intensely
frustrating, but there doesn't seem an awful lot I can do about it, so I
delete/bin/ignore it.

Whenever I see a reply from PC Datasheet I simply don't read it. Not because
I think he is evil or anything so daft, but simply because my experience has
been that it isn't worth my time.

I appreciate that he is breaking the rules and in some cases cluttering up
our screens, which must be intensely frustrating if you've just spent your
time trying to help someone,but if he didn't get business from it then surely
he wouldn't do it. Assuming that it's feasible, maybe there is something to
be said for educating the users of the newsgroups on the negative aspects of
encouraging him by using his services? There are certainly many so-called
experts who recommend the same strategy for dealing with spam, junk mail and
traffic.

For my own part, if I was desperate enough to want to pay for help, I would
go to the people who have proven their worth by giving their time and
expertise freely and unconditionally .

Merry Christmas to you all and thanks for your time.

--
Message posted via AccessMonster.c om

http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/databases-ms-access/200512/1