where is the Key in TreeView.NET?

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  • Ken Halter

    #16
    Re: where is the Key in TreeView.NET?

    "smith" <rcsTAKEOUT@smi thvoiceTAKEOUT. com> wrote in message
    news:6W0td.2708 $0r.885@newsrea d1.news.pas.ear thlink.net...[color=blue]
    > Instant and complete porting of old code is a valid point ... as was
    > instant porting from QBasic to VB and VB3 to VB5/6.
    >
    > I guess it's perception, as most things really are, Ken. And calling it
    > B# kinda implies that you've pretty much got your mind firmly set to a
    > position. I too had that position and I might even have had you beat in
    > my initial hatred of VB7 (http://www.smithvoice.com/adorumination.htm )[/color]

    Well.. you've done a fairly good job of "prodding" VB6'ers over to B# but,
    imo, that still doesn't mean B# is VB. Regardless. imo, B# is currently
    about as useful as VB2 was (I'd say VB1 but there's already been a couple of
    B# releases). As long as the framework is still running on top of the OS (as
    Win3.1 still ran on top of DOS), it'll be dog slow and buggy. I prefer to
    leave it to others to work with until it's mature. Let everyone else deal
    with the "when I did this, the IDE crashed... but that was expected" type
    problems. I have too much work (in VB6) to do. The company I currently work
    for has zero interest in re-writting 20+ years worth of code just so they
    can say that it't ".Net compatible". They just want something that works. It
    doesn't matter one little bit if there's a ".Net" in the name. We don't do
    database/web or any of the other types of apps that .Net was designed for.

    fwiw, I plan on using B# to learn my way around the framework. There's very
    little evidence that anything "profession al" will ever be written in B#. I
    can point you to dozens of component vendors that claim that their
    components are "100% C# authored". Not one that I've found claims to be
    "100% B# authored". B# is still as much of a "toy language" as VB was/is as
    far as MS and everyone else is concerned.

    btw... my reference to "B#" vs the various nicknames for "the flavor of the
    month.Net" is not a put down to the language. There absolutely needs to be a
    way to tell them apart. VB.Net, as people refer to it in some groups, is
    already dead. There is no ".Net" in the name anymore. VB <> B#, which means
    we need a way to tell them apart. VB2005 will soon be released. It's just a
    matter of time before people start calling that VB5. Just try searching for
    VB5 samples and you'll see a problem. Try entering ".Net" in any search
    engine. The results are worthless due to the .Net domain names. B# syntax is
    closer to C# than it is to VB so B# is a great name and one that we've
    suggested many times.

    As long as people are complaining about B# benchmark results when compared
    to VB6, and I have an OS that supports VB6, I'll be using VB6.

    --
    Ken Halter - MS-MVP-VB - http://www.vbsight.com
    Please keep all discussions in the groups..


    Comment

    • smith

      #17
      Re: where is the Key in TreeView.NET?

      Oh, obfuscation. Another huge, huge worry when you start out. But for
      *most* VB developers who do corporate work it's not really a deal-breaker,
      right?

      However, if you aren't a corporate dev then just don't use the free version
      of Dotfusctor that comes with VS.

      If you truly need obfuscation ... truly, as in you are a for-retail dev,
      then go to the Standard Edition (I use that version myself when my projects
      go outside a corporate environment) or to the Professional Edition. Or use
      any of the other obfuscators that are out there, or even go to Thinstall
      (that is a cool tool: www.thinstall.com )

      Yes, they cost money but if you make money from your work then you can claim
      the investment in your taxes and having the proper tools is the cost of
      doing business in any business.

      Look to the "real" vendors to see how they obfuscate (such as ComponentOne
      of Infragistics or even the good little guy Rebex www.rebex.net. Just get
      one of their controls and run it through Reflector from
      http://www.aisto.com/roeder/dotnet/ and see how much code a bad person can
      really steal from these reputable companies )

      All the best, again :)

      Robert Smith
      Kirkland, WA




      Comment

      • Ken Halter

        #18
        Re: where is the Key in TreeView.NET?

