Is VB Caca??

[Scott M.]

Re: Is VB Caca??

But it is.

No, it's not. In VB.NET, as soon as you move your cursor off the current
line, the dynamic compilation feature of the language/VS.NET will check the
code on that line for syntax and compile errors and you will get the
infamous "blue wavy underline" right away.

In C#, you must build your code to get the same syntax checking. C# is not
dynamically compiled like VB.NET is.

It's too bad, because it's really the main reason I haven't move to more
development in C# yet.

[Tony K]

Re: Is VB Caca??

Wow!!

"Tom Leylan" <tleylan@nospam .netwrote in message
news:uGP8q4OaHH A.808@TK2MSFTNG P04.phx.gbl...

"RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam. yah.nonewrote..

>Why do you hang out here if you don't like VB?

>
Hi Robin: I realize your question was directed to Göran but I thought I'd
take a stab at it since you seem like a reasonable person.
Notwithstanding your attempts in microsoft.publi c.dotnet.genera l to get
people to stop posting questions about why their modem won't dial and such
:-)
>
Let me start with an example. Somebody asks "what do you think of Los
Angeles" and someone replies "the smog is pretty bad". The reply to that
guy shouldn't be "if you hate it so much why do you live in the United
States?" Why? Because LA is in fact smoggy. There are valid reasons for
living there anyway but that doesn't change the fact that it has a smog
problem.
>
VB syntax is quirky in a number of ways due to it's roots. They may not
seem quirky to a person who has only developed in VB but they are if you
step back and compare it to other languages in an unbiased manner. That
isn't easy, people have preferences and they tend to be passionate about
them. So (again as an example) no matter how stupid the design of .MEM
files was in dBASE II and dBASE III, people who used them called everybody
who pointed that out "a mindless idiot." Is the Python language's indent
sensitivity a good thing or a bad thing?
>
You've no doubt read a few of the threads here where the topic is LEN() or
UCASE(). If a person (let's say me) suggests the syntax is dated (and
goes out on a limb and suggests it was only retained to placate the VB6
folk) that doesn't translate into "VB.Net is stupid". It could even be
interpreted as "you'd get more respect (if C# is considered as a language
that gets more respect) if the things that made it seem like a "toy
language" (those aren't my words) were eliminated."
>
Everything in life doesn't have to come down to a language war. One can
like Java fundamentally yet program in VB.Net for economic reasons and
should be able to point out "that's odd" without being asked to leave a
public newsgroup. The alternative to rational discussion is embodied in
"the cult of VB6 developer" where everybody must chant the same thing or
be branded a heretic. People have attempted to pull that nonsense here
but I believe the days of yelling "he's a witch" and having that work have
(thankfully) passed.
>
If I talk to a SmallTalk developer (and I have) and they proclaim there is
no better language on the face of the planet I tend to doubt them.
Perhaps there isn't for the type of software they write but by definition
this can't be the universal case. If there was no language betterin every
case there would be no other languages.
>
Tom
>

[Tom Shelton]

Re: Is VB Caca??

On Mar 17, 9:35 pm, "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstn... @planet.nl>
wrote:

Goran
>
beside what Herfried wrote
>
A a very simple one, however is in my idea good maintanable
\\\
Dim x As Integer
While x < 10
x += 1
End While
///
>
\\\
int x;
while (x < 10)
{
x += 1;}
>
///
As sample does not go,while it is very handy.
>
(Or maybe is there a setting I don't know)
>
Cor

Your C# code would not compile. You would get a use of uninitialized
local variable error :) In C#, it is required that you initialize a
local variable before it's first use (C# only guarentees default
initialization for class level variables). The above would be best
expressed in C#:

int x = 0;
while (x < 10)
{
x++;
}

of course, you could do away with the {} in this case, and even do it
on one line:

while (x < 10) x++;

--
Tom Shelton

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

Re: Is VB Caca??

Tom,

It does not compare, I checked it although I know it would not, but as you
know you never use it in C#.

