Decompiling, is this a problem?

[Grant]

I've seen a couple of articles on the internet that VB.NET applications
can be decompiled very easy. For those who have had experience with
this, is it true? What steps can be taken to avoid this? I am using
VB.NET Express but am willing to buy something (within reason) to
prevent easy decompiling. Any suggestions are much appreciated.

[AGP]

Re: Decompiling, is this a problem?


"Grant" <grantroelofs@g mail.comwrote in message
news:3GTwk.4559 0$G23.18352@new sreading01.news .tds.net...

I've seen a couple of articles on the internet that VB.NET applications
can be decompiled very easy. For those who have had experience with this,
is it true? What steps can be taken to avoid this? I am using VB.NET
Express but am willing to buy something (within reason) to prevent easy
decompiling. Any suggestions are much appreciated.

download the free Reflector from http://www.red-gate.com/products/reflector/
and see how easy it is to see your source. VS2005 comes with a version of
Dotfuscator (reach it from the Tools menu) that will do some obfuscation.
ive had moderate success with it. you should probably look for a commercial
aplication that will obfuscate your source.

AGP

[Cor Ligthert[MVP]]

Re: Decompiling, is this a problem?

Second attempt

Grant,
>

>I've seen a couple of articles on the internet that VB.NET applications
>can be decompiled very easy. For those who have had experience with
>this, is it true? What steps can be taken to avoid this? I am using
>VB.NET Express but am willing to buy something (within reason) to prevent
>easy decompiling. Any suggestions are much appreciated.

>
And then? It is easier to create a program with VB.Net then to decompile
it and to try to make another program from it.
Those who are not able to do the first, are for sure not able to do the
second.
>
As it is about security, then think that is it possible to decompile every
program, it is just how smart you are.
Use for security the security options or find more ways to do that outside
the code.
>
Just my opinion.
>
Cor

"Grant" <grantroelofs@g mail.comschreef in bericht
news:3GTwk.4559 0$G23.18352@new sreading01.news .tds.net...

I've seen a couple of articles on the internet that VB.NET applications
can be decompiled very easy. For those who have had experience with this,
is it true? What steps can be taken to avoid this? I am using VB.NET
Express but am willing to buy something (within reason) to prevent easy
decompiling. Any suggestions are much appreciated.

[Michel Posseth [MCP]]

Re: Decompiling, is this a problem?

>I've seen a couple of articles on the internet that VB.NET applications
>can be decompiled very easy

Please note that the same is true for all .Net languages ( VB.Net , C# ,
J# , Delphi.Net etc etc etc )
and also for Java

>>For those who have had experience with this, is it true?

Yes ....

>>I am using VB.NET Express but am willing to buy something (within reason)
>>to prevent easy decompiling. Any suggestions are much appreciated.

There are lots of obfuscating tools out there , however none of them can
give 100% guarantee
that it is really impossible to reverse engineer your app .

hth
Michel




"AGP" <sindizzy.pak@s ofthome.netschr eef in bericht
news:oMUwk.2058 4$cW3.15906@nlp i064.nbdc.sbc.c om...

>
"Grant" <grantroelofs@g mail.comwrote in message
news:3GTwk.4559 0$G23.18352@new sreading01.news .tds.net...

>I've seen a couple of articles on the internet that VB.NET applications
>can be decompiled very easy. For those who have had experience with
>this, is it true? What steps can be taken to avoid this? I am using
>VB.NET Express but am willing to buy something (within reason) to prevent
>easy decompiling. Any suggestions are much appreciated.

>
download the free Reflector from
http://www.red-gate.com/products/reflector/ and see how easy it is to see
your source. VS2005 comes with a version of Dotfuscator (reach it from the
Tools menu) that will do some obfuscation. ive had moderate success with
it. you should probably look for a commercial aplication that will
obfuscate your source.
>
AGP
>

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Re: Decompiling, is this a problem?

"Grant" <grantroelofs@g mail.comschrieb :

I've seen a couple of articles on the internet that VB.NET applications
can be decompiled very easy. For those who have had experience with
this, is it true? What steps can be taken to avoid this? I am using
VB.NET Express but am willing to buy something (within reason) to
prevent easy decompiling.

There are three solutions:

* Obfuscation
* Encryption
* Services


Microsoft's solution:


SLP Services Home
<URL:http://www.microsoft.c om/slps/Default.aspx>


You can use obfuscation (VS comes with a cut down version of a commecial
obfuscator) to make reverse engineering harder.


However, this is not a perfect solution. The only 100 % solution is to
place the code on a server you own and expose the functionality via a
service (Web service).

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/>

[rowe_newsgroups]

Re: Decompiling, is this a problem?