        "smith" <rcsTAKEOUT@smi thvoiceTAKEOUT. com> wrote in message
        news:qo1td.2739 $0r.2157@newsre ad1.news.pas.ea rthlink.net...[color=blue]
        > Oh, obfuscation. Another huge, huge worry when you start out. But for
        > *most* VB developers who do corporate work it's not really a deal-breaker,
        > right?
        >
        > However, if you aren't a corporate dev then just don't use the free
        > version of Dotfusctor that comes with VS.[/color]

        My point exactly.... Something that no one ever had to worry about is now a
        huge worry and will cost developers dearly (so much for about 60% of the
        shareware market). No thanks. I like compiled code. Gave up P-Code quite a
        few years ago.

        --
        Ken Halter - MS-MVP-VB - http://www.vbsight.com
        Please keep all discussions in the groups..


        Comment

        • smith

          #19
          Re: where is the Key in TreeView.NET?

          :)

          C++ makes the second-fastest code out there and MASM makes the fastest ever,
          right?

          Well, I can make VC++ on an HT box go slower than VB for DOS on a 286
          because I don't have a lot of daily experience with VC++. :)

          You're an MVP Ken, you know that a dev's experience with a specific task at
          hand is usually what makes the biggest difference. And because of your
          certified qualifications and experience I'm sure that you'll agree that a
          VB5 person was faster up to speed with VB6 than a person whose very first
          look at code was the VB6 IDE, and extrapolating on that I think you'll give
          the nod to the idea that getting some *real* experience now with VB7 is a
          great way to be floored by running the same code in just a few months using
          the release version of VB8. I can't make blanket statements, but I can give
          this example:


          "When I ran this code in my environment with ADO.NET 1.1 and Visual Studio
          2003, the execution time was about 30 minutes. With ADO.NET 2.0 and Visual
          Studio 2005, I had an execution time of approximately 40-50 seconds!"



          I wish it weren't true but I really have to get to work :). It's been a
          great discussion and I thank you very much. (and thanks for taking a look at
          my humble vb site, ther are a lot of "VBClassic" things there that I am
          quite proud of)

          Robert



          "Ken Halter" <Ken_Halter@Use _Sparingly_Hotm ail.com> wrote in message
          news:e$NtqL82EH A.2592@TK2MSFTN GP09.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
          > "smith" <rcsTAKEOUT@smi thvoiceTAKEOUT. com> wrote in message
          > news:6W0td.2708 $0r.885@newsrea d1.news.pas.ear thlink.net...[color=green]
          >> Instant and complete porting of old code is a valid point ... as was
          >> instant porting from QBasic to VB and VB3 to VB5/6.
          >>
          >> I guess it's perception, as most things really are, Ken. And calling it
          >> B# kinda implies that you've pretty much got your mind firmly set to a
          >> position. I too had that position and I might even have had you beat in
          >> my initial hatred of VB7 (http://www.smithvoice.com/adorumination.htm )[/color]
          >
          > Well.. you've done a fairly good job of "prodding" VB6'ers over to B# but,
          > imo, that still doesn't mean B# is VB. Regardless. imo, B# is currently
          > about as useful as VB2 was (I'd say VB1 but there's already been a couple
          > of B# releases). As long as the framework is still running on top of the
          > OS (as Win3.1 still ran on top of DOS), it'll be dog slow and buggy. I
          > prefer to leave it to others to work with until it's mature. Let everyone
          > else deal with the "when I did this, the IDE crashed... but that was
          > expected" type problems. I have too much work (in VB6) to do. The company
          > I currently work for has zero interest in re-writting 20+ years worth of
          > code just so they can say that it't ".Net compatible". They just want
          > something that works. It doesn't matter one little bit if there's a ".Net"
          > in the name. We don't do database/web or any of the other types of apps
          > that .Net was designed for.
          >
          > fwiw, I plan on using B# to learn my way around the framework. There's
          > very little evidence that anything "profession al" will ever be written in
          > B#. I can point you to dozens of component vendors that claim that their
          > components are "100% C# authored". Not one that I've found claims to be
          > "100% B# authored". B# is still as much of a "toy language" as VB was/is
          > as far as MS and everyone else is concerned.
          >
          > btw... my reference to "B#" vs the various nicknames for "the flavor of
          > the month.Net" is not a put down to the language. There absolutely needs
          > to be a way to tell them apart. VB.Net, as people refer to it in some
          > groups, is already dead. There is no ".Net" in the name anymore. VB <> B#,
          > which means we need a way to tell them apart. VB2005 will soon be
          > released. It's just a matter of time before people start calling that VB5.
          > Just try searching for VB5 samples and you'll see a problem. Try entering
          > ".Net" in any search engine. The results are worthless due to the .Net
          > domain names. B# syntax is closer to C# than it is to VB so B# is a great
          > name and one that we've suggested many times.
          >
          > As long as people are complaining about B# benchmark results when compared
          > to VB6, and I have an OS that supports VB6, I'll be using VB6.
          >
          > --
          > Ken Halter - MS-MVP-VB - http://www.vbsight.com
          > Please keep all discussions in the groups..
          >[/color]


