Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

**Pascal Costanza** · May 2 '07, 07:25 PM

Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

sturlamolden wrote:

On Monday Microsoft announced a new runtime for dynamic languages,
which they call "DLR". It sits on top of the conventional .NET runtime
(CLR) and provides services for dynamically typed languages like
Python or Lisp (thus the cross-posting). Apparently is is distributed
under a BSD-like open-source license.
>
I am curious to know how it performs in comparison to CPython and an
efficient compiled Lisp like CMUCL. Speed is a major problem with
CPython but not with .NET or CMUCL, so it will be interesting to see
how the DLR performs in comparison. It would be great to finally see a
Python that runs on steroids, but knowing M$ bloatware my expectations
are not too high.
>
Has anyone looked at the DLR yet? What are your impression?

So far, there is not a lot of information available. The only statement
about the technology I have read so far is that the DLR is a thin layer
on top of the CLR. This doesn't say a lot.

So it's hard to tell whether this is a (good) marketing stunt or whether
there are actual substantial improvement to the infrastructure.

Pascal

--
My website: http://p-cos.net
Common Lisp Document Repository: http://cdr.eurolisp.org
Closer to MOP & ContextL: http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/

**kyosohma@gmail.com** · May 2 '07, 07:35 PM

Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

On May 2, 1:22 pm, sturlamolden <sturlamol...@y ahoo.nowrote:

On Monday Microsoft announced a new runtime for dynamic languages,
which they call "DLR". It sits on top of the conventional .NET runtime
(CLR) and provides services for dynamically typed languages like
Python or Lisp (thus the cross-posting). Apparently is is distributed
under a BSD-like open-source license.
>
I am curious to know how it performs in comparison to CPython and an
efficient compiled Lisp like CMUCL. Speed is a major problem with
CPython but not with .NET or CMUCL, so it will be interesting to see
how the DLR performs in comparison. It would be great to finally see a
Python that runs on steroids, but knowing M$ bloatware my expectations
are not too high.
>
Has anyone looked at the DLR yet? What are your impression?
>
Jim Hugunin har written about the DLR in his blog:
>
http://blogs.msdn.com/hugunin/
>
To cite one of the comments: "Fuck this microsoft bollocks! You just
stole the Lisp runtime ideas and fucked them up by stupid it salesman
lingo." (Khrishna)
>
Sturla Molden

I realize this is a stupid question, but why did you cite the most
offensive comment to this blog post? Most of them were positive.

Mike

**Michel Claveau** · May 2 '07, 07:35 PM

Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

Hi!

DLR is include in SilverLight. See my message of yesterday.
For instant, DLR is for IronPython & JScript. Others languages are only
promised.

You can install SilverLight 1.1, and make your tests.

--
@-salutations

Michel Claveau

**Michel Claveau** · May 2 '07, 07:55 PM

Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

Re!

During we post messages, then blog of Jim Hugunin is updated:
http://blogs.msdn.com/hugunin/

--
@-salutations

Michel Claveau

**Ken Tilton** · May 2 '07, 10:45 PM

Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

kyosohma@gmail. com wrote:

On May 2, 1:22 pm, sturlamolden <sturlamol...@y ahoo.nowrote:
>

>>On Monday Microsoft announced a new runtime for dynamic languages,
>>which they call "DLR". It sits on top of the conventional .NET runtime
>>(CLR) and provides services for dynamically typed languages like
>>Python or Lisp (thus the cross-posting). Apparently is is distributed
>>under a BSD-like open-source license.
>>
>>I am curious to know how it performs in comparison to CPython and an
>>efficient compiled Lisp like CMUCL. Speed is a major problem with
>>CPython but not with .NET or CMUCL, so it will be interesting to see
>>how the DLR performs in comparison. It would be great to finally see a
>>Python that runs on steroids, but knowing M$ bloatware my expectations
>>are not too high.
>>
>>Has anyone looked at the DLR yet? What are your impression?
>>
>>Jim Hugunin har written about the DLR in his blog:
>>
>>http://blogs.msdn.com/hugunin/
>>
>>To cite one of the comments: "Fuck this microsoft bollocks! You just
>>stole the Lisp runtime ideas and fucked them up by stupid it salesman
>>lingo." (Khrishna)
>>
>>Sturla Molden

>
>
>
I realize this is a stupid question, but why did you cite the most
offensive comment to this blog post? Most of them were positive.

