Classes vs. Modules

[RobinS]

Re: Classes vs. Modules

That's one word for him. Not the one I would use, though. ;-)

Robin S.
--------------------
"Scott M." <s-mar@nospam.nosp amwrote in message
news:ev%23BdHvT HHA.1552@TK2MSF TNGP05.phx.gbl. ..

>I rarely put anyone on my filter list, so if he's on it, he must be a real
>winner!
>
>
"RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam. yah.nonewrote in message
news:YeqdnZeeE-n6eVLYnZ2dnUVZ_ vipnZ2d@comcast .com...

>And I bet you miss that, don't you? ;-)
>>
>Robin S.
>-----------------------------
>"Scott M." <s-mar@nospam.nosp amwrote in message
>news:ebNj1HkTH HA.4404@TK2MSFT NGP03.phx.gbl.. .

>>Ah, that must be it since I don't see any messages from Aaron either.
>>>
>>>
>>"RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam. yah.nonewrote in message
>>news:TM-dnbWlhdLh71LYnZ 2dnUVZ_qunnZ2d@ comcast.com...
>>>Yes, it was a response to Aaron Kempf. Otherwise, I didn't feel you
>>>guys needed any help discussing this issue; you were doing great
>>>without my input. ;-)
>>>>
>>>Robin S.
>>>---------------------------
>>>"Scott M." <s-mar@nospam.nosp amwrote in message
>>>news:uWeXABh THHA.1228@TK2MS FTNGP06.phx.gbl ...
>>>>>I see this one. Perhaps you replied to someone that I have on my kill
>>>>>list so I didn't see that branch!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>"RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam. yah.nonewrote in message
>>>>news:4MmdnT XaD62zJFPYnZ2dn UVZ_tKjnZ2d@com cast.com...
>>>>>There's only been one post by me (Robin) *in* this entire thread. Do
>>>>>you see this one?
>>>>>>
>>>>>Robin S.
>>>>>----------------------
>>>>>"Scott M." <s-mar@nospam.nosp amwrote in message
>>>>>news:OAHhy FZTHHA.4076@TK2 MSFTNGP05.phx.g bl...
>>>>>>Must have. I don't see anything from Robin in this entire thread.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Bruce W. Darby" <kracorat@atcom cast.netwrote in message
>>>>>>news:e8Gd nRTsgZVgw1PYnZ2 dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@c omcast.com...
>>>>>>>Not sure Scott. Are you seeing other posts by Robin? Or did you
>>>>>>>inadvert ently add him to your killfile?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Scott M." <s-mar@nospam.nosp amwrote in message
>>>>>>>news:Oew Pq6WTHHA.1364@T K2MSFTNGP06.phx .gbl...
>>>>>>>>Hmmm, why don't I see Robin's message in this thread?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Bruc e W. Darby" <kracorat@atcom cast.netwrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:VP OdnfPnqumNpVPYn Z2dnUVZ_tunnZ2d @comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>I'll answer that for him, Robin.... because he CAN'T!! I'm
>>>>>>>>>comi ng to the conclusion that our neophyte troll doesn't know
>>>>>>>>>how to program. If he can't drag it and drop it, he's lost. Now,
>>>>>>>>>he COULD prove me wrong, but I doubt that he'll even attempt to.
>>>>>>>>>:)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Bruc e
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Robin S" <RobinS@NoSpam. yah.nonewrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:x sidnT6DOox6ilPY nZ2dnUVZ_vyunZ2 d@comcast.com.. .
>>>>>>>>>>Why don't you post some code samples that show the same thing
>>>>>>>>>>runni ng in VB6 and VB2005 and show the performance statistics?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Rob in S.
>>>>>>>>>>Ts' i mahnu uterna ot twan ot geifur hingts uto.
>>>>>>>>>>-----------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>
>

[Zytan]

Re: Classes vs. Modules

Personally I import all namespaces containing types I am using. I hate

namespace-qualified types inside the implementation because they blow up
code resulting in very long lines. In general I qualify types (classes,
structures, ...) and functions (in modules) only if there would be a name
clash otherwise.

I've grown tired of monospaced fonts and moved to variable width
fonts, and smaller fonts, and moved all my toolbars out of the way to
essentially show line lengths 3 times or more the length they normally
would show. This helps ease the issue of readability.

Right now, for me being a beginner, there's an overload of info, so I
want to know what is where. Importing everything is a huge no-no.
Maybe it works for veterans, but for others, I can't see this helping
since they never get a feel for the framework.

Zytan

[Zytan]

Re: Classes vs. Modules

I don't need to

>
startup a vb6 forms app.. and startup a vb 2005 forms app
>
it's obvious to me which is faster

Might that be due to the .NET framework? I would imagine in 5 years
or whatever it uses more resources than whatever VB6 uses.