          Comment

          • Ken Halter

            #20
            Re: where is the Key in TreeView.NET?

            "smith" <rcsTAKEOUT@smi thvoiceTAKEOUT. com> wrote in message
            news:6W0td.2708 $0r.885@newsrea d1.news.pas.ear thlink.net...[color=blue]
            > Instant and complete porting of old code is a valid point ... as was
            > instant porting from QBasic to VB and VB3 to VB5/6.
            >
            > I guess it's perception, as most things really are, Ken. And calling it
            > B# kinda implies that you've pretty much got your mind firmly set to a
            > position. I too had that position and I might even have had you beat in
            > my initial hatred of VB7 (http://www.smithvoice.com/adorumination.htm )[/color]

            Well.. you've done a fairly good job of "prodding" VB6'ers over to B# but,
            imo, that still doesn't mean B# is VB. Regardless. imo, B# is currently
            about as useful as VB2 was (I'd say VB1 but there's already been a couple of
            B# releases). As long as the framework is still running on top of the OS (as
            Win3.1 still ran on top of DOS), it'll be dog slow and buggy. I prefer to
            leave it to others to work with until it's mature. Let everyone else deal
            with the "when I did this, the IDE crashed... but that was expected" type
            problems. I have too much work (in VB6) to do. The company I currently work
            for has zero interest in re-writting 20+ years worth of code just so they
            can say that it't ".Net compatible". They just want something that works. It
            doesn't matter one little bit if there's a ".Net" in the name. We don't do
            database/web or any of the other types of apps that .Net was designed for.

            fwiw, I plan on using B# to learn my way around the framework. There's very
            little evidence that anything "profession al" will ever be written in B#. I
            can point you to dozens of component vendors that claim that their
            components are "100% C# authored". Not one that I've found claims to be
            "100% B# authored". B# is still as much of a "toy language" as VB was/is as
            far as MS and everyone else is concerned.

            btw... my reference to "B#" vs the various nicknames for "the flavor of the
            month.Net" is not a put down to the language. There absolutely needs to be a
            way to tell them apart. VB.Net, as people refer to it in some groups, is
            already dead. There is no ".Net" in the name anymore. VB <> B#, which means
            we need a way to tell them apart. VB2005 will soon be released. It's just a
            matter of time before people start calling that VB5. Just try searching for
            VB5 samples and you'll see a problem. Try entering ".Net" in any search
            engine. The results are worthless due to the .Net domain names. B# syntax is
            closer to C# than it is to VB so B# is a great name and one that we've
            suggested many times.

            As long as people are complaining about B# benchmark results when compared
            to VB6, and I have an OS that supports VB6, I'll be using VB6.

            --
            Ken Halter - MS-MVP-VB - http://www.vbsight.com
            Please keep all discussions in the groups..


            Comment

            • Ken Halter

              #21
              Re: where is the Key in TreeView.NET?

              "smith" <rcsTAKEOUT@smi thvoiceTAKEOUT. com> wrote in message
              news:qo1td.2739 $0r.2157@newsre ad1.news.pas.ea rthlink.net...[color=blue]
              > Oh, obfuscation. Another huge, huge worry when you start out. But for
              > *most* VB developers who do corporate work it's not really a deal-breaker,
              > right?
              >
              > However, if you aren't a corporate dev then just don't use the free
              > version of Dotfusctor that comes with VS.[/color]

              My point exactly.... Something that no one ever had to worry about is now a
              huge worry and will cost developers dearly (so much for about 60% of the
              shareware market). No thanks. I like compiled code. Gave up P-Code quite a
              few years ago.