On Sep 7, 12:53 pm, Grant <grantroel...@g mail.comwrote:

I've seen a couple of articles on the internet that VB.NET applications
can be decompiled very easy.  For those who have had experience with
this, is it true?  What steps can be taken to avoid this?  I am using
VB.NET Express but am willing to buy something (within reason) to
prevent easy decompiling.  Any suggestions are much appreciated.

You have to ask yourself if you're actually writing anything that has
a risk of being disassembled and "stolen". If you're not, then you
have reason to muddy your development waters with obfuscation. Also
evaluate the business value, are you going to get a good ROI for the
additional work? Is your user base really interested in disassembling
your code?

Personally, I'd be willing to give my code to anyone that uses the
application, the more eyes on my code the more bugs will be found.

Thanks,

Seth Rowe [MVP]

http://sethrowe.blogspot.com/

[AGP]

Re: Decompiling, is this a problem?


"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-here@gmx.atwrot e in message
news:%235CBj9aE JHA.5448@TK2MSF TNGP04.phx.gbl. ..

"Grant" <grantroelofs@g mail.comschrieb :

>I've seen a couple of articles on the internet that VB.NET applications
>can be decompiled very easy. For those who have had experience with
>this, is it true? What steps can be taken to avoid this? I am using
>VB.NET Express but am willing to buy something (within reason) to prevent
>easy decompiling.

>
There are three solutions:
* Obfuscation * Encryption * Services
>
Microsoft's solution:
>
SLP Services Home <URL:http://www.microsoft.c om/slps/Default.aspx>
>
You can use obfuscation (VS comes with a cut down version of a commecial
obfuscator) to make reverse engineering harder.
>
However, this is not a perfect solution. The only 100 % solution is to
place the code on a server you own and expose the functionality via a
service (Web service).
>

im glad that MS has a solution but IMHO that should have been built into VS.
It seems thats just another way to suck money out of the developer. I just
transitioned to .NET after some years of reluctance and am now finding out
that the source is easily decompiled from my app. i've read some articles on
why this is so easy and i understand but MS should have included something
more than the dotfustactor. Ive tried it and it doesnt seem to work. their
website is poorly arranged and they have yet to answer my inquiries. as a
small devloper my options are limited as I cant go out and spend thousnds of
dollars for better protection, yet i have to release updates in a timely
manner. anyway, im looking for a good solution that is reasonable for a
small developer. anyone have any suggestions?

AGP

[rowe_newsgroups]

Re: Decompiling, is this a problem?

On Sep 9, 8:32 pm, "AGP" <sindizzy....@s ofthome.netwrot e:

"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-h...@gmx.atwrot e in messagenews:%23 5CBj9aEJHA.5448 @TK2MSFTNGP04.p hx.gbl...
>
>
>

"Grant" <grantroel...@g mail.comschrieb :

I've seen a couple of articles on the internet that VB.NET applications
can be decompiled very easy.  For those who have had experience with
this, is it true?  What steps can be taken to avoid this?  I am using
VB.NET Express but am willing to buy something (within reason) to prevent
easy decompiling.

>

There are three solutions:
* Obfuscation * Encryption * Services

>

Microsoft's solution:

>

SLP Services Home <URL:http://www.microsoft.c om/slps/Default.aspx>

>

You can use obfuscation (VS comes with a cut down version of a commecial
obfuscator) to make reverse engineering harder.

>

However, this is not a perfect solution.  The only 100 % solution is to
place the code on a server you own and expose the functionality via a
service (Web service).

>
im glad that MS has a solution but IMHO that should have been built into VS.
It seems thats just another way to suck money out of the developer. I just
transitioned to .NET after some years of reluctance and am now finding out
that the source is easily decompiled from my app. i've read some articleson
why this is so easy and i understand but MS should have included something
more than the dotfustactor. Ive tried it and it doesnt seem to work. their
website is poorly arranged and they have yet to answer my inquiries. as a
small devloper my options are limited as I cant go out and spend thousndsof
dollars for better protection, yet i have to release updates in a timely
manner. anyway, im looking for a good solution that is reasonable for a
small developer. anyone have any suggestions?
>
AGP

I still stick to my above statements.

What are you writing that's so important that no unauthorized people
can see the code?

Thanks,

Seth Rowe [MVP]

http://sethrowe.blogspot.com/

[Cor Ligthert[MVP]]

Re: Decompiling, is this a problem?

AGP,

Then make it yourself, nobody forbids you to do that. (As long as you are
not using illegal others inteligence).

Cor

"AGP" <sindizzy.pak@s ofthome.netschr eef in bericht
news:wAExk.1962 5$LG4.11954@nlp i065.nbdc.sbc.c om...