Yes, but everybody hates Microsoft, so there ya go. Anyway, here is the
real question: "thin layer"? I wonder then if anything has changed since:

429

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/2f9759fa3e8877eb/2b11ecfdc4a15fb4?q=rettig+clr&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fq%3Drettig+clr%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwg%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#2b11ecfdc4a15fb4

Anyway, doesn't matter, just fun to see MS running up the white flag
after their ballsy attempt to get CL to do the same at ILC 2005.

kt

--

http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/

"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray

"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts

"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
- Fran Lebowitz

"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
- Tim Allen

**Fuzzyman** · May 2 '07, 10:45 PM

Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

On May 2, 8:20 pm, Pascal Costanza <p...@p-cos.netwrote:

sturlamolden wrote:

On Monday Microsoft announced a new runtime for dynamic languages,
which they call "DLR". It sits on top of the conventional .NET runtime
(CLR) and provides services for dynamically typed languages like
Python or Lisp (thus the cross-posting). Apparently is is distributed
under a BSD-like open-source license.

>

I am curious to know how it performs in comparison to CPython and an
efficient compiled Lisp like CMUCL. Speed is a major problem with
CPython but not with .NET or CMUCL, so it will be interesting to see
how the DLR performs in comparison. It would be great to finally see a
Python that runs on steroids, but knowing M$ bloatware my expectations
are not too high.

>

Has anyone looked at the DLR yet? What are your impression?

>
So far, there is not a lot of information available. The only statement
about the technology I have read so far is that the DLR is a thin layer
on top of the CLR. This doesn't say a lot.
>
So it's hard to tell whether this is a (good) marketing stunt or whether
there are actual substantial improvement to the infrastructure.

Well, they're now implementing four dynamic languages on top of the
DLR - not just IronPython.

* IronPython
* IronRuby
* Java Script
* VBx (a dynamic version of VB)

The DLR provides a dynamic type system and hosting environment for
dynamic languages.

The nice part is that the DLR runs on top of the 'Core CLR' which
ships with Silverlight. This means that apps. that run in Silverlight
are secure - so you can run an IronPython console in the browser...

Fuzzyman
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/weblog/index.shtml

>
Pascal
>
--
My website:http://p-cos.net
Common Lisp Document Repository:http://cdr.eurolisp.org
Closer to MOP & ContextL:http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/

**Kaz Kylheku** · May 3 '07, 12:25 AM

Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

On May 2, 11:22 am, sturlamolden <sturlamol...@y ahoo.nowrote:

On Monday Microsoft announced a new runtime for dynamic languages,

Kindly refrain from creating any more off-topic, cross-posted threads.
Thanks.

**sturlamolden** · May 3 '07, 12:25 AM

Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

On May 3, 2:15 am, Kaz Kylheku <kkylh...@gmail .comwrote:

Kindly refrain from creating any more off-topic, cross-posted threads.
Thanks.

The only off-topic posting in this thread is your own (and now this
one).
Begone.

S.M.

**Kevin Haynes** · May 3 '07, 12:45 AM

Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

Isn't python cross platform?

On Thursday 3 May 2007, Kaz Kylheku wrote:

On May 2, 11:22 am, sturlamolden <sturlamol...@y ahoo.nowrote:

On Monday Microsoft announced a new runtime for dynamic languages,

>
Kindly refrain from creating any more off-topic, cross-posted threads.
Thanks.

**Ken Tilton** · May 3 '07, 12:55 AM

Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

sturlamolden wrote:

On May 3, 2:15 am, Kaz Kylheku <kkylh...@gmail .comwrote:
>
>

>>Kindly refrain from creating any more off-topic, cross-posted threads.
>>Thanks.