              --
              Ken Halter - MS-MVP-VB - http://www.vbsight.com
              Please keep all discussions in the groups..


              Comment

              • smith

                #22
                Re: where is the Key in TreeView.NET?

                :)

                C++ makes the second-fastest code out there and MASM makes the fastest ever,
                right?

                Well, I can make VC++ on an HT box go slower than VB for DOS on a 286
                because I don't have a lot of daily experience with VC++. :)

                You're an MVP Ken, you know that a dev's experience with a specific task at
                hand is usually what makes the biggest difference. And because of your
                certified qualifications and experience I'm sure that you'll agree that a
                VB5 person was faster up to speed with VB6 than a person whose very first
                look at code was the VB6 IDE, and extrapolating on that I think you'll give
                the nod to the idea that getting some *real* experience now with VB7 is a
                great way to be floored by running the same code in just a few months using
                the release version of VB8. I can't make blanket statements, but I can give
                this example:


                "When I ran this code in my environment with ADO.NET 1.1 and Visual Studio
                2003, the execution time was about 30 minutes. With ADO.NET 2.0 and Visual
                Studio 2005, I had an execution time of approximately 40-50 seconds!"



                I wish it weren't true but I really have to get to work :). It's been a
                great discussion and I thank you very much. (and thanks for taking a look at
                my humble vb site, ther are a lot of "VBClassic" things there that I am
                quite proud of)

                Robert



                "Ken Halter" <Ken_Halter@Use _Sparingly_Hotm ail.com> wrote in message
                news:e$NtqL82EH A.2592@TK2MSFTN GP09.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
                > "smith" <rcsTAKEOUT@smi thvoiceTAKEOUT. com> wrote in message
                > news:6W0td.2708 $0r.885@newsrea d1.news.pas.ear thlink.net...[color=green]
                >> Instant and complete porting of old code is a valid point ... as was
                >> instant porting from QBasic to VB and VB3 to VB5/6.
                >>
                >> I guess it's perception, as most things really are, Ken. And calling it
                >> B# kinda implies that you've pretty much got your mind firmly set to a
                >> position. I too had that position and I might even have had you beat in
                >> my initial hatred of VB7 (http://www.smithvoice.com/adorumination.htm )[/color]
                >
                > Well.. you've done a fairly good job of "prodding" VB6'ers over to B# but,
                > imo, that still doesn't mean B# is VB. Regardless. imo, B# is currently
                > about as useful as VB2 was (I'd say VB1 but there's already been a couple
                > of B# releases). As long as the framework is still running on top of the
                > OS (as Win3.1 still ran on top of DOS), it'll be dog slow and buggy. I
                > prefer to leave it to others to work with until it's mature. Let everyone
                > else deal with the "when I did this, the IDE crashed... but that was
                > expected" type problems. I have too much work (in VB6) to do. The company
                > I currently work for has zero interest in re-writting 20+ years worth of
                > code just so they can say that it't ".Net compatible". They just want
                > something that works. It doesn't matter one little bit if there's a ".Net"
                > in the name. We don't do database/web or any of the other types of apps
                > that .Net was designed for.
                >
                > fwiw, I plan on using B# to learn my way around the framework. There's
                > very little evidence that anything "profession al" will ever be written in
                > B#. I can point you to dozens of component vendors that claim that their
                > components are "100% C# authored". Not one that I've found claims to be
                > "100% B# authored". B# is still as much of a "toy language" as VB was/is
                > as far as MS and everyone else is concerned.
                >
                > btw... my reference to "B#" vs the various nicknames for "the flavor of
                > the month.Net" is not a put down to the language. There absolutely needs
                > to be a way to tell them apart. VB.Net, as people refer to it in some
                > groups, is already dead. There is no ".Net" in the name anymore. VB <> B#,
                > which means we need a way to tell them apart. VB2005 will soon be
                > released. It's just a matter of time before people start calling that VB5.
                > Just try searching for VB5 samples and you'll see a problem. Try entering
                > ".Net" in any search engine. The results are worthless due to the .Net
                > domain names. B# syntax is closer to C# than it is to VB so B# is a great
                > name and one that we've suggested many times.
                >
                > As long as people are complaining about B# benchmark results when compared
                > to VB6, and I have an OS that supports VB6, I'll be using VB6.
                >
                > --
                > Ken Halter - MS-MVP-VB - http://www.vbsight.com
                > Please keep all discussions in the groups..
                >[/color]


                Comment

                • Bob O`Bob

                  #23
                  Re: where is the Key in TreeView.NET?

                  smith wrote:
                  [color=blue]
                  > Oh, obfuscation. Another huge, huge worry when you start out. But for
                  > *most* VB developers who do corporate work it's not really a deal-breaker,
                  > right?[/color]


                  Amazing how easily the faulty assumptions creep in...

