(Modular-)Application Framework / Rich-Client-Platform in Python

[Wildemar Wildenburger]

To make it short: Is there something like this already?

There seem to loads of python frameworks for Web-Apps, but I have a hard
time finding one for desktop-apps.
I imagine it wouldn't be too hard (if still time consuming) whipping up
something simple myself, but I thought, I'd ask here before diving into it.

greets
wildemar

[memracom@yahoo.com]

Re: (Modular-)Application Framework / Rich-Client-Platform in Python

There seem to loads of python frameworks for Web-Apps, but I have a hard

time finding one for desktop-apps.
I imagine it wouldn't be too hard (if still time consuming) whipping up
something simple myself, but I thought, I'd ask here before diving into it.

Sounds like you should look at DABO

http://dabodev.com/

But remember, that by combining something like YUI with any WSGI
framework and a Python web server (PASTE, FAPWS) you can use a web
browser as the client for an application that runs on the same
computer.

[Wildemar Wildenburger]

Re: (Modular-)Application Framework / Rich-Client-Platform in Python

memracom@yahoo. com wrote:

>There seem to loads of python frameworks for Web-Apps, but I have a hard
>time finding one for desktop-apps.
>I imagine it wouldn't be too hard (if still time consuming) whipping up
>something simple myself, but I thought, I'd ask here before diving into it.
>>

>
Sounds like you should look at DABO

http://dabodev.com/

>

Thanks, just glanced over it and as I expected, DABO seems a bit much.
But then again, I should have made my point clearer in the first place.
I'm looking for something like the eclipse plugin kernel. Just a simple
module that allows for easy loading and unloading of discrete bits of
functionality. That doesn't seem to be the objective of DABO (correct me
if I'm wrong).

But remember, that by combining something like YUI with any WSGI
framework and a Python web server (PASTE, FAPWS) you can use a web
browser as the client for an application that runs on the same
computer.
>

Though I like the idea of distibuted applications, I want to write an
app (a couple of, actually) targeted at the home user that sets up the
software herself/himself. So this might get a bit to complicated for Joe
Schmoe.
Secondly, I'm going for apps that don't quite adhere to the "form"
metaphor of most software (specifically DB-apps). I think doing
"unusual" UI features might get a bit messy when done with web
technology. I have thought about an actionsctipt-based approach, but I'd
very much like to try it with python first.


thx for the ideas, still. :)
W

[Jarek Zgoda]

Re: (Modular-)Application Framework / Rich-Client-Platform in Python

Wildemar Wildenburger napisa³(a):

To make it short: Is there something like this already?
>
There seem to loads of python frameworks for Web-Apps, but I have a hard
time finding one for desktop-apps.
I imagine it wouldn't be too hard (if still time consuming) whipping up
something simple myself, but I thought, I'd ask here before diving into it.

There are few GUI frameworks building on various toolkits. I used to use
Kiwi for PyGTK, it's mature and stable, although the approach is not the
same as, for example, Delphi.

--
Jarek Zgoda

"We read Knuth so you don't have to."

[Wildemar Wildenburger]

Re: (Modular-)Application Framework / Rich-Client-Platform in Python

Jarek Zgoda wrote:

There are few GUI frameworks building on various toolkits. I used to use
Kiwi for PyGTK, it's mature and stable, although the approach is not the
same as, for example, Delphi

Thanks for the effort, but I think I'm not well understood. I'm not
looking for a GUI framework (which, by the way, is most likely to be
wxPython), but for a pure plugin architecture. A rich-client-platform,
as it is sometimes called. Nothing specific about anythin in particular,
just something that runs plugins. Like Eclipse does these days.

It's beginning to dawn on me that I'll have to cook something up myself.
*grumble*
;)

W

[Jarek Zgoda]

Re: (Modular-)Application Framework / Rich-Client-Platform in Python

Wildemar Wildenburger napisa³(a):

>There are few GUI frameworks building on various toolkits. I used to use
>Kiwi for PyGTK, it's mature and stable, although the approach is not the
>same as, for example, Delphi

Thanks for the effort, but I think I'm not well understood. I'm not
looking for a GUI framework (which, by the way, is most likely to be
wxPython), but for a pure plugin architecture. A rich-client-platform,
as it is sometimes called. Nothing specific about anythin in particular,
just something that runs plugins. Like Eclipse does these days.

I know what is Eclipse RCP. The world would be much better place to live
if we had something similar. :)

Many applications employ "plugin framework"-like things and in Python
this is specially easy to do, but I saw none that is built as one big
plugin framework. The one that mostly resembles such approach is PIDA
(http://www.pida.co.uk/), which is built around the concept of pluggable
views and services, but again, this is far from Eclipse RCP.

