device CALs

[Andy Fish]

Hi,

I am slightly confused about the meaning of a 'device cal'
(specifically for sql server but I guess the same applies to other ms
licences)

In the examples about device cals, there is a picture of a number of
windows desktops connected to a database server. each desktop can
potentially be used by a number of users and requires one device cal.
All well and good.

Now, say I have a web application hosted hosted on a different machine
and connecting to SQL server. the SQL server licencing FAQ says

"A device CAL covers multiple users' access to server software from a
single, shared device."

is my web server a shared device? so does the web server require a
single device CAL no matter how many users use it?

Andy

[David Portas]

Re: device CALs

For a database that is accessible via a Web application you must use a
Processor Licence. Device CALs then aren't required.

--
David Portas
SQL Server MVP
--

[Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)]

Re: device CALs


"David Portas" <REMOVE_BEFORE_ REPLYING_dporta s@acm.org> wrote in message
news:RM6dnYcDYb lGvpzcRVn-jA@giganews.com ...[color=blue]
> For a database that is accessible via a Web application you must use a
> Processor Licence. Device CALs then aren't required.[/color]

I'm going to jump in here and say, "I'm not sure that's quite 100% true."
If it's publically accessed or access is not controlled in some assured
method (i.e. login, etc.) I believe it's true. Last time I checked, I think
if you had say an in-house application (say an accounting package) and each
desktop had a CAL covering it, you'd be covered.

Has this changed?

[color=blue]
>
> --
> David Portas
> SQL Server MVP
> --
>
>[/color]

[Martin Feuersteiner]

Re: device CALs

Hi David

Regarding your answer, do they really expect someone to buy a processor
license for £3,185.00 / US$ 5800 ?? That's not feasable for small sites..

The MSDE 2000A EULA says:
4. NO RENTAL/COMMERCIAL HOSTING. You may not rent, lease, lend or provide
commercial hosting services with the Software.

Does that mean I cannot have a web application using MSDE as a backend
database?
If not, MSDE would be a good solution, given someone can live with the
limitations.

Also, do you know, that's more of a Windos Server 2003 Web Edition question
but goes in the same direction:
Microsoft says it's prohibited to install any applications on the Web
Edition. Does this include MSDE 2000A?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Martin



"David Portas" <REMOVE_BEFORE_ REPLYING_dporta s@acm.org> wrote in message
news:RM6dnYcDYb lGvpzcRVn-jA@giganews.com ...[color=blue]
> For a database that is accessible via a Web application you must use a
> Processor Licence. Device CALs then aren't required.
>
> --
> David Portas
> SQL Server MVP
> --
>
>[/color]

[Andy Fish]

Re: device CALs

"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" <mooregr_delete th1s@greenms.co m> wrote in message news:<FHjMc.570 26$yd5.37453@tw ister.nyroc.rr. com>...[color=blue]
> "David Portas" <REMOVE_BEFORE_ REPLYING_dporta s@acm.org> wrote in message
> news:RM6dnYcDYb lGvpzcRVn-jA@giganews.com ...[color=green]
> > For a database that is accessible via a Web application you must use a
> > Processor Licence. Device CALs then aren't required.[/color]
>
> I'm going to jump in here and say, "I'm not sure that's quite 100% true."
> If it's publically accessed or access is not controlled in some assured
> method (i.e. login, etc.) I believe it's true. Last time I checked, I think
> if you had say an in-house application (say an accounting package) and each
> desktop had a CAL covering it, you'd be covered.
>[/color]

what I'm not sure is what is the definition of a device? why should
each desktop require a CAL when the only "device" (i.e. computer?)
accessing SQL is the web server machine?
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> >
> > --
> > David Portas
> > SQL Server MVP
> > --
> >
> >[/color][/color]

[David Portas]

Re: device CALs

As the responses have shown, licensing questions are a minefield of "What
If?s". If in doubt, consult your vendor or a Microsoft representative.

I believe Greg may be correct that if you have something like a VPN, where
the total number of users in the system is restricted then Server/CAL
licensing may be used.
[color=blue]
> what I'm not sure is what is the definition of a device? why should
> each desktop require a CAL when the only "device" (i.e. computer?)
> accessing SQL is the web server machine?[/color]

Why? Because that's the licensing model that Microsoft sells.