                  I'd estimate more than half the people who read that will think
                  that you are asserting that "most VB developers" do/did "corporate work"
                  And many of those readers will just accept it without evidence.

                  Eventually it becomes "everybody knows that..."




                  Bob
                  --

                  Comment

                  • Bob O`Bob

                    #24
                    Re: where is the Key in TreeView.NET?

                    smith wrote:
                    [color=blue]
                    > Oh, obfuscation. Another huge, huge worry when you start out. But for
                    > *most* VB developers who do corporate work it's not really a deal-breaker,
                    > right?[/color]


                    Amazing how easily the faulty assumptions creep in...

                    I'd estimate more than half the people who read that will think
                    that you are asserting that "most VB developers" do/did "corporate work"
                    And many of those readers will just accept it without evidence.

                    Eventually it becomes "everybody knows that..."




                    Bob
                    --

                    Comment

                    • smith

                      #25
                      Re: where is the Key in TreeView.NET?

                      Show me the numbers, Bob. ;-)

                      "Bob O`Bob" <filterbob@yaho ogroups.com> wrote in message
                      news:ezDWd$82EH A.2540@TK2MSFTN GP09.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
                      > smith wrote:
                      >[color=green]
                      >> Oh, obfuscation. Another huge, huge worry when you start out. But for
                      >> *most* VB developers who do corporate work it's not really a
                      >> deal-breaker, right?[/color]
                      >
                      >
                      > Amazing how easily the faulty assumptions creep in...
                      >
                      > I'd estimate more than half the people who read that will think
                      > that you are asserting that "most VB developers" do/did "corporate work"
                      > And many of those readers will just accept it without evidence.
                      >
                      > Eventually it becomes "everybody knows that..."
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Bob
                      > --[/color]


                      Comment

                      • smith

                        #26
                        Re: where is the Key in TreeView.NET?

                        Show me the numbers, Bob. ;-)

                        "Bob O`Bob" <filterbob@yaho ogroups.com> wrote in message
                        news:ezDWd$82EH A.2540@TK2MSFTN GP09.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
                        > smith wrote:
                        >[color=green]
                        >> Oh, obfuscation. Another huge, huge worry when you start out. But for
                        >> *most* VB developers who do corporate work it's not really a
                        >> deal-breaker, right?[/color]
                        >
                        >
                        > Amazing how easily the faulty assumptions creep in...
                        >
                        > I'd estimate more than half the people who read that will think
                        > that you are asserting that "most VB developers" do/did "corporate work"
                        > And many of those readers will just accept it without evidence.
                        >
                        > Eventually it becomes "everybody knows that..."
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Bob
                        > --[/color]


                        Comment

                        • alpine

                          #27
                          Re: where is the Key in TreeView.NET?

                          You're the one that made the assertion. Back it up, bub! ;-)

                          Bryan
                          _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________
                          New Vision Software "When the going gets weird,"
                          Bryan Stafford "the weird turn pro."
                          alpine_don'tsen dspam@mvps.org Hunter S. Thompson -
                          Microsoft MVP-Visual Basic Fear and Loathing in LasVegas


                          On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 20:18:15 GMT, "smith"
                          <rcsTAKEOUT@smi thvoiceTAKEOUT. com> wrote:
                          [color=blue]
                          >Show me the numbers, Bob. ;-)
                          >
                          >"Bob O`Bob" <filterbob@yaho ogroups.com> wrote in message
                          >news:ezDWd$82E HA.2540@TK2MSFT NGP09.phx.gbl.. .[color=green]
                          >> smith wrote:
                          >>[color=darkred]
                          >>> Oh, obfuscation. Another huge, huge worry when you start out. But for
                          >>> *most* VB developers who do corporate work it's not really a
                          >>> deal-breaker, right?[/color]
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Amazing how easily the faulty assumptions creep in...
                          >>
                          >> I'd estimate more than half the people who read that will think
                          >> that you are asserting that "most VB developers" do/did "corporate work"
                          >> And many of those readers will just accept it without evidence.
                          >>
                          >> Eventually it becomes "everybody knows that..."
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Bob
                          >> --[/color]
                          >[/color]

                          Comment

                          • alpine

                            #28
                            Re: where is the Key in TreeView.NET?