Zytan

[Zytan]

Re: Classes vs. Modules

yeah

>
module aaron
>
module matt
>
I can refer to aaron.method1 or matt.method2 just as easily as with a
class; but I don't need to instantiate an instance of the class first

Yes, right, of course. So you can reference the methods from the
module name. But you don't have to. Because you don't have to, I
don't feel like they are locked in there as they should be. But, they
are encapsulated, that's for sure.

For classes with shared functions, you don't need to instantiate them,
either, but yeah, it seems like a 'hack' to make it act like a module,
I know.

Zytan

[Zytan]

Re: Classes vs. Modules

yeah

>
module aaron
>
module matt
>
I can refer to aaron.method1 or matt.method2 just as easily as with a
class; but I don't need to instantiate an instance of the class first

I want to reply to this again. What I meant more for encapsulation is
that because they are available globally, it means data members within
them are global. This is not proper encapsulation. Yes, what you say
above is true, but it doesn't encapsulate everything. Global vars are
horrible.

Zytan

[Zytan]

Re: Classes vs. Modules

you think that vb6 was build on a prior version of the .net runtime?

Not since I've asked the question, no.

yeah, vb6 had classes; it didn't support inheritence

Maybe that's why I thought it.

Zytan

[Tom Shelton]

Re: Classes vs. Modules

On Feb 12, 7:30 pm, "Zytan" <zytanlith...@y ahoo.comwrote:

that would sure be interesting to me

>

so I can make a class named 'aaron' and I can put functions in it..
and I can reuse those functions without instantiating a class?

>

I just don't like all of the dependencies between that style of
writing; it makes me sick to think about it

>
Dependencies are bad for sure. But, I am not sure what writing style
you are referring to that has dependencies? Using Modules? Using
Classes? The only 'dependency' I can see is that Classes are forced
to have everything Shared to act as a Module, but this is reinforced
if ever you attempt to use a function, so it's ok.
>
Zytan

Your no more likely to have dependencies with a class then you are
with a module. You can have a module that relies on functions in
another module, just as you can have a class that relies on functions
in another class. Both create cause your code to be tightly coupled,
and that should be avoided as much as possible, wether you use classes
or modules.

--
Tom Shelton

[Zytan]

Re: Classes vs. Modules

You're no more likely to have dependencies with a class then you are

with a module. You can have a module that relies on functions in
another module, just as you can have a class that relies on functions
in another class. Both create cause your code to be tightly coupled,
and that should be avoided as much as possible, whether you use classes
or modules.

Yes, very true. I guess that's what I was trying to say, is that
neither is worse than the other. But, yeah, the way my post came out
was ridiculous. Thanks for clarifying.

Zytan

[Tom Shelton]

Re: Classes vs. Modules

On 2007-02-13, Zytan <zytanlithium@y ahoo.comwrote:

>You're no more likely to have dependencies with a class then you are
>with a module. You can have a module that relies on functions in
>another module, just as you can have a class that relies on functions
>in another class. Both create cause your code to be tightly coupled,
>and that should be avoided as much as possible, whether you use classes
>or modules.

>
Yes, very true. I guess that's what I was trying to say, is that
neither is worse than the other. But, yeah, the way my post came out
was ridiculous. Thanks for clarifying.
>
Zytan

Zytan,

Your post was fine. My reply was ment for Aaron - but I accidently
replied to you. Sorry.

--
Tom Shelton

[aaron.kempf@gmail.com]

Re: Classes vs. Modules


sorry I meant multiple inheritence

ala C++

OOP without multiple inheritence is no better off than VB6

and OOP without design tools ala class designer is a joke
it shouldn't cost 3 grand if 'everyone should be using classes for
everything'

I just do not see any new functionality that classes give me; and I've
got a dozen books that state that they give slower execution time.
so only a bastard would subject their clients to slower execution
time.

seriously-- performance is king; oop does not help performance; it
hurts it; so i'll continue with my procedural / spaghetti code thank
you very much




On Feb 12, 10:44 am, "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum. mit.edu.nospam>
wrote:

That's news to me. I use polymorphism in both VB 2005 and C# 2005. Maybe
what you really mean is that both languages require (optional in VB 2005)
strongly typed parameter passing and VB 6 and earlier let you write sloppy
code that you had to runtime check every single parameter.
>
Mike Ober.
>
<aaron.ke...@gm ail.comwrote in message
>
news:1171302098 .611440.30110@p 10g2000cwp.goog legroups.com...
>

fully agree spam catcher

>

I mean-- it's really obvious to me that modules should be used
whenever possible so you don't need 12 different copies of the same
method

>

(since vb 2005 and c# don't support polymorphism)

>

On Feb 11, 12:43 am, Spam Catcher <spamhoney...@r ogers.comwrote:

"Zytan" <zytanlith...@y ahoo.comwrote in news:1171055866 .052844.204220
@h3g2000cwc.goo glegroups.com:

>

I try to avoid global vars like the plague, as do most, so I cannot
see why anyone would still want to use this.