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/howtobuy/

"Regardless of how many tiers of hardware or software exist between the SQL
Server and the client devices that ultimately use its data, services, or
functionality, a CAL is required for each distinct input to the
multiplexing, pooling, or related software or the hardware front end.
Processor licensing will likely be the appropriate licensing option in these
situations, due to its simplicity and affordability."

--
David Portas
SQL Server MVP
--

[David Portas]

Re: device CALs

> Does that mean I cannot have a web application using MSDE as a backend[color=blue]
> database?
> If not, MSDE would be a good solution, given someone can live with the
> limitations.[/color]

"MSDE is an ideal solution for basic Web applications with up to 25
concurrent users."

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/howtobuy/msdeuse.asp

[color=blue]
> Also, do you know, that's more of a Windos Server 2003 Web Edition[/color]
question[color=blue]
> but goes in the same direction:
> Microsoft says it's prohibited to install any applications on the Web
> Edition. Does this include MSDE 2000A?[/color]

I'm not familiar with 2003 Web Ed.

--
David Portas
SQL Server MVP
--

[Martin Feuersteiner]

Re: device CALs

Thanks David!

"David Portas" <REMOVE_BEFORE_ REPLYING_dporta s@acm.org> wrote in message
news:MYydnQo9m7 0duJ_cRVn-rA@giganews.com ...[color=blue][color=green]
> > Does that mean I cannot have a web application using MSDE as a backend
> > database?
> > If not, MSDE would be a good solution, given someone can live with the
> > limitations.[/color]
>
> "MSDE is an ideal solution for basic Web applications with up to 25
> concurrent users."
> http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/howtobuy/msdeuse.asp
>
>[color=green]
> > Also, do you know, that's more of a Windos Server 2003 Web Edition[/color]
> question[color=green]
> > but goes in the same direction:
> > Microsoft says it's prohibited to install any applications on the Web
> > Edition. Does this include MSDE 2000A?[/color]
>
> I'm not familiar with 2003 Web Ed.
>
> --
> David Portas
> SQL Server MVP
> --
>
>[/color]

[Erland Sommarskog]

Re: device CALs

Martin Feuersteiner (theintrepidfox @hotmail.com) writes:[color=blue]
> Also, do you know, that's more of a Windos Server 2003 Web Edition
> question but goes in the same direction: Microsoft says it's prohibited
> to install any applications on the Web Edition. Does this include MSDE
> 2000A?[/color]

You may install MSDE on Windows 2003 Web Edition. That is also the only
edition of SQL Server that you can install on Web Edition.

Since you say that it is not permitted to install applications on Web
Edition, I would guess that it is not permitted to install MSDE on your
Web Edition machine for any other purpose than to be the backend to
your web server.

But for a decisive answer on all licensing questions, it is best to ask
a Microsoft representative.


--
Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarsk og.se

Books Online for SQL Server SP3 at

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/techinfo/productdoc/2000/books.asp

[Andy Fish]

Re: device CALs

"David Portas" <REMOVE_BEFORE_ REPLYING_dporta s@acm.org> wrote in message news:<aI-dnS-uqfrXuZ_cRVn-iQ@giganews.com >...[color=blue]
> As the responses have shown, licensing questions are a minefield of "What
> If?s". If in doubt, consult your vendor or a Microsoft representative.
>
> I believe Greg may be correct that if you have something like a VPN, where
> the total number of users in the system is restricted then Server/CAL
> licensing may be used.
>[color=green]
> > what I'm not sure is what is the definition of a device? why should
> > each desktop require a CAL when the only "device" (i.e. computer?)
> > accessing SQL is the web server machine?[/color]
>
> Why? Because that's the licensing model that Microsoft sells.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/sql/howtobuy/
>
> "Regardless of how many tiers of hardware or software exist between the SQL
> Server and the client devices that ultimately use its data, services, or
> functionality, a CAL is required for each distinct input to the
> multiplexing, pooling, or related software or the hardware front end.
> Processor licensing will likely be the appropriate licensing option in these
> situations, due to its simplicity and affordability."[/color]


Thanks, that's just the bit I was looking for (I wasn't arguing with
the licencing model, just looking for a deifinitive statement)