My point is that I like the way it is done in VB.Net and in my eyes. VB.Net
is the start of a new generation of programming languages. While C# is the
end of the C generartion. As forever people need time to get use to it, but
I have the believe that it will be like that as soon as the shorter develop
time becomes also vissible at management level. (And again I don't see it as
a successor from VB6, it adopted only some good things from that although it
took much more from C++)

The code I made for C# which is exactly the same in VB.Net, will not compile
in C#, while I don't understand why and can only see legancy
impossibilities .

We will probably see a lot of message which will show that the C# method is
better, but the same kind of message I have already read a while ago about
the puchcard which was better than the hard disk because it was by instance
better transportable.

:-)

Cor

"Tom Shelton" <tom_shelton@co mcast.netschree f in bericht
news:1174200768 .614048.247430@ b75g2000hsg.goo glegroups.com.. .

On Mar 17, 9:35 pm, "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstn... @planet.nl>
wrote:

>Goran
>>
>beside what Herfried wrote
>>
>A a very simple one, however is in my idea good maintanable
>\\\
> Dim x As Integer
> While x < 10
> x += 1
> End While
>///
>>
>\\\
>int x;
>while (x < 10)
>{
> x += 1;}
>>
>///
>As sample does not go,while it is very handy.
>>
>(Or maybe is there a setting I don't know)
>>
>Cor

>
Your C# code would not compile. You would get a use of uninitialized
local variable error :) In C#, it is required that you initialize a
local variable before it's first use (C# only guarentees default
initialization for class level variables). The above would be best
expressed in C#:
>
int x = 0;
while (x < 10)
{
x++;
}
>
of course, you could do away with the {} in this case, and even do it
on one line:
>
while (x < 10) x++;
>
--
Tom Shelton
>
>

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

Re: Is VB Caca??

compare has to be compile

Tom,
>
It does not compare, I checked it although I know it would not, but as you
know you never use it in C#.
>
My point is that I like the way it is done in VB.Net and in my eyes.
VB.Net is the start of a new generation of programming languages. While C#
is the end of the C generartion. As forever people need time to get use to
it, but I have the believe that it will be like that as soon as the
shorter develop time becomes also vissible at management level. (And again
I don't see it as a successor from VB6, it adopted only some good things
from that although it took much more from C++)
>
The code I made for C# which is exactly the same in VB.Net, will not
compile in C#, while I don't understand why and can only see legancy
impossibilities .
>
We will probably see a lot of message which will show that the C# method
is better, but the same kind of message I have already read a while ago
about the puchcard which was better than the hard disk because it was by
instance better transportable.
>
:-)
>
Cor
>
"Tom Shelton" <tom_shelton@co mcast.netschree f in bericht
news:1174200768 .614048.247430@ b75g2000hsg.goo glegroups.com.. .

>On Mar 17, 9:35 pm, "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstn... @planet.nl>
>wrote:

>>Goran
>>>
>>beside what Herfried wrote
>>>
>>A a very simple one, however is in my idea good maintanable
>>\\\
>> Dim x As Integer
>> While x < 10
>> x += 1
>> End While
>>///
>>>
>>\\\
>>int x;
>>while (x < 10)
>>{
>> x += 1;}
>>>
>>///
>>As sample does not go,while it is very handy.
>>>
>>(Or maybe is there a setting I don't know)
>>>
>>Cor

>>
>Your C# code would not compile. You would get a use of uninitialized
>local variable error :) In C#, it is required that you initialize a
>local variable before it's first use (C# only guarentees default
>initializati on for class level variables). The above would be best
>expressed in C#:
>>
>int x = 0;
>while (x < 10)
>{
> x++;
>}
>>
>of course, you could do away with the {} in this case, and even do it
>on one line:
>>
>while (x < 10) x++;
>>
>--
>Tom Shelton
>>
>>

>
>

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Re: Is VB Caca??

"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstname @planet.nlschri eb:

It does not compare, I checked it although I know it would not, but as you
know you never use it in C#.
>
My point is that I like the way it is done in VB.Net and in my eyes.
VB.Net is the start of a new generation of programming languages. While C#
is the end of the C generartion. As forever people need time to get use to
it, but I have the believe that it will be like that as soon as the
shorter develop time becomes also vissible at management level. (And again
I don't see it as a successor from VB6, it adopted only some good things
from that although it took much more from C++)
>
The code I made for C# which is exactly the same in VB.Net, will not
compile in C#, while I don't understand why and can only see legancy
impossibilities .