>

For redundant functions it doesn't make sent to need to instaniate
everytime just to use em :-)

[aaron.kempf@gmail.com]

Re: Classes vs. Modules

martin

sorry I stopped reading when you admitted that it might slow down
execution a tiny bit.

i don't care how much a tiny bit is; you just conceded that classes
are worthless

and i don't need a cars class or a truck class
i have a database to store data

thanks kid




On Feb 12, 4:14 pm, "Martin H." <h...@gmx.netwr ote:

Hello Aaron,
>

lloyd

>

I just said that 80% of vb6 programmers 'never used a class'

>

why did we need to get enlightened?

>

does moving to classes make our code faster?

>
It might even slow down your program a bit (for the tiny moment the
class needs to be instantiated). However, classes have the advantage
that you can encapsulate your code so that only for those objects you
need it for you can use it.
>
The following examples are just easy ones to give you the idea.
>
Example 1:
Let's say you have a class tree and a class house:
>
Public Class Tree
Public Sub Water()
...
End Sub
Public Sub Soil()
...
End Sub
Public Sub Sunshine()
...
End Sub
End Class
>
Public Class House
Public Sub Wall()
...
End Sub
Public Sub Roof()
...
End Sub
Public Sub Window()
...
End Sub
Public Sub Door()
...
End Sub
End Class
>
As you see, these two classes have nothing in common. So, when using
these classes you don't need to worry that perhaps you have global
variable (BAD...) somewhere which is changed by one of the routines as
you would keep your variables only locally within a class.
>
Example 2:
Now, let's say you want to write a program about vehicles.
>
Public Class Vehicle
Private vWheels As Integer = 0
Public Property Wheels() As Integer
Get
Return vWheels
End Get
Set (ByVal Value As Integer)
If Value<0 Then
Err.Raise(450)
Else
vWheels = Value
End If
End Set
End Property
End Class
>
Public Class VehicleWithEngi ne
Inherits Vehicle
Private vHorsePower As Integer = 1
Private vCylinders As Integer = 1
Public Property HorsePower () As Integer
Get
Return vHorsePower
End Get
Set (ByVal Value As Integer)
If Value<1 Then
Err.Raise(450)
Else
vHorsePower=Val ue
End If
End Set
End Property
>
Public Property Cylinders As Integers
Get
Return vCylinders
End Get
Set (ByVal Value As Integer)
If Value <1 Then
Err.Raise(450)
Else
vCylinders=Valu e
EndIf
End Set
End Property
End Class
>
Public Class Car
Inherits VehicleWithEngi ne
Private vDoors As Integer
Public Property Doors () As Integer
Get
Return vDoors
End Get
Set (ByVal Value As Integer)
If Value<1 Then
Err.Raise(450)
Else
vDoors = Value
End If
End Set
End Property
End Class
>
The advantage here is, that you can reuse your code. You just write your
code (and error handling) once and you can use it over and over again,
because car has the complete functionality of Vehicle and VehicleWithEngi ne.
>
Let's say, you finished your "Car" class. Now, you need a "Truck" class.
Just inherit it from Car (as a truck is just a big, specialized car) and
add the missing things (e.g. loading ramp).
>
I don't say that classes are the best invention in the world, but they
can help you to keep your source code "tidy".
>
Best regards,
>
Martin

[aaron.kempf@gmail.com]

Re: Classes vs. Modules

Im talking about..

having a car class and a bicycle class and both of them have a weight
function.. so I've got to reuse some code but I CANT I need to copy
and paste the code in order to make my maintenance job harder.

RIGHT?

Class Car
sub weight
'lookup weight in the database
end sub
End Class

Class Bicycle
sub weight
'lookup weight in the database
end sub

End Class

and don't bitch about how I should inherit both from a common vehicle
class; because uh-- shit's too complex for one way inheritence; sorry.
it just doesn't have any benefit for me; I'd rather have a module with
weight any day of the week.

unnecessary complexity is not necessary
unnecessary complexity is not sex
unnecessary code maintenance is not necessary


and how when I'm trying to explain to a C# friend why I use a module;
he's like 'uh I dont get it'

so BASICALLY vb came around first; fuck anything like C# and fuck
anyone that uses it.
end of story

I do not mean 'oh, i just won't use C#'

I mean I spit on anyone that uses it.
I spit on anyone that invented this language.
and I spit on microsoft sales person for mentioning it.

C# does not exist in my opinion.

those mother fucking gooks and chinks should have doubled their effort
in VB.net instead of splitting their bets and shipping an incomplete
product and an unstable IDE.

