You advice please

**=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=C1lvaro_G=2E_Vicario=22?=** · Aug 13 '08, 11:55 AM

Re: You advice please

Hussein B escribió:

The sad fact (at least to me), Ruby is getting a lot of attention
these days.
Why Python isn't getting this attention although is a much more mature
language and it is used by many big, big names?
And do I dare to say it is much more charming?

The opinion of a PHP developer who's playing with Python as well:

I've come across Python almost everywhere. Many programs I use (or I've
evaluated) are written in Python or use it for scripting: source control
software (Subversion, Bazaar, Mercurial), IDEs (Komodo Edit), popular
web applications (Zope, Trac)... If you're looking for a script for
admin tasks your search results will probably contain something in
Python. If you want to build a Firefox extension you'll find a *.py file
sitting around.

But I've never came across a Ruby app. Sure, I know Ruby exists and
people are very enthusiastic about it (though they often mistake it with
Ruby on Rails), but that's all.

Ruby is popular among bloggers but I'm not sure whether it's popular
among developers.

--
-- http://alvaro.es - Álvaro G. Vicario - Burgos, Spain
-- Mi sitio sobre programación web: http://bits.demogracia.com
-- Mi web de humor al baño María: http://www.demogracia.com
--

**Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven** · Aug 13 '08, 11:55 AM

Re: You advice please

-On [20080813 13:16], Hussein B (hubaghdadi@gma il.com) wrote:

>My friends are about to open a Ruby/Rails shop and they are asking me
>to join them.

I hope they are fully aware of the scaling problems RoR can have.

>Why Python isn't getting this attention although is a much more mature
>language and it is used by many big, big names?

At least in my experience Python is getting more and more exposure. More
job openings as well.

--
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(-at-)in-nomine.org/ asmodai
ã‚¤ã‚§ãƒ«ãƒ¼ãƒ³ ãƒ©ã‚¦ãƒ•ãƒãƒƒ ã‚¯ ãƒ´ã‚¡ãƒ³ ãƒ‡ãƒ« ã‚¦ã‚§ãƒ«ãƒ´ã‚§ ãƒ³
http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B
A liar needs a good memory...

**Hussein B** · Aug 13 '08, 12:05 PM

Re: You advice please

On Aug 13, 6:51 am, Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmo...@in-
nomine.orgwrote :

-On [20080813 13:16], Hussein B (hubaghd...@gma il.com) wrote:
>

My friends are about to open a Ruby/Rails shop and they are asking me
to join them.

>
I hope they are fully aware of the scaling problems RoR can have.
>

Why Python isn't getting this attention although is a much more mature
language and it is used by many big, big names?

>
At least in my experience Python is getting more and more exposure. More
job openings as well.
>
--
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(-at-)in-nomine.org/ asmodai
$B%$%'%k!<%s( B $B%i%&%U%m%C%/(B $B%t%!%s(B $B%G%k(B $B%&%'%k%t%'%s (Bhttp://www.in-nomine.org/|http://www.rangaku.org/| GPG: 2EAC625B
A liar needs a good memory...

So do you advice me to join them?

**Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven** · Aug 13 '08, 12:15 PM

Re: You advice please

-On [20080813 14:01], Hussein B (hubaghdadi@gma il.com) wrote:

>So do you advice me to join them?

I will never say yes or no to such a question. Such choices are choices only
you can make since you know the whole story.
Personally I found Python nicer than Ruby to program in. And I even started
with Ruby.

I merely commented on the fact that from where you are sitting and looking
you do not see as much Python out there as you see Ruby. I merely provided a
counterpoint that from where I am sitting I am seeing more and more Python
pop up, also for jobs.

--
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(-at-)in-nomine.org/ asmodai
ã‚¤ã‚§ãƒ«ãƒ¼ãƒ³ ãƒ©ã‚¦ãƒ•ãƒãƒƒ ã‚¯ ãƒ´ã‚¡ãƒ³ ãƒ‡ãƒ« ã‚¦ã‚§ãƒ«ãƒ´ã‚§ ãƒ³
http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B
No cord or cable can draw so forcibly, or bind so fast, as love can do
with a single thread...

**Bruno Desthuilliers** · Aug 13 '08, 12:45 PM

Re: You advice please

Álvaro G. Vicario a écrit :

Hussein B escribió:

>The sad fact (at least to me), Ruby is getting a lot of attention
>these days.
>Why Python isn't getting this attention although is a much more mature
>language and it is used by many big, big names?
>And do I dare to say it is much more charming?

>
The opinion of a PHP developer who's playing with Python as well:
>
I've come across Python almost everywhere. Many programs I use (or I've
evaluated) are written in Python or use it for scripting: source control
software (Subversion, Bazaar, Mercurial), IDEs (Komodo Edit), popular
web applications (Zope, Trac)... If you're looking for a script for
admin tasks your search results will probably contain something in
Python. If you want to build a Firefox extension you'll find a *.py file
sitting around.
>
But I've never came across a Ruby app. Sure, I know Ruby exists and
people are very enthusiastic about it (though they often mistake it with
Ruby on Rails), but that's all.