--
Jarek Zgoda

"We read Knuth so you don't have to."

[Ben Finney]

Re: (Modular-)Application Framework / Rich-Client-Platform in Python

Wildemar Wildenburger <wildemar@freak mail.dewrites:

Thanks for the effort, but I think I'm not well understood. I'm not
looking for a GUI framework (which, by the way, is most likely to be
wxPython), but for a pure plugin architecture. A
rich-client-platform, as it is sometimes called. Nothing specific
about anythin in particular, just something that runs plugins. Like
Eclipse does these days.

I've never used Eclipse (beyond proving that it runs on various
computers). Can you please describe what behaviour you're looking for?

"Just runs plugins" is very vague, and would seem to be satisfied on
the face of it by loading Python modules. If there's something more
specific, you'll have to specify.

--
\ "I hope if dogs ever take over the world, and they chose a |
`\ king, they don't just go by size, because I bet there are some |
_o__) Chihuahuas with some good ideas." -- Jack Handey |
Ben Finney

[Jarek Zgoda]

Re: (Modular-)Application Framework / Rich-Client-Platform in Python

Ben Finney napisa³(a):

>Thanks for the effort, but I think I'm not well understood. I'm not
>looking for a GUI framework (which, by the way, is most likely to be
>wxPython), but for a pure plugin architecture. A
>rich-client-platform, as it is sometimes called. Nothing specific
>about anythin in particular, just something that runs plugins. Like
>Eclipse does these days.

>
I've never used Eclipse (beyond proving that it runs on various
computers). Can you please describe what behaviour you're looking for?

The key is not "Eclipse" itself, but the whole Eclipse Platform.

See http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/Rich_Client_Platform

--
Jarek Zgoda

"We read Knuth so you don't have to."

[stefaan]

Re: (Modular-)Application Framework / Rich-Client-Platform in Python

To make it short: Is there something like this already?

To keep it short: yes.
To make it longer: not sure about its status... i've never tried it
myself.
To make it short again: http://code.enthought.com/ets/

I also know some people are trying to create something called pyxides,
but
also there I am not sure about the status: http://pyxides.stani.be/

Best regards,
Stefaan.

[Wildemar Wildenburger]

Re: (Modular-)Application Framework / Rich-Client-Platform in Python

Jarek Zgoda wrote:

>I've never used Eclipse (beyond proving that it runs on various
>computers). Can you please describe what behaviour you're looking for?
>>

>
The key is not "Eclipse" itself, but the whole Eclipse Platform.
>
See http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/Rich_Client_Platform
>

Thank you for helping me out here. I'd just gone on and on about what my
conception of a RCP is. I think that link just about clarifies it.

W

[Wildemar Wildenburger]

Re: (Modular-)Application Framework / Rich-Client-Platform in Python

stefaan wrote:

>To make it short: Is there something like this already?

>
To make it short again: http://code.enthought.com/ets/
>
>

Nice, seems very interesting. Bit of a bitch to set up, as it appears
from scanning the site, but that might be it.
Thanks :)

Now for the everlasting circle of evaluating, feature-wanting,
to-write-myself-deciding, failing, for-the-next-big-idea-waiting,
asking, evaluationg, ...

;)

I also know some people are trying to create something called pyxides,
but
also there I am not sure about the status: http://pyxides.stani.be/
>

Seems interesting as well, if only for the fact that Edward Ream (author
of LEO) seems to be involved there in some way. But then, I can't quite
make out what it is really about. The link just brings me to the
google-group. Seems to be some kind of text-editor effort. I'll keep an
eye on that, but so far, enthought is the front runner.

Thx to everyone :)
W

[Stef Mientki]

Re: (Modular-)Application Framework / Rich-Client-Platform in Python

Wildemar Wildenburger wrote:

Jarek Zgoda wrote:

>There are few GUI frameworks building on various toolkits. I used to use
>Kiwi for PyGTK, it's mature and stable, although the approach is not the
>same as, for example, Delphi

Thanks for the effort, but I think I'm not well understood. I'm not
looking for a GUI framework (which, by the way, is most likely to be
wxPython), but for a pure plugin architecture. A rich-client-platform,
as it is sometimes called. Nothing specific about anythin in particular,
just something that runs plugins. Like Eclipse does these days.
>
It's beginning to dawn on me that I'll have to cook something up myself.
*grumble*
;)
>
W

I took a look at Eclipse page you mentioned but after reading the first page I still don't
understand what you mean (and I never read beyond the first page ;-).
With a plugin system, I can think of a complete operating system,
or I can think of something like a DTP, or simply Word,
or I can think of something like Signal WorkBench
etc.