                            You're the one that made the assertion. Back it up, bub! ;-)

                            Bryan
                            _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________
                            New Vision Software "When the going gets weird,"
                            Bryan Stafford "the weird turn pro."
                            alpine_don'tsen dspam@mvps.org Hunter S. Thompson -
                            Microsoft MVP-Visual Basic Fear and Loathing in LasVegas


                            On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 20:18:15 GMT, "smith"
                            <rcsTAKEOUT@smi thvoiceTAKEOUT. com> wrote:
                            [color=blue]
                            >Show me the numbers, Bob. ;-)
                            >
                            >"Bob O`Bob" <filterbob@yaho ogroups.com> wrote in message
                            >news:ezDWd$82E HA.2540@TK2MSFT NGP09.phx.gbl.. .[color=green]
                            >> smith wrote:
                            >>[color=darkred]
                            >>> Oh, obfuscation. Another huge, huge worry when you start out. But for
                            >>> *most* VB developers who do corporate work it's not really a
                            >>> deal-breaker, right?[/color]
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Amazing how easily the faulty assumptions creep in...
                            >>
                            >> I'd estimate more than half the people who read that will think
                            >> that you are asserting that "most VB developers" do/did "corporate work"
                            >> And many of those readers will just accept it without evidence.
                            >>
                            >> Eventually it becomes "everybody knows that..."
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Bob
                            >> --[/color]
                            >[/color]

                            Comment

                            • Lloyd Sheen

                              #29
                              Re: where is the Key in TreeView.NET?

                              As a long time (I got VB 1 at MS show in Long Beach) VB developer I have to
                              say that the transition is mostly painless. I got a good book and installed
                              VS 2003. Within a day I was up and running. Some of the VB6 projects would
                              not fully upgrade to VB.NET but the info in the upgrade output gave me most
                              of what was required.

                              Things that I had trouble with :
                              New methods for layout. Adding new controls after a form was "complete"
                              was often an exercise in futility. Getting things to look right took a
                              procedure (manual) to get things right. Once you get the dock and anchor
                              then you loose much of that wonderful code used for form resize. There are
                              new controls for this in VB.Net 2005 so it is easier.

                              In VS2003 you don't have edit and continue. You can set the IDE to
                              allow edits but they don't take effect until you rebuild. This is another
                              thing fixed (at least in VB Express).

                              Not really trouble but exactly what the poster is talking about. We had
                              lots of code for filling treeviews with nodes with a key. This allow the
                              easy code navigation in the treeview. That and control arrays which after
                              using VB.NET for a year are totally out of my way of thinking right now.

                              Now as a big plus the DOT.NET framework provides many classes which we had
                              to create ourselves in VB6. This provides a cleaner interface to windows
                              thru managed code so less runtime errors.

                              And speaking of errors, as a C++ programmer as well it is good to see VB.NET
                              take the "try ... catch ..." error approach. This is much easier to deal
                              with than what was in VB6.

                              Just a few thoughts. I have not yet seen any reason to stay with VB6 or non
                              managed code. Everything including data access is faster. And I even
                              created an ASP.NET ecommerce site. This would have been way out of my
                              league using the tolls available prior to DOT.NET.

