Web Crawler - Python or Perl?

[disappearedng@gmail.com]

Hi all,
I am currently planning to write my own web crawler. I know Python but
not Perl, and I am interested in knowing which of these two are a
better choice given the following scenario:

1) I/O issues: my biggest constraint in terms of resource will be
bandwidth throttle neck.
2) Efficiency issues: The crawlers have to be fast, robust and as
"memory efficient" as possible. I am running all of my crawlers on
cheap pcs with about 500 mb RAM and P3 to P4 processors
3) Compatibility issues: Most of these crawlers will run on Unix
(FreeBSD), so there should exist a pretty good compiler that can
optimize my code these under the environments.

What are your opinions?

[subeen]

Re: Web Crawler - Python or Perl?

On Jun 9, 11:48 pm, disappeare...@g mail.com wrote:

Hi all,
I am currently planning to write my own web crawler. I know Python but
not Perl, and I am interested in knowing which of these two are a
better choice given the following scenario:
>
1) I/O issues: my biggest constraint in terms of resource will be
bandwidth throttle neck.
2) Efficiency issues: The crawlers have to be fast, robust and as
"memory efficient" as possible. I am running all of my crawlers on
cheap pcs with about 500 mb RAM and P3 to P4 processors
3) Compatibility issues: Most of these crawlers will run on Unix
(FreeBSD), so there should exist a pretty good compiler that can
optimize my code these under the environments.
>
What are your opinions?

It really doesn't matter whether you use Perl or Python for writing
web crawlers. I have used both for writing crawlers. The scenarios you
mentioned (I/O issues, Efficiency, Compatibility) don't differ two
much for these two languages. Both the languages have fast I/O. You
can use urllib2 module and/or beautiful soup for developing crawler in
Python. For Perl you can use Mechanize or LWP modules. Both languages
have good support for regular expressions. Perl is slightly faster I
have heard, though I don't find the difference myself. Both are
compatible with *nix. For writing a good crawler, language is not
important, it's the technology which is important.

regards,
Subeen.

http://love-python.blogspot.com/

[Stefan Behnel]

Re: Web Crawler - Python or Perl?

disappearedng@g mail.com wrote:

1) I/O issues: my biggest constraint in terms of resource will be
bandwidth throttle neck.
2) Efficiency issues: The crawlers have to be fast, robust and as
"memory efficient" as possible. I am running all of my crawlers on
cheap pcs with about 500 mb RAM and P3 to P4 processors
3) Compatibility issues: Most of these crawlers will run on Unix
(FreeBSD), so there should exist a pretty good compiler that can
optimize my code these under the environments.

You should rethink your requirements. You expect to be I/O bound, so why do
you require a good "compiler"? Especially when asking about two interpreted
languages...

Consider using lxml (with Python), it has pretty much everything you need for
a web crawler, supports threaded parsing directly from HTTP URLs, and it's
plenty fast and pretty memory efficient.

http://codespeak.net/lxml/

Stefan

[Stefan Behnel]

Re: Web Crawler - Python or Perl?

subeen wrote:

can use urllib2 module and/or beautiful soup for developing crawler

Not if you care about a) speed and/or b) memory efficiency.

http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/03/30/python-html-parser-performance/

Stefan

[subeen]

Re: Web Crawler - Python or Perl?

On Jun 10, 12:15 am, Stefan Behnel <stefan...@behn el.dewrote:

subeen wrote:

can use urllib2 module and/or beautiful soup for developing crawler

>
Not if you care about a) speed and/or b) memory efficiency.
>

http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/03/30/python-html-parser-performance/

>
Stefan

ya, beautiful soup is slower. so it's better to use urllib2 for
fetching data and regular expressions for parsing data.


regards,
Subeen.

http://love-python.blogspot.com/

[Ray Cote]

Re: Web Crawler - Python or Perl?

At 11:21 AM -0700 6/9/08, subeen wrote:

>On Jun 10, 12:15 am, Stefan Behnel <stefan...@behn el.dewrote:

> subeen wrote:

> can use urllib2 module and/or beautiful soup for developing crawler

>>
> Not if you care about a) speed and/or b) memory efficiency.
>>

http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/03/30/python-html-parser-performance/

>>
> Stefan

>
>ya, beautiful soup is slower. so it's better to use urllib2 for
>fetching data and regular expressions for parsing data.
>
>
>regards,
>Subeen.
>http://love-python.blogspot.com/
>--
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Beautiful Soup is a bit slower, but it will actually parse some of
the bizarre HTML you'll download off the web. We've written a couple
of crawlers to run over specific clients sites (I note, we did _not_
create the content on these sites).

Expect to find html code that looks like this:

<ul>
<li>
<form>
</li>
</form>
</ul>
[from a real example, and yes, it did indeed render in IE.]

I don't know if some of the quicker parsers discussed require
well-formed HTML since I've not used them. You may want to consider
using one of the quicker HTML parsers and, when they throw a fit on
the downloaded HTML, drop back to Beautiful Soup -- which usually
gets _something_ useful off the page.