I think if you don't express what all of the tasks of that framework will be,
it's not well possible to create one.

Do you want just launching of applications, or do they have to communicate,
exchange data, launch each other, create together one document or more general control one process,
and lots of more questions ;-)

cheers,
Stef Mientki

[Peter Wang]

Re: (Modular-)Application Framework / Rich-Client-Platform in Python

On May 18, 10:15 am, Wildemar Wildenburger <wilde...@freak mail.de>
wrote:

stefaan wrote:

To make it short again:http://code.enthought.com/ets/

>
Nice, seems very interesting. Bit of a bitch to set up, as it appears
from scanning the site, but that might be it.

Actually, just this week, we completed a major SVN reorganization and
from this point forward, all of the libraries in ETS will be released
as eggs. In fact, eggs have been available for a long time for python
2.4, and now we have them for python 2.5 as well.

The "Eclipse in python" you're looking for is actually called
Envisage, and it is part of ETS: https://svn.enthought.com/enthought/wiki/Envisage

The "Dev Guide" has some tutorials etc.: https://svn.enthought.com/enthought/...visageDevGuide

Note that Envisage != ETS. "ETS" is the term for the whole bundle of
various Enthought libraries, including Traits, Chaco, Pyface, etc.
Envisage does require some of these others (notably Traits and
Pyface), but they are all available as eggs.

Now for the everlasting circle of evaluating, feature-wanting,
to-write-myself-deciding, failing, for-the-next-big-idea-waiting,
asking, evaluationg, ...

Chime in on the mailing list if you have any questions. It's pretty
active and many people on it have lots of experience with Envisage.


-Peter

[Kirk Job Sluder]

Re: (Modular-)Application Framework / Rich-Client-Platform in Python

Stef Mientki <S.Mientki-nospam@mailbox. kun.nlwrites:

I took a look at Eclipse page you mentioned but after reading the
first page I still don't understand what you mean (and I never read
beyond the first page ;-).
With a plugin system, I can think of a complete operating system,
or I can think of something like a DTP, or simply Word,
or I can think of something like Signal WorkBench
etc.

The approach taken by Eclipse is exactly like that taken by emacs so
many years ago of creating a minimalist framework that offers a bare
bones user interface and services for running libraries. Everything
else is a plug-in library that changes the behavior of that interface.
So if you want an editor for language "foo," you would customize a
"view" interface to display foo objects, and an "editor" interface to
display and modify "foo" text. You might customize other "view"
objects to display documentation, compilation, and debugging
information.

(The fact that Eclipse and emacs are both rather lean programs is
obsucred by the sheer quantity of plug-ins that have become a part
of the standard installation.)

cheers,
Stef Mientki
>
>

--
Kirk Job Sluder

[Wildemar Wildenburger]

Re: (Modular-)Application Framework / Rich-Client-Platform in Python

Stef Mientki wrote:

I took a look at Eclipse page you mentioned but after reading the first page I still don't
understand what you mean (and I never read beyond the first page ;-).
>

Well, what can I say ...
;)

With a plugin system, I can think of a complete operating system,
or I can think of something like a DTP, or simply Word,
or I can think of something like Signal WorkBench
etc.
>

Yes exactly. As I said: Nothing in particular. Just an environment that
loads and unloads little bits if functionality, whatever those may be.
I think what most people think of when they hear "plugin" is: An
Application that can be extended.
An RCP provides no more than the next step: No monolithic app, just
plugins (which can have plugins themselves (which can have plugins
themselves (which ...))). Write a text editor component and use it in
your music-sequencer that also monitors your internet-activity, if you must.

I think if you don't express what all of the tasks of that framework will be,
it's not well possible to create one.
>
>

Oh, but it is! Eclipse is such a framework. Pitty is, it's written in
Java. ;)

Do you want just launching of applications, or do they have to communicate,
exchange data, launch each other, create together one document or more general control one process,
and lots of more questions ;-)
>

Who knows? Thats the beauty of it. Eclipse has been conceived as an
IDE/Text-Editor. But now it is just a platform for others to build
plugins for. Such as an IDE. There are plans to make an eclipse-based
general PIM (called Haystack, I think). The concept is very simple, but
for some reason, highly unusual at present. I'm pretty sure that this
will change sooner or later.