Cheeseshop needs mirrors

[Jon]

I'm a frequent helper in the IRC channel for the Pylons web framework.
Pylons is installed from eggs using easy_install, and when Cheeseshop
is down (or so slow it might as well be down), it gives a bad
impression of our framework and Python in general. It took us half an
hour to figure out how to bootstrap setuptools onto one person's
machine, since ez_install.py sources from the cheeseshop, and even
when we got that installed, bootstrapping the rest of Pylons was very
troublesome.

If something as widely used as eggs is going to have a single point of
failure like the Cheeseshop, we can't have it going down.

I'm sure there are other solutions, but my suggestion is simply to
have mirrors. It works for Debian, after all.

[Paul Boddie]

Re: Cheeseshop needs mirrors

On 30 Mar, 09:05, "Jon" <chai...@gmail. comwrote:

>
If something as widely used as eggs is going to have a single point of
failure like the Cheeseshop, we can't have it going down.
>
I'm sure there are other solutions, but my suggestion is simply to
have mirrors. It works for Debian, after all.

It was said that the setuptools stuff could work with simple package
index sites using static Web pages, and these could be mirrors of the
main package index, but I suppose it's time once again to remind
anyone wanting to reinvent package/dependency-management tools to take
another look at what's already been done in the domain. As you say, it
works for Debian.

Paul

[Richard Jones]

Re: Cheeseshop needs mirrors

Paul Boddie wrote:

On 30 Mar, 09:05, "Jon" <chai...@gmail. comwrote:

>>
>If something as widely used as eggs is going to have a single point of
>failure like the Cheeseshop, we can't have it going down.
>>
>I'm sure there are other solutions, but my suggestion is simply to
>have mirrors. It works for Debian, after all.

>
It was said that the setuptools stuff could work with simple package
index sites using static Web pages, and these could be mirrors of the
main package index, but I suppose it's time once again to remind
anyone wanting to reinvent package/dependency-management tools to take
another look at what's already been done in the domain. As you say, it
works for Debian.

And of course I'll reiterate the same line I always do: the Cheese Shop was
set up by a volunteer, enhanced by some other volunteers and exactly
nothing more will get done unless more volunteers offer their time.


Richard

[John Nagle]

Re: Cheeseshop needs mirrors

Richard Jones wrote:

And of course I'll reiterate the same line I always do: the Cheese Shop was
set up by a volunteer, enhanced by some other volunteers and exactly
nothing more will get done unless more volunteers offer their time.

Yup. That's why CPAN is so much better. Ook!

John Nagle

[Paul Boddie]

Re: Cheeseshop needs mirrors

Richard Jones wrote:

>
And of course I'll reiterate the same line I always do: the Cheese Shop was
set up by a volunteer, enhanced by some other volunteers and exactly
nothing more will get done unless more volunteers offer their time.

Sure. I wasn't criticising the Cheese Shop, though: it's a great
service that I make a lot of use of, and while the Vaults of Parnassus
were useful in their day, nothing matches the official package index
either in terms of usability or as a showcase for Python's relevance
in the real world.

However, if people are starting to use it as some kind of auto-
download site where potentially thousands of users acquire a release
of, say, Pylons or TurboGears and then aim their tools and start
downloading many different packages, all without being aware of the
other side of the transaction, then I think the developers of those
tools (as opposed to you and the other infrastructure volunteers) need
to step up and responsibly consider the effects that those tools have.
Some of that consideration might include evaluating how other
mechanisms for package distribution manage to work with huge numbers
of users, rather than having the package index serve up potentially
expensive pages just so that those tools can keep doing the easy
thing, for example.

Paul

P.S. I'll even volunteer to help out if that's what's needed, although
I feel fairly thinly spread already.

[Richard Jones]

Re: Cheeseshop needs mirrors

Paul Boddie wrote:

Richard Jones wrote:

>And of course I'll reiterate the same line I always do: the Cheese Shop
>was set up by a volunteer, enhanced by some other volunteers and exactly
>nothing more will get done unless more volunteers offer their time.

>
Sure. I wasn't criticising the Cheese Shop

Sorry, my comment wasn't directed at you. Your post was just a convenient
target for my reply-to button :)

However, if people are starting to use it as some kind of auto-
download site where potentially thousands of users acquire a release
of, say, Pylons or TurboGears and then aim their tools and start
downloading many different packages, all without being aware of the
other side of the transaction, then I think the developers of those
tools (as opposed to you and the other infrastructure volunteers) need
to step up and responsibly consider the effects that those tools have.

Indeed :)


Richard

[John J. Lee]

Re: Cheeseshop needs mirrors

Richard Jones <richardjones@o ptushome.com.au writes:
[...]

And of course I'll reiterate the same line I always do: the Cheese Shop was
set up by a volunteer, enhanced by some other volunteers and exactly
nothing more will get done unless more volunteers offer their time.

PyPI has "just worked" for me, so thanks for the work you've put into
it.

My theory is that if an open-source project is fairly new and
unstable, you'll often get lots of people saying nice things about it
hoping to get help. Then if it gets better, people shut up, since it
just does its job. Then they get used to it just working, and start
giving abuse instead of praise when it doesn't do everything they
want.

I still occasionally get praise for my open source stuff, so I figure
I've got a long way to go ;-)


John