>
>
The only off-topic posting in this thread is your own (and now this
one).
Begone.

FWIW, I took Kaz's remark to be more of a joke than an actual
cease-desist thing, partly because we here recorgnize that every nod to
dynamic languages brings us one day closer to the ascendance of Common
Lisp to Its Rightful Place on the throne and all other languages being
pushed into the sea, and partly because we all actually enjoy long,
drawn-out, flamewars with other NGs.

For example, my guess is that the DLR/Iron Python just proves that the
CLR had enough chops to support a hack like Python, but not enough to
support The Greatness of Common Lisp.

See how that works?

:)

kenny

--

http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/

"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray

"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts

"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
- Fran Lebowitz

"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
- Tim Allen

**Alex Martelli** · May 3 '07, 05:15 AM

Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

Kevin Haynes <kevin.haynes@a uxilior.co.ukwr ote:

Isn't python cross platform?

Sure -- why is that relevant?

Alex

**Pascal Costanza** · May 3 '07, 06:15 AM

Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

Fuzzyman wrote:

On May 2, 8:20 pm, Pascal Costanza <p...@p-cos.netwrote:

>sturlamolden wrote:

>>On Monday Microsoft announced a new runtime for dynamic languages,
>>which they call "DLR". It sits on top of the conventional .NET runtime
>>(CLR) and provides services for dynamically typed languages like
>>Python or Lisp (thus the cross-posting). Apparently is is distributed
>>under a BSD-like open-source license.
>>I am curious to know how it performs in comparison to CPython and an
>>efficient compiled Lisp like CMUCL. Speed is a major problem with
>>CPython but not with .NET or CMUCL, so it will be interesting to see
>>how the DLR performs in comparison. It would be great to finally see a
>>Python that runs on steroids, but knowing M$ bloatware my expectations
>>are not too high.
>>Has anyone looked at the DLR yet? What are your impression?

>So far, there is not a lot of information available. The only statement
>about the technology I have read so far is that the DLR is a thin layer
>on top of the CLR. This doesn't say a lot.
>>
>So it's hard to tell whether this is a (good) marketing stunt or whether
>there are actual substantial improvement to the infrastructure.

>
Well, they're now implementing four dynamic languages on top of the
DLR - not just IronPython.
>
* IronPython
* IronRuby
* Java Script
* VBx (a dynamic version of VB)
>
The DLR provides a dynamic type system and hosting environment for
dynamic languages.
>
The nice part is that the DLR runs on top of the 'Core CLR' which
ships with Silverlight. This means that apps. that run in Silverlight
are secure - so you can run an IronPython console in the browser...

That still doesn't explain what DLR actually does. You can implement
these languages on top of the JVM as well. You could implement them on
any Turing-complete language, for that matter. The interesting question
how well integrated such an implementation is.

However, Jim Hugunin seems to be willing to give more details on his
blog - the recent entry gives hints that there is indeed something
interesting going on. I'm still waiting for the meat, though...

Pascal

--
My website: http://p-cos.net
Common Lisp Document Repository: http://cdr.eurolisp.org
Closer to MOP & ContextL: http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/

**Stefan Scholl** · May 3 '07, 07:25 AM

Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

In comp.lang.lisp sturlamolden <sturlamolden@y ahoo.nowrote:

I am curious to know how it performs in comparison to CPython and an
efficient compiled Lisp like CMUCL. Speed is a major problem with

You are not allowed to publish .NET benchmarks. :-)

--
Web (en): http://www.no-spoon.de/ -*- Web (de): http://www.frell.de/

**Edi Weitz** · May 3 '07, 07:25 AM

Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

On Thu, 3 May 2007 09:20:22 +0200, Stefan Scholl <stesch@no-spoon.dewrote:

You are not allowed to publish .NET benchmarks. :-)

I'm pretty sure that only applied to their beta releases.

--

Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny.

Real email: (replace (subseq "spamtrap@aghar ta.de" 5) "edi")

Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)

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