I mean 'invent a new language'

WHY? VB ALREADY HAD THE MARKETSHARE-- WAS JAVA A THREAT BACK THEN?
NOT WHERE I AM STANDING I THOUGHT THAT FREEWARE COM+ WAS A LOT BETTER
THAN J2EE FOR EXAMPLE

Visual Studio 2005 Professional crashes on me 2 times a day.
I do not have any malware / virus; and I never have n this machine-- I
used to do security _AT_ microsoft and I know what I am doing; thank
you



On Feb 12, 6:30 pm, "Zytan" <zytanlith...@y ahoo.comwrote:

that would sure be interesting to me

>

so I can make a class named 'aaron' and I can put functions in it..
and I can reuse those functions without instantiating a class?

>

I just don't like all of the dependencies between that style of
writing; it makes me sick to think about it

>
Dependencies are bad for sure. But, I am not sure what writing style
you are referring to that has dependencies? Using Modules? Using
Classes? The only 'dependency' I can see is that Classes are forced
to have everything Shared to act as a Module, but this is reinforced
if ever you attempt to use a function, so it's ok.
>
Zytan

[aaron.kempf@gmail.com]

Re: Classes vs. Modules



zytan

is not your method more verbose?

what you chicken shits don't understand is that vb 2002,2003 and 2005
is 'twice as verbose' as VB6
and it runs in 1/4 of the locations

so a language is TWICE AS VERBOSE WITH ONE QUARTER OF THE PORTABILITY


can I use vb dotnet code in a SQL 2000 or a SQL 2005 _JOB_??





On Feb 12, 6:37 pm, "Zytan" <zytanlith...@y ahoo.comwrote:

I think that simply importing a namespace into the file is evil (or
something close to it). My (personal, mind you) rule of thumb is, if I
must use Imports, then I must create an alias to it:

>

Imports SysThread = System.Threadin g
Imports SysRegex = System.Text.Reg ularExpression

>

As opposed to:

>

Imports System.Threadin g
Imports System.Text.Reg ularExpression

>
Wow! I didn't know you could do that!
>

Don't know if this relates to what you're talking about, and my
apologies if it drifts to OT.

>
No apologies needed! This is exactly what I am talking about! I
totally agree that importing namespaces is evil. I want to learn the
language properly, so it is important for me to know where things
are. I've been writing everything out explicitly. But, in doing so,
I can see why people get tired of it (although IntelliSense helps a
ton). But... your suggestion above is a very good answer to this, as
it saves typing, but requires the shorthand so that you remember where
the darn thing actually exists.
>
Great idea. And great concept that they implemented. thanks!
>
Zytan

[aaron.kempf@gmail.com]

Re: Classes vs. Modules

modules support encapsulation just as much as classes do.
but I do not need to duplicate my code within 500 different modules

modules support code reuse, classes do not

your idiot computer science professor was trying to convince you to
become a C++ _FAG_

the concept is called 'egocentrism'-- whatever he does is the right
route to go

(when in fact, vb won the war, but MS threw the world series; MS
surrendered and betrayed us all)

On Feb 12, 6:46 pm, "Zytan" <zytanlith...@y ahoo.comwrote:

yeah

>

module aaron

>

module matt

>

I can refer to aaron.method1 or matt.method2 just as easily as with a
class; but I don't need to instantiate an instance of the class first

>
Yes, right, of course. So you can reference the methods from the
module name. But you don't have to. Because you don't have to, I
don't feel like they are locked in there as they should be. But, they
are encapsulated, that's for sure.
>
For classes with shared functions, you don't need to instantiate them,
either, but yeah, it seems like a 'hack' to make it act like a module,
I know.
>
Zytan

[aaron.kempf@gmail.com]

Re: Classes vs. Modules

tom

well you can either duplicate your code in multiple classes
or make a functions class and instantiate the class before using the
methods within another class right?

either way you got dependencies and no benefit



On Feb 12, 10:39 pm, "Tom Shelton" <tom_shel...@co mcast.netwrote:

On Feb 12, 7:30 pm, "Zytan" <zytanlith...@y ahoo.comwrote:
>

that would sure be interesting to me

>

so I can make a class named 'aaron' and I can put functions in it..
and I can reuse those functions without instantiating a class?

>

I just don't like all of the dependencies between that style of
writing; it makes me sick to think about it

>

Dependencies are bad for sure. But, I am not sure what writing style
you are referring to that has dependencies? Using Modules? Using
Classes? The only 'dependency' I can see is that Classes are forced
to have everything Shared to act as a Module, but this is reinforced
if ever you attempt to use a function, so it's ok.

>

Zytan

>
Your no more likely to have dependencies with a class then you are
with a module. You can have a module that relies on functions in
another module, just as you can have a class that relies on functions
in another class. Both create cause your code to be tightly coupled,
and that should be avoided as much as possible, wether you use classes
or modules.
>
--
Tom Shelton