What exactly won't compile? As Tom said, C# doesn't (IMO unfortunately)
automatically initialize variables of value types.

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

Re: Is VB Caca??

Herfried,

I would be glad if it would compile in C#, I am not doing only VB.Net you
know.

Cor

"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-here@gmx.atschr eef in bericht
news:e%231an3Va HHA.1400@TK2MSF TNGP06.phx.gbl. ..

"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstname @planet.nlschri eb:

>It does not compare, I checked it although I know it would not, but as
>you know you never use it in C#.
>>
>My point is that I like the way it is done in VB.Net and in my eyes.
>VB.Net is the start of a new generation of programming languages. While
>C# is the end of the C generartion. As forever people need time to get
>use to it, but I have the believe that it will be like that as soon as
>the shorter develop time becomes also vissible at management level. (And
>again I don't see it as a successor from VB6, it adopted only some good
>things from that although it took much more from C++)
>>
>The code I made for C# which is exactly the same in VB.Net, will not
>compile in C#, while I don't understand why and can only see legancy
>impossibilitie s.

>
What exactly won't compile? As Tom said, C# doesn't (IMO unfortunately)
automatically initialize variables of value types.
>
--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Andersson?=]

Re: Is VB Caca??

Herfried K. Wagner [MVP] wrote:

"Göran Andersson" <guffa@guffa.co mschrieb:

>>>>You are able to declare inside a very deep scope without assigning
>>>>Your code is checked in a very deep way while typing.
>>>>>
>>>>Both I miss very much in C#
>>>>
>>>I don't see how VB.NET is any different from C# in either of those
>>>aspects.
>>>
>>I assume Cor refers to VB's background compilation with the latter
>>point, a feature that is not present in C# currently.

>>
>But it is.

>
What? Background compilation and error detection on the fly as you type?
>

Yes.

--
Göran Andersson
_____

http://www.guffa.com

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Andersson?=]

Re: Is VB Caca??

Scott M. wrote:

>But it is.

>
No, it's not. In VB.NET, as soon as you move your cursor off the current
line, the dynamic compilation feature of the language/VS.NET will check the
code on that line for syntax and compile errors and you will get the
infamous "blue wavy underline" right away.

Yes. That's how it works in C# too. Only as it's not line based, it will
also do the check if you pause for a second while typing a line.

In C#, you must build your code to get the same syntax checking. C# is not
dynamically compiled like VB.NET is.

In Visual Stuido 2005 it is.

It's too bad, because it's really the main reason I haven't move to more
development in C# yet.

I see a move coming up... :)

--
Göran Andersson
_____

http://www.guffa.com

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Re: Is VB Caca??

"Göran Andersson" <guffa@guffa.co mschrieb:

>>>>>You are able to declare inside a very deep scope without assigning
>>>>>Your code is checked in a very deep way while typing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Both I miss very much in C#
>>>>>
>>>>I don't see how VB.NET is any different from C# in either of those
>>>>aspects.
>>>>
>>>I assume Cor refers to VB's background compilation with the latter
>>>point, a feature that is not present in C# currently.
>>>
>>But it is.

>>
>What? Background compilation and error detection on the fly as you type?

>
Yes.

Yep, but that's not supported in the completeness it's supported in VB. For
C#, only a simple syntax check is performed, but VB's background compiler
detects far more errors.

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Re: Is VB Caca??

Cor,

"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstname @planet.nlschri eb:

I would be glad if it would compile in C#, I am not doing only VB.Net you
know.

You cannot expect C# to behave the way VB does and vice-versa. If this was
the case, we would only need a single .NET programming language.

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Re: Is VB Caca??

Addendum:

Sample:

\\\
string s;
s = s.ToUpper();
///

For C#, the warning will only be shown after compiling the project, whereas
VB's background compiler would detect immediately.

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Andersson?=]

Re: Is VB Caca??

Cor Ligthert [MVP] wrote:

Goran
>
beside what Herfried wrote
>
A a very simple one, however is in my idea good maintanable
\\\
Dim x As Integer
While x < 10
x += 1
End While
///
>
\\\
int x;
while (x < 10)
{
x += 1;
}
///
As sample does not go,while it is very handy.
>
(Or maybe is there a setting I don't know)
>
Cor
>
>

Oh, I see.