>
"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-here@gmx.atwrot e in message
news:%235CBj9aE JHA.5448@TK2MSF TNGP04.phx.gbl. ..

>"Grant" <grantroelofs@g mail.comschrieb :

>>I've seen a couple of articles on the internet that VB.NET applications
>>can be decompiled very easy. For those who have had experience with
>>this, is it true? What steps can be taken to avoid this? I am using
>>VB.NET Express but am willing to buy something (within reason) to
>>prevent easy decompiling.

>>
>There are three solutions:
>* Obfuscation * Encryption * Services
>>
>Microsoft's solution:
>>
>SLP Services Home <URL:http://www.microsoft.c om/slps/Default.aspx>
>>
>You can use obfuscation (VS comes with a cut down version of a commecial
>obfuscator) to make reverse engineering harder.
>>
>However, this is not a perfect solution. The only 100 % solution is to
>place the code on a server you own and expose the functionality via a
>service (Web service).
>>

>
im glad that MS has a solution but IMHO that should have been built into
VS. It seems thats just another way to suck money out of the developer. I
just transitioned to .NET after some years of reluctance and am now
finding out that the source is easily decompiled from my app. i've read
some articles on why this is so easy and i understand but MS should have
included something more than the dotfustactor. Ive tried it and it doesnt
seem to work. their website is poorly arranged and they have yet to answer
my inquiries. as a small devloper my options are limited as I cant go out
and spend thousnds of dollars for better protection, yet i have to release
updates in a timely manner. anyway, im looking for a good solution that is
reasonable for a small developer. anyone have any suggestions?
>
AGP
>

[AGP]

Re: Decompiling, is this a problem?

>
im glad that MS has a solution but IMHO that should have been built into
VS.
It seems thats just another way to suck money out of the developer. I just
transitioned to .NET after some years of reluctance and am now finding out
that the source is easily decompiled from my app. i've read some articles
on
why this is so easy and i understand but MS should have included something
more than the dotfustactor. Ive tried it and it doesnt seem to work. their
website is poorly arranged and they have yet to answer my inquiries. as a
small devloper my options are limited as I cant go out and spend thousnds
of
dollars for better protection, yet i have to release updates in a timely
manner. anyway, im looking for a good solution that is reasonable for a
small developer. anyone have any suggestions?
>
AGP

I still stick to my above statements.

What are you writing that's so important that no unauthorized people
can see the code?

Thanks,

Seth Rowe [MVP]

http://sethrowe.blogspot.com/

>>>

I guess what is in my code is not really releveant. some of it is
proprietary algorithms and other stuff is common. just like any other
developer that makes commercial apps i dont want competing devlopers from
just decompiling and using code that i have worked long and hard to perfect.
if you are willing to open source your code then that is great and i have no
problems with that. but i dont want my code to be out in the open for
everyone to see. its just that simple. if the case was that every piece of
code should be seen then there wouldnt be a need for obfustcators and
encryption services like the one that MS is offering.

AGP

[AGP]

Re: Decompiling, is this a problem?


"Cor Ligthert[MVP]" <notmyfirstname @planet.nlwrote in message
news:91B5816B-CC5E-49F0-8390-8768BBAB7996@mi crosoft.com...

AGP,
>
Then make it yourself, nobody forbids you to do that. (As long as you are
not using illegal others inteligence).
>
Cor
>

make what? an obfuscator? im not saying that i want to make one i just want
to know what options are out there.

AGp

[Grant]

Re: Decompiling, is this a problem?

rowe_newsgroups wrote:

On Sep 9, 8:32 pm, "AGP" <sindizzy....@s ofthome.netwrot e:

>"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-h...@gmx.atwrot e in messagenews:%23 5CBj9aEJHA.5448 @TK2MSFTNGP04.p hx.gbl...
>>
>>
>>

>>"Grant" <grantroel...@g mail.comschrieb :
>>>I've seen a couple of articles on the internet that VB.NET applications
>>>can be decompiled very easy. For those who have had experience with
>>>this, is it true? What steps can be taken to avoid this? I am using
>>>VB.NET Express but am willing to buy something (within reason) to prevent
>>>easy decompiling.
>>There are three solutions:
>>* Obfuscation * Encryption * Services
>>Microsoft's solution:
>>SLP Services Home <URL:http://www.microsoft.c om/slps/Default.aspx>
>>You can use obfuscation (VS comes with a cut down version of a commecial
>>obfuscator) to make reverse engineering harder.
>>However, this is not a perfect solution. The only 100 % solution is to
>>place the code on a server you own and expose the functionality via a
>>service (Web service).

