Commercial Products in Python

[Paulo J. Matos]

Hi all,

I was just wondering, if you wish to commercialize an application
developed in Python, what's the way to go?
I guess the only way is to sell the source, right?

This is because (and tell me if I am wrong):
1) You can't sell an executable because Python doesn't compile to native
code (the usual approach, afaik);
2) You can't sell the bytecode, otherwise you get the client stuck with
a specific python version (given bytecode might vary between versions)
(the alternative);

Cheers,

--
Paulo Jorge Matos - pocmatos at gmail.com
Webpage: http://www.personal.soton.ac.uk/pocm

[Grant Edwards]

Re: Commercial Products in Python

On 2008-10-21, Paulo J. Matos <pocmatos@gmail .comwrote:

Hi all,
>
I was just wondering, if you wish to commercialize an application
developed in Python, what's the way to go?
I guess the only way is to sell the source, right?
>
This is because (and tell me if I am wrong):
1) You can't sell an executable because Python doesn't compile to native
code (the usual approach, afaik);
2) You can't sell the bytecode, otherwise you get the client stuck with
a specific python version (given bytecode might vary between versions)
(the alternative);

You can bundle bytecode with a minimal Python snapshot into an
"applicatio n". Under Windows, it'll be mostly .dll, .zip, and
..exe files, so the customer need not know it's Python at all
(though it's not hard for an experienced person to figure that
out).

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I want you to MEMORIZE
at the collected poems of
visi.com EDNA ST VINCENT MILLAY
... BACKWARDS!!

[Ville M. Vainio]

Re: Commercial Products in Python

"Paulo J. Matos" <pocmatos@gmail .comwrites:

Hi all,
>
I was just wondering, if you wish to commercialize an application
developed in Python, what's the way to go?
I guess the only way is to sell the source, right?

That should be a good way to go about it. It doesn't make it "open
source", you can still bundle the source with a cut-throat license
that does not allow derived products.

1) You can't sell an executable because Python doesn't compile to native
code (the usual approach, afaik);

You can sell py2exe:d package for windows.

[Paulo J. Matos]

Re: Commercial Products in Python

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:

Paulo J. Matos a écrit :

>Hi all,
>>
>I was just wondering, if you wish to commercialize an application
>developed in Python, what's the way to go?
>I guess the only way is to sell the source, right?

>
Nope, why ?
>

>This is because (and tell me if I am wrong):
>1) You can't sell an executable because Python doesn't compile to native
>code (the usual approach, afaik);
>2) You can't sell the bytecode, otherwise you get the client stuck with
>a specific python version (given bytecode might vary between versions)
>(the alternative);

>
This is the case for quite a few languages (VB6 and Java just to name a
few), and it seems like it didn't prevent anyone writing and selling
commercial software written with these languages.
>
--

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

>
>

Truth is I am ignorant as how Java packages are sold. :) About VB I
thought they generate an executable and that is installed on the clients
computer (at least in old VB5, I guess).

Question remains, how would you do it with Python? (I am not saying that
you can't in Python, I just really don't know!)

--
Paulo Jorge Matos - pocmatos at gmail.com
Webpage: http://www.personal.soton.ac.uk/pocm

[Cameron Laird]

Re: Commercial Products in Python

In article <mailman.2776.1 224611437.3487. python-list@python.org >,
Paulo J. Matos <pocmatos@gmail .comwrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I was just wondering, if you wish to commercialize an application
>developed in Python, what's the way to go?
>I guess the only way is to sell the source, right?
>
>This is because (and tell me if I am wrong):
>1) You can't sell an executable because Python doesn't compile to native
>code (the usual approach, afaik);
>2) You can't sell the bytecode, otherwise you get the client stuck with
>a specific python version (given bytecode might vary between versions)
>(the alternative);

[Paulo J. Matos]

Re: Commercial Products in Python

Grant Edwards wrote:

On 2008-10-21, Paulo J. Matos <pocmatos@gmail .comwrote:

>Hi all,
>>
>I was just wondering, if you wish to commercialize an application
>developed in Python, what's the way to go?
>I guess the only way is to sell the source, right?
>>
>This is because (and tell me if I am wrong):
>1) You can't sell an executable because Python doesn't compile to native
>code (the usual approach, afaik);
>2) You can't sell the bytecode, otherwise you get the client stuck with
>a specific python version (given bytecode might vary between versions)
>(the alternative);

>
You can bundle bytecode with a minimal Python snapshot into an
"applicatio n". Under Windows, it'll be mostly .dll, .zip, and
.exe files, so the customer need not know it's Python at all
(though it's not hard for an experienced person to figure that
out).
>

Ah, ok, thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know! :) So, there is an
automatic way of creating a python 'package' that bundles the source
code with a Python snapshot! :) Any reference on how to do that?

Thanks,

--
Paulo Jorge Matos - pocmatos at gmail.com
Webpage: http://www.personal.soton.ac.uk/pocm

[Paulo J. Matos]

Re: Commercial Products in Python

Paulo J. Matos wrote:

Grant Edwards wrote:

>On 2008-10-21, Paulo J. Matos <pocmatos@gmail .comwrote:

>>Hi all,
>>>
>>I was just wondering, if you wish to commercialize an application
>>developed in Python, what's the way to go?
>>I guess the only way is to sell the source, right?
>>>
>>This is because (and tell me if I am wrong):
>>1) You can't sell an executable because Python doesn't compile to native
>>code (the usual approach, afaik);
>>2) You can't sell the bytecode, otherwise you get the client stuck with
>>a specific python version (given bytecode might vary between versions)
>>(the alternative);

>You can bundle bytecode with a minimal Python snapshot into an
>"application ". Under Windows, it'll be mostly .dll, .zip, and
>.exe files, so the customer need not know it's Python at all
>(though it's not hard for an experienced person to figure that
>out).
>>

>
Ah, ok, thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know! :) So, there is an
automatic way of creating a python 'package' that bundles the source
code with a Python snapshot! :) Any reference on how to do that?
>

Question cleared:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/DistributionUtilities

Thanks,
>

--
Paulo Jorge Matos - pocmatos at gmail.com
Webpage: http://www.personal.soton.ac.uk/pocm

[Stef Mientki]

Re: Commercial Products in Python

Paulo J. Matos wrote:

Paulo J. Matos wrote:
>

>Grant Edwards wrote:
>>

>>On 2008-10-21, Paulo J. Matos <pocmatos@gmail .comwrote:
>>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>>
>>>I was just wondering, if you wish to commercialize an application
>>>developed in Python, what's the way to go?
>>>I guess the only way is to sell the source, right?
>>>>
>>>This is because (and tell me if I am wrong):
>>>1) You can't sell an executable because Python doesn't compile to native
>>>code (the usual approach, afaik);
>>>2) You can't sell the bytecode, otherwise you get the client stuck with
>>>a specific python version (given bytecode might vary between versions)
>>>(the alternative);
>>>>
>>You can bundle bytecode with a minimal Python snapshot into an
>>"application" . Under Windows, it'll be mostly .dll, .zip, and
>>.exe files, so the customer need not know it's Python at all
>>(though it's not hard for an experienced person to figure that
>>out).
>>>
>>>

>Ah, ok, thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know! :) So, there is an
>automatic way of creating a python 'package' that bundles the source
>code with a Python snapshot! :) Any reference on how to do that?
>>
>>

>
Question cleared:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/DistributionUtilities

>
>

Which of the programs there makes an "real" executable,
I mean an executable that can't be reversed engineered in less than 2
minutes ?

cheers,
Stef

>Thanks,
>>
>>

>
>
>

[Robert Kern]

Re: Commercial Products in Python

Stef Mientki wrote:

Paulo J. Matos wrote:

>Question cleared:
>http://wiki.python.org/moin/DistributionUtilities
>>

Which of the programs there makes an "real" executable,
I mean an executable that can't be reversed engineered in less than 2
minutes ?