What you are talking about is implicit initialisation of local
variables. I wouldn't use that in a deep scope anyway, as the variable
is only initialised when the method starts, not at the line where you
declare it.

Example:

Dim s As String
s = String.Empty

Dim i As Integer
For i = 1 To 10
Dim x As Integer
x += 1
s += x.ToString + ","
Next

This will not produce the string "1,1,1,1,1,1,1, 1,1,1," but the string
"1,2,3,4,5,6,7, 8,9,10,", as the value of x is retained outside of it's
scope. The variable is created and initialised when the method starts,
and the placement of the Dim statement only decides it's scope.

In C# the variable can not be initialised outside of it's scope, so you
can't have a situation where you use a variable that retains it's value
outside the scope.

--
Göran Andersson
_____

http://www.guffa.com

[Tom Leylan]

Re: Is VB Caca??

It was my attempt to turn a potential language war thread into something
more along the lines of a discussion. I was hoping people would understand
that the language they use isn't the only one and their particular needs not
the needs of everybody.

When somebody writes that something is "easier" (say the UCASE() function)
one should consider that it is easier to them and perhaps easier to the
other people in their club but not easier to everybody. Following a
language-agnostic methodology is probably "easier" if one switches between
languages regularly.

It was my hope I could jump in before somebody claimed that VB.Net is new
and that C# is the end of a generation or suggested that people preferred
punch cards to disk drives because they are more portable (which of course
they aren't unless 2 GB of punch cards can fit on the end of a keychain) but
alas that has already been posted.

If I were to guess I'd say VB.Net is making inroads into the corporation
precisely because it isn't VB6.


"Tony K" <king-tony2@NOSPAMcom cast.netwrote.. .

Wow!!
>
"Tom Leylan" <tleylan@nospam .netwrote in message
news:uGP8q4OaHH A.808@TK2MSFTNG P04.phx.gbl...

>"RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam. yah.nonewrote..

>>Why do you hang out here if you don't like VB?

>>
>Hi Robin: I realize your question was directed to Göran but I thought
>I'd take a stab at it since you seem like a reasonable person.
>Notwithstandin g your attempts in microsoft.publi c.dotnet.genera l to get
>people to stop posting questions about why their modem won't dial and
>such :-)

<snip>

[Scott M.]

Re: Is VB Caca??

Sounds like you have a case of diarrhea of the fingers to me. Seriously,
all that for an innocuous 11 word reply? And, then again for a one word
reply?


"Tom Leylan" <tleylan@nospam .netwrote in message
news:u5VFZRWaHH A.1296@TK2MSFTN GP02.phx.gbl...

It was my attempt to turn a potential language war thread into something
more along the lines of a discussion. I was hoping people would
understand that the language they use isn't the only one and their
particular needs not the needs of everybody.
>
When somebody writes that something is "easier" (say the UCASE() function)
one should consider that it is easier to them and perhaps easier to the
other people in their club but not easier to everybody. Following a
language-agnostic methodology is probably "easier" if one switches between
languages regularly.
>
It was my hope I could jump in before somebody claimed that VB.Net is new
and that C# is the end of a generation or suggested that people preferred
punch cards to disk drives because they are more portable (which of course
they aren't unless 2 GB of punch cards can fit on the end of a keychain)
but alas that has already been posted.
>
If I were to guess I'd say VB.Net is making inroads into the corporation
precisely because it isn't VB6.
>
>
"Tony K" <king-tony2@NOSPAMcom cast.netwrote.. .

>Wow!!
>>
>"Tom Leylan" <tleylan@nospam .netwrote in message
>news:uGP8q4OaH HA.808@TK2MSFTN GP04.phx.gbl...

>>"RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam. yah.nonewrote..
>>>Why do you hang out here if you don't like VB?
>>>
>>Hi Robin: I realize your question was directed to Göran but I thought
>>I'd take a stab at it since you seem like a reasonable person.
>>Notwithstandi ng your attempts in microsoft.publi c.dotnet.genera l to get
>>people to stop posting questions about why their modem won't dial and
>>such :-)

<snip>
>
>
>