                              Lloyd Sheen




                              "smith" <rcsTAKEOUT@smi thvoiceTAKEOUT. com> wrote in message
                              news:qo1td.2739 $0r.2157@newsre ad1.news.pas.ea rthlink.net...[color=blue]
                              > Oh, obfuscation. Another huge, huge worry when you start out. But for
                              > *most* VB developers who do corporate work it's not really a deal-breaker,
                              > right?
                              >
                              > However, if you aren't a corporate dev then just don't use the free
                              > version of Dotfusctor that comes with VS.
                              >
                              > If you truly need obfuscation ... truly, as in you are a for-retail dev,
                              > then go to the Standard Edition (I use that version myself when my
                              > projects go outside a corporate environment) or to the Professional
                              > Edition. Or use any of the other obfuscators that are out there, or even
                              > go to Thinstall (that is a cool tool: www.thinstall.com )
                              >
                              > Yes, they cost money but if you make money from your work then you can
                              > claim the investment in your taxes and having the proper tools is the cost
                              > of doing business in any business.
                              >
                              > Look to the "real" vendors to see how they obfuscate (such as ComponentOne
                              > of Infragistics or even the good little guy Rebex www.rebex.net. Just get
                              > one of their controls and run it through Reflector from
                              > http://www.aisto.com/roeder/dotnet/ and see how much code a bad person can
                              > really steal from these reputable companies )
                              >
                              > All the best, again :)
                              >
                              > Robert Smith
                              > Kirkland, WA
                              > www.smithvoice.com
                              >
                              >
                              >[/color]


                              Comment

                              • Lloyd Sheen

                                #30
                                Re: where is the Key in TreeView.NET?

                                As a long time (I got VB 1 at MS show in Long Beach) VB developer I have to
                                say that the transition is mostly painless. I got a good book and installed
                                VS 2003. Within a day I was up and running. Some of the VB6 projects would
                                not fully upgrade to VB.NET but the info in the upgrade output gave me most
                                of what was required.

                                Things that I had trouble with :
                                New methods for layout. Adding new controls after a form was "complete"
                                was often an exercise in futility. Getting things to look right took a
                                procedure (manual) to get things right. Once you get the dock and anchor
                                then you loose much of that wonderful code used for form resize. There are
                                new controls for this in VB.Net 2005 so it is easier.

                                In VS2003 you don't have edit and continue. You can set the IDE to
                                allow edits but they don't take effect until you rebuild. This is another
                                thing fixed (at least in VB Express).

                                Not really trouble but exactly what the poster is talking about. We had
                                lots of code for filling treeviews with nodes with a key. This allow the
                                easy code navigation in the treeview. That and control arrays which after
                                using VB.NET for a year are totally out of my way of thinking right now.

                                Now as a big plus the DOT.NET framework provides many classes which we had
                                to create ourselves in VB6. This provides a cleaner interface to windows
                                thru managed code so less runtime errors.

                                And speaking of errors, as a C++ programmer as well it is good to see VB.NET
                                take the "try ... catch ..." error approach. This is much easier to deal
                                with than what was in VB6.

                                Just a few thoughts. I have not yet seen any reason to stay with VB6 or non
                                managed code. Everything including data access is faster. And I even
                                created an ASP.NET ecommerce site. This would have been way out of my
                                league using the tolls available prior to DOT.NET.

                                Lloyd Sheen




                                "smith" <rcsTAKEOUT@smi thvoiceTAKEOUT. com> wrote in message
                                news:qo1td.2739 $0r.2157@newsre ad1.news.pas.ea rthlink.net...[color=blue]
                                > Oh, obfuscation. Another huge, huge worry when you start out. But for
                                > *most* VB developers who do corporate work it's not really a deal-breaker,
                                > right?
                                >
                                > However, if you aren't a corporate dev then just don't use the free
                                > version of Dotfusctor that comes with VS.
                                >
                                > If you truly need obfuscation ... truly, as in you are a for-retail dev,
                                > then go to the Standard Edition (I use that version myself when my
                                > projects go outside a corporate environment) or to the Professional
                                > Edition. Or use any of the other obfuscators that are out there, or even
                                > go to Thinstall (that is a cool tool: www.thinstall.com )
                                >
                                > Yes, they cost money but if you make money from your work then you can
                                > claim the investment in your taxes and having the proper tools is the cost
                                > of doing business in any business.
                                >
                                > Look to the "real" vendors to see how they obfuscate (such as ComponentOne
                                > of Infragistics or even the good little guy Rebex www.rebex.net. Just get
                                > one of their controls and run it through Reflector from
                                > http://www.aisto.com/roeder/dotnet/ and see how much code a bad person can
                                > really steal from these reputable companies )
                                >
                                > All the best, again :)
                                >
                                > Robert Smith
                                > Kirkland, WA
                                > www.smithvoice.com
                                >
                                >
                                >[/color]


                                Comment

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