None of them, most likely. That's not the use case they were written for.

--
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
an underlying truth."
-- Umberto Eco

[Grant Edwards]

Re: Commercial Products in Python

On 2008-10-21, Paulo J. Matos <pocmatos@gmail .comwrote:

Grant Edwards wrote:

>On 2008-10-21, Paulo J. Matos <pocmatos@gmail .comwrote:

>>Hi all,
>>>
>>I was just wondering, if you wish to commercialize an application
>>developed in Python, what's the way to go?
>>I guess the only way is to sell the source, right?
>>>
>>This is because (and tell me if I am wrong):
>>1) You can't sell an executable because Python doesn't compile to native
>>code (the usual approach, afaik);
>>2) You can't sell the bytecode, otherwise you get the client stuck with
>>a specific python version (given bytecode might vary between versions)
>>(the alternative);

>>
>You can bundle bytecode with a minimal Python snapshot into an
>"application ". Under Windows, it'll be mostly .dll, .zip, and
>.exe files, so the customer need not know it's Python at all
>(though it's not hard for an experienced person to figure that
>out).
>>

>
Ah, ok, thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know! :) So, there is an
automatic way of creating a python 'package' that bundles the source
code with a Python snapshot! :)

No, one usually bundles bytecode.

Any reference on how to do that?

It's already been posted in this thread.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Why is it that when
at you DIE, you can't take
visi.com your HOME ENTERTAINMENT
CENTER with you??

[Erich]

Re: Commercial Products in Python

On Oct 21, 12:50 pm, "Paulo J. Matos" <pocma...@gmail .comwrote:

Hi all,
>
I was just wondering, if you wish to commercialize an application
developed in Python, what's the way to go?
I guess the only way is to sell the source, right?
>

If this application is a Windows app, and can use .Net, you may wish
to look at how Resolver Systems [1] did it. Their products are written
in IronPython, a python implementation for .Net.

1. http://www.resolversystems.com/products/

Regards,
Erich

[Diez B. Roggisch]

Re: Commercial Products in Python

>>

Which of the programs there makes an "real" executable,
I mean an executable that can't be reversed engineered in less than 2
minutes ?

None. Who cares? I work for a company that produces a C++ application
with quite a few embedded license checks.

The cracks are available a few hours after a release.

It's as simple as this: all you have against piracy are laws.
Ofuscation, compilation - nothing really helps.

Diez

[Paul Boddie]

Re: Commercial Products in Python

On 21 Okt, 19:50, "Paulo J. Matos" <pocma...@gmail .comwrote:

>
I was just wondering, if you wish to commercialize an application
developed in Python, what's the way to go?

See here for some answers:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/HowDoYouProtectSource

As I've already said a few times when answering these kinds of
questions, I've seen proprietary software which incorporated Python
bytecode-only modules, and it merely served up inconvenience to the
user for no practical "secret sauce" benefit to the vendor.

Paul

[azrael]

Re: Commercial Products in Python

Why don't you give a try to IronPython. I began playin with it
yesterday, and as far as I can see, My worries about selling a python
application are gone, so far.







On Oct 22, 12:08 pm, Paul Boddie <p...@boddie.or g.ukwrote:

On 21 Okt, 19:50, "Paulo J. Matos" <pocma...@gmail .comwrote:
>
>
>

I was just wondering, if you wish to commercialize an application
developed in Python, what's the way to go?

>
See here for some answers:
>

http://wiki.python.org/moin/HowDoYouProtectSource

>
As I've already said a few times when answering these kinds of
questions, I've seen proprietary software which incorporated Python
bytecode-only modules, and it merely served up inconvenience to the
user for no practical "secret sauce" benefit to the vendor.
>
Paul

[Diez B. Roggisch]

Re: Commercial Products in Python

azrael schrieb:

Why don't you give a try to IronPython. I began playin with it
yesterday, and as far as I can see, My worries about selling a python
application are gone, so far.

Why? It's byte-compiled as the CPython code, and needs an explicit
interpreter installed. So where is the advantage?

Diez