--Ray

--

Raymond Cote
Appropriate Solutions, Inc.
PO Box 458 ~ Peterborough, NH 03458-0458
Phone: 603.924.6079 ~ Fax: 603.924.8668
rgacote(at)Appr opriateSolution s.com

https://www.AppropriateSolutions.com

[Sebastian \lunar\ Wiesner]

Re: Web Crawler - Python or Perl?

subeen <tamim.shahriar @gmail.comat Montag 09 Juni 2008 20:21:

On Jun 10, 12:15 am, Stefan Behnel <stefan...@behn el.dewrote:

>subeen wrote:

can use urllib2 module and/or beautiful soup for developing crawler

>>
>Not if you care about a) speed and/or b) memory efficiency.
>>
>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/03/3...r-performance/
>>
>Stefan

>
ya, beautiful soup is slower. so it's better to use urllib2 for
fetching data and regular expressions for parsing data.

BeautifulSoup is implemented on regular expressions. I doubt, that you can
achieve a great performance gain by using plain regular expressions, and
even if, this gain is certainly not worth the effort. Parsing markup with
regular expressions is hard, and the result will most likely not be as fast
and as memory-efficient as lxml.html.

I personally am absolutely happy with lxml.html. It's fast, memory
efficient, yet powerful and easy to use.

--
Freedom is always the freedom of dissenters.
(Rosa Luxemburg)

[Nick Craig-Wood]

Re: Web Crawler - Python or Perl?

disappearedng@g mail.com <disappearedng@ gmail.comwrote:

I am currently planning to write my own web crawler. I know Python but
not Perl, and I am interested in knowing which of these two are a
better choice given the following scenario:
>
1) I/O issues: my biggest constraint in terms of resource will be
bandwidth throttle neck.
2) Efficiency issues: The crawlers have to be fast, robust and as
"memory efficient" as possible. I am running all of my crawlers on
cheap pcs with about 500 mb RAM and P3 to P4 processors
3) Compatibility issues: Most of these crawlers will run on Unix
(FreeBSD), so there should exist a pretty good compiler that can
optimize my code these under the environments.
>
What are your opinions?

Use python with twisted.

With a friend I wrote a crawler. Our first attempt was standard
python. Our second attempt was with twisted. Twisted absolutely blew
the socks off our first attempt - mainly because you can fetch 100s or
1000s of pages simultaneously, without threads.

Python with twisted will satisfy 1-3. You'll have to get your head
around its asynchronous nature, but once you do you'll be writing a
killer crawler ;-)

As for Perl - once upon a time I would have done this with perl, but I
wouldn't go back now!

--
Nick Craig-Wood <nick@craig-wood.com-- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick

[Stefan Behnel]

Re: Web Crawler - Python or Perl?

Ray Cote wrote:

Beautiful Soup is a bit slower, but it will actually parse some of the
bizarre HTML you'll download off the web.

[...]

I don't know if some of the quicker parsers discussed require
well-formed HTML since I've not used them. You may want to consider
using one of the quicker HTML parsers and, when they throw a fit on the
downloaded HTML, drop back to Beautiful Soup -- which usually gets
_something_ useful off the page.

So does lxml.html. And if you still feel like needing BS once in a while,
there's lxml.html.soupp arser.

http://codespeak.net/lxml/elementsoup.html

Stefan

[disappearedng@gmail.com]

Re: Web Crawler - Python or Perl?

As to why as opposed to what, I am attempting to build a search engine
right now that plans to crawl not just html but other things too.

I am open to learning, and I don't want to learn anything that doesn't
really contribute to building my search engine for the moment. Hence I
want to see whether learning PERL will be helpful to the later parts
of my search engine.

Victor

[Stefan Behnel]

Re: Web Crawler - Python or Perl?

disappearedng@g mail.com wrote:

As to why as opposed to what, I am attempting to build a search engine
right now that plans to crawl not just html but other things too.
>
I am open to learning, and I don't want to learn anything that doesn't
really contribute to building my search engine for the moment. Hence I
want to see whether learning PERL will be helpful to the later parts
of my search engine.

I honestly don't think there's anything useful in Perl that you can't do in
Python. There's tons of ugly ways to write unreadable code, though, so if you
prefer that, that's something that's harder to do in Python.

Stefan

[Chuck Rhode]

Re: Web Crawler - Python or Perl?

On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:48:03 -0700, disappearedng wrote:

I know Python but not Perl, and I am interested in knowing which of
these two are a better choice.

I'm partial to *Python*, but, the last time I looked, *urllib2* didn't
provide a time-out mechanism that worked under all circumstances. My
client-side scripts would usually hang when the server quit
responding, which happened a lot.

You can get around this by starting an *html* retrieval in its own
thread, giving it a deadline, and killing it if it doesn't finish
gracefully.

A quicker and considerably grittier solution is to supply timeout
parms to the *curl* command through the shell. Execute the command
and retrieve its output through the *subprocess* module.

--
... Chuck Rhode, Sheboygan, WI, USA
... 1979 Honda Goldwing GL1000 (Geraldine)
... Weather: http://LacusVeris.com/WX
... 64° — Wind SE 5 mph — Sky partly cloudy.

[subeen]

Re: Web Crawler - Python or Perl?

On Jun 13, 1:26 am, Chuck Rhode <CRh...@LacusVe ris.comwrote:

On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:48:03 -0700, disappearedng wrote:

I knowPythonbut notPerl, and I am interested in knowing which of
these two are a better choice.

>
I'm partial to *Python*, but, the last time I looked, *urllib2* didn't
provide a time-out mechanism that worked under all circumstances. My
client-side scripts would usually hang when the server quit
responding, which happened a lot.
>

You can avoid the problem using the following code:
import socket

timeout = 300 # seconds
socket.setdefau lttimeout(timeo ut)

regards,
Subeen.

http://love-python.blogspot.com/