>im glad that MS has a solution but IMHO that should have been built into VS.
>It seems thats just another way to suck money out of the developer. I just
>transitioned to .NET after some years of reluctance and am now finding out
>that the source is easily decompiled from my app. i've read some articles on
>why this is so easy and i understand but MS should have included something
>more than the dotfustactor. Ive tried it and it doesnt seem to work. their
>website is poorly arranged and they have yet to answer my inquiries. as a
>small devloper my options are limited as I cant go out and spend thousnds of
>dollars for better protection, yet i have to release updates in a timely
>manner. anyway, im looking for a good solution that is reasonable for a
>small developer. anyone have any suggestions?
>>
>AGP

>
I still stick to my above statements.
>
What are you writing that's so important that no unauthorized people
can see the code?
>
Thanks,
>
Seth Rowe [MVP]
http://sethrowe.blogspot.com/

My has a key stored as a string variable for encryption which I want
hidden. Don't care too much about the rest. Any better ways to hide this?

[Michel Posseth [MCP]]

Re: Decompiling, is this a problem?

make what? an obfuscator? im not saying that i want to make one i just

want to know what options are out there.

VB6 ofcourse compiled with optimizations in Native code cause VB6 apps
compiled in P-Code can also be decompiled to some level :-)
ofcourse above is a joke

To get you started :
This is a nice and cheap obfuscator

http://desaware.com/products/books/net/obfuscating/index.aspx

HTH

Michel











"AGP" <sindizzy.pak@s ofthome.netschr eef in bericht
news:8fFyk.145$ W06.82@flpi148. ffdc.sbc.com...

>
"Cor Ligthert[MVP]" <notmyfirstname @planet.nlwrote in message
news:91B5816B-CC5E-49F0-8390-8768BBAB7996@mi crosoft.com...

>AGP,
>>
>Then make it yourself, nobody forbids you to do that. (As long as you are
>not using illegal others inteligence).
>>
>Cor
>>

>
make what? an obfuscator? im not saying that i want to make one i just
want to know what options are out there.
>
AGp
>
>

[rowe_newsgroups]

Re: Decompiling, is this a problem?

On Sep 12, 10:06 pm, "AGP" <sindizzy....@s ofthome.netwrot e:

im glad that MS has a solution but IMHO that should have been built into
VS.
It seems thats just another way to suck money out of the developer. I just
transitioned to .NET after some years of reluctance and am now finding out
that the source is easily decompiled from my app. i've read some articles
on
why this is so easy and i understand but MS should have included something
more than the dotfustactor. Ive tried it and it doesnt seem to work. their
website is poorly arranged and they have yet to answer my inquiries. asa
small devloper my options are limited as I cant go out and spend thousnds
of
dollars for better protection, yet i have to release updates in a timely
manner. anyway, im looking for a good solution that is reasonable for a
small developer. anyone have any suggestions?

>

AGP

>
I still stick to my above statements.
>
What are you writing that's so important that no unauthorized people
can see the code?
>
Thanks,
>
Seth Rowe [MVP]http://sethrowe.blogsp ot.com/
>
>
>
I guess what is in my code is not really releveant. some of it is
proprietary algorithms and other stuff is common. just like any other
developer that makes commercial apps i dont want competing devlopers from
just decompiling and using code that i have worked long and hard to perfect.
if you are willing to open source your code then that is great and i haveno
problems with that. but i dont want my code to be out in the open for
everyone to see. its just that simple. if the case was that every piece of
code should be seen then there wouldnt be a need for obfustcators and
encryption services like the one that MS is offering.
>
AGP

Granted if you are using proprietary algorithms I can understand why
you would want to protect them, but in my experience I rarely see
something so special that another skilled developer couldn't simple
write it again. In my opinion, your competitor would be silly to just
disassemble and try to pass the code off as there own, especially
since products like Reflector aren't perfect and a lack on unit tests
(surely you are using unit tests right?) would put them in an
extremely dangerous situation.

Also, please understand I didn't say you should open source your
applications, I merely said I wouldn't worry about disassembly. Open
source is a massive commitment, and it doesn't make good business
sense for many businesses to implement.

Thanks,

Seth Rowe [MVP]

http://sethrowe.blogspot.com/

[rowe_newsgroups]

Re: Decompiling, is this a problem?

My has a key stored as a string variable for encryption which I want

hidden.  Don't care too much about the rest.  Any better ways to hidethis?

Very, very, very, very dangerous. Even in "classic" vb, I used to open
up executables in notepad and pull out any string constructs. This is
basically "security by obscurity" and you are opening up yourself for
disaster if this encryption key is protecting something very valuable.
Unfortunately, without doing a full review of your application it'd be
hard to recommend a good alternative, but I recommend you do a system
review.

Thanks,

Seth Rowe [MVP]

http://sethrowe.blogspot.com/