Redmine is a nice alternative to Trac. And Twitter is certainly a
well-known app too. (Yes, RoR apps in both cases...).

Ruby is popular among bloggers but I'm not sure whether it's popular
among developers.

Almost as much as Python, I'd say. But both languages fight for the same
niches in languages/techno ecosystem, and Python, being older, tend to
get more visibility.

**Hussein B** · Aug 13 '08, 12:55 PM

Re: You advice please

On Aug 13, 7:40 am, Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.
42.desthuilli.. .@websiteburo.i nvalidwrote:

Álvaro G. Vicario a écrit :
>
>
>

Hussein B escribió:

The sad fact (at least to me), Ruby is getting a lot of attention
these days.
Why Python isn't getting this attention although is a much more mature
language and it is used by many big, big names?
And do I dare to say it is much more charming?

>

The opinion of a PHP developer who's playing with Python as well:

>

I've come across Python almost everywhere. Many programs I use (or I've
evaluated) are written in Python or use it for scripting: source control
software (Subversion, Bazaar, Mercurial), IDEs (Komodo Edit), popular
web applications (Zope, Trac)... If you're looking for a script for
admin tasks your search results will probably contain something in
Python. If you want to build a Firefox extension you'll find a *.py file
sitting around.

>

But I've never came across a Ruby app. Sure, I know Ruby exists and
people are very enthusiastic about it (though they often mistake it with
Ruby on Rails), but that's all.

>
Redmine is a nice alternative to Trac. And Twitter is certainly a
well-known app too. (Yes, RoR apps in both cases...).
>

Ruby is popular among bloggers but I'm not sure whether it's popular
among developers.

>
Almost as much as Python, I'd say. But both languages fight for the same
niches in languages/techno ecosystem, and Python, being older, tend to
get more visibility.

But Twitter is suffering from sever scaling problems, I read it maybe
will be reimplemented in Java ...

**Bruno Desthuilliers** · Aug 13 '08, 12:55 PM

Re: You advice please

Hussein B a écrit :

Hey,
I'm a Java/Java EE developer and I'm playing with Python these days.
I like the Python language so much and I like its communities and the
Django framework.
My friends are about to open a Ruby/Rails shop and they are asking me
to join them.
I don't know what, sure I'm not leaving Java, but they are asking me
to stop learning Python and concentrate on Ruby/Rails.
The sad fact (at least to me), Ruby is getting a lot of attention
these days.
Why Python isn't getting this attention although is a much more mature
language and it is used by many big, big names?

RoR peoples are good at marketing. And Ruby's object model is probably
less alien - at least at first sight - to the Java crowd than Python's
object model is.

But still, Python seems to get some serious exposure - at least outside
of the Java world - these last monthes.

And do I dare to say it is much more charming?
What do you think of Ruby/Rails? do they worth learning and working
with?

Both are certainly worth learning. I can't tell about the "working with"
part since I never used any of them for anything serious.

Any way, I'm not leaving Python and I will try to study it every time
I get a chance...
Thanks.

**Hussein B** · Aug 13 '08, 01:05 PM

Re: You advice please

On Aug 13, 7:50 am, Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.
42.desthuilli.. .@websiteburo.i nvalidwrote:

Hussein B a écrit :
>

Hey,
I'm a Java/Java EE developer and I'm playing with Python these days.
I like the Python language so much and I like its communities and the
Django framework.
My friends are about to open a Ruby/Rails shop and they are asking me
to join them.
I don't know what, sure I'm not leaving Java, but they are asking me
to stop learning Python and concentrate on Ruby/Rails.
The sad fact (at least to me), Ruby is getting a lot of attention
these days.
Why Python isn't getting this attention although is a much more mature
language and it is used by many big, big names?

>
RoR peoples are good at marketing. And Ruby's object model is probably
less alien - at least at first sight - to the Java crowd than Python's
object model is.
>
But still, Python seems to get some serious exposure - at least outside
of the Java world - these last monthes.
>

And do I dare to say it is much more charming?
What do you think of Ruby/Rails? do they worth learning and working
with?

>
Both are certainly worth learning. I can't tell about the "working with"
part since I never used any of them for anything serious.
>

Any way, I'm not leaving Python and I will try to study it every time
I get a chance...
Thanks.

Personally, I don't like the RoR framework at all.
It doesn't come with any thing new or revolutionary, they just take
the hard lessons from the Java web applications world.
I think Ruby was a dead language and RoR gave it a life kiss.

**Bruno Desthuilliers** · Aug 13 '08, 01:15 PM

Re: You advice please

Hussein B a écrit :
(snip)

>
Personally, I don't like the RoR framework at all.
It doesn't come with any thing new or revolutionary,

You could say the same about Python and about Django. None of them come
with anything new or revolutionary. And both have warts too.

they just take
the hard lessons from the Java web applications world.
I think Ruby was a dead language and RoR gave it a life kiss.

Ruby was a "slowly growing" language (wrt/ exposure at least) before
Rails became the new buzz in town. But it was certainly not "dead".

**D'Arcy J.M. Cain** · Aug 13 '08, 03:05 PM

Re: You advice please

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:47:58 +0200
"Álvaro G. Vicario" <alvaroNOSPAMTH ANKS@demogracia .comwrote:

But I've never came across a Ruby app. Sure, I know Ruby exists and
people are very enthusiastic about it (though they often mistake it with
Ruby on Rails), but that's all.

Ruby is popular among bloggers but I'm not sure whether it's popular
among developers.

Well, I just attended the Agile 2008 conference and sadly Ruby seemed
to be much more popular than Python. I found people who had heard of
Python and were thinking of trying it but developers were working in
Java, C++ and Ruby.

Of course, I didn't talk to every one of the 1500 delegates.

--
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@druid.ne t | Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.

**Nigel Rantor** · Aug 13 '08, 03:25 PM

Re: You advice please

Calvin Spealman wrote:

Ruby (on Rails) people love to talk about Ruby (on Rails).
>
Python people are too busy getting things done to talk as loudly.

Have you read this list?

I would suggest your comment indicates not.

Throwaway comments like yours that are pithy, emotional and devoid of
any factual content are just the kind of thing that makes lists such as
this less useful than they could be.

You are acting as a source of noise, not signal. I'm sure you don't want
to be considered in that manner, so perhaps you should think about
adding something to the conversation instead.

Before you reply please think about what you plan on saying, you'll be
helping not only me but yourself and anyone who reads your post.

n

**Ken Starks** · Aug 13 '08, 03:45 PM

Re: You advice please

Hussein B wrote:

Hey,
I'm a Java/Java EE developer and I'm playing with Python these days.
I like the Python language so much and I like its communities and the
Django framework.
My friends are about to open a Ruby/Rails shop and they are asking me
to join them.
I don't know what, sure I'm not leaving Java, but they are asking me
to stop learning Python and concentrate on Ruby/Rails.
The sad fact (at least to me), Ruby is getting a lot of attention
these days.
Why Python isn't getting this attention although is a much more mature
language and it is used by many big, big names?
And do I dare to say it is much more charming?
What do you think of Ruby/Rails? do they worth learning and working
with?
Any way, I'm not leaving Python and I will try to study it every time
I get a chance...
Thanks.

On the whole, I think python gets more attention, but that doesn't
not mean you should ignore Ruby, at least to a 'dabble-in' level.
To me, the main reason for learning ruby is because it is the
scripting language for Google sketchup.

And now it looks as if I shall wish to learn another little language, at
least to 'dabble-in' level: Lua, because it is going to srcipt a new
variation in the TeX world.

But neither has a cat-in-hell's chance of replacing python anytime
soon, as far as I am concerned.

**Calvin Spealman** · Aug 13 '08, 03:45 PM

Re: You advice please

God forbid I try to make a joke.

On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Nigel Rantor <wiggly@wiggly. orgwrote:

Calvin Spealman wrote:

>>
>Ruby (on Rails) people love to talk about Ruby (on Rails).
>>
>Python people are too busy getting things done to talk as loudly.

>
Have you read this list?
>
I would suggest your comment indicates not.
>
Throwaway comments like yours that are pithy, emotional and devoid of any
factual content are just the kind of thing that makes lists such as this
less useful than they could be.
>
You are acting as a source of noise, not signal. I'm sure you don't want to
be considered in that manner, so perhaps you should think about adding
something to the conversation instead.
>
Before you reply please think about what you plan on saying, you'll be
helping not only me but yourself and anyone who reads your post.
>
n
>

--
Read my blog! I depend on your acceptance of my opinion! I am interesting!

http://techblog.ironfroggy.com/

Follow me if you're into that sort of thing: http://www.twitter.com/ironfroggy

**Fredrik Lundh** · Aug 13 '08, 03:45 PM

Re: You advice please

Nigel Rantor wrote:

Throwaway comments like yours that are pithy, emotional and devoid of
any factual content are just the kind of thing that makes lists such as
this less useful than they could be.

Oh, please. It's a fact that Python advocacy is a lot more low-key than
the advocacy of certain potentially competing technologies. It's always
been that way. Too many Europeans involved, most likely.

Have you read this list?
>
I would suggest your comment indicates not.

This list is a Python forum. Calvin (who's a long time contributor to
this forum, which you would have known if you'd actually followed the
list for some time) was talking about the real world.

</F>

You advice please

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