WSDL?

[tobiah]

Is WSDL the right answer for in house communication
between programs written in different languages, or
is it more for publishing interfaces for use by parties
outside your own company?

What else is available for sharing complex structures
with processes running programs that were written in
other languages?

Thanks,

Toby

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[Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch]

Re: WSDL?

In <454ba334$0$121 10$88260bb3@fre e.teranews.com> , tobiah wrote:

What else is available for sharing complex structures
with processes running programs that were written in
other languages?

Corba?

Ciao,
Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch

[WakeBdr]

Re: WSDL?

XMLRPC and SOAP are the two I'm working with right now.


tobiah wrote:

Is WSDL the right answer for in house communication
between programs written in different languages, or
is it more for publishing interfaces for use by parties
outside your own company?
>
What else is available for sharing complex structures
with processes running programs that were written in
other languages?
>
Thanks,
>
Toby
>
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[tobiah]

Re: WSDL?

I recently wrote a SOAP client(?) to read what the guy from
the other company called a WSDL, which was just a URL that
served an XML API description. Is that the same as XMLRPC
(I ask because you mention SOAP).

Thanks,

Toby

WakeBdr wrote:

XMLRPC and SOAP are the two I'm working with right now.
>
>
tobiah wrote:

>Is WSDL the right answer for in house communication
>between programs written in different languages, or
>is it more for publishing interfaces for use by parties
>outside your own company?
>>
>What else is available for sharing complex structures
>with processes running programs that were written in
>other languages?
>>
>Thanks,
>>
>Toby
>>
>--
>Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

>

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Paddy]

Re: WSDL?


tobiah wrote:

Is WSDL the right answer for in house communication
between programs written in different languages, or
is it more for publishing interfaces for use by parties
outside your own company?
>
What else is available for sharing complex structures
with processes running programs that were written in
other languages?
>
Thanks,
>
Toby
>
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

What languages?
What OS's?
- Pad.

[soring@gmail.com]

Re: WSDL?

WSDL is a way to describe a webservice (using a XML dialect) in terms
of: operations (that have input and output messages) and endpoints (the
actual URL to access the webservice).

When you accessed your other guy's URL, the "XML API description" you
got back was the actual WSDL. So it wasnt' that the URL he gave you was
the WSDL, but the actual XML.

SOAP is another XML dialect: one sends SOAP messages to the enpoints
defined in a WSDL to access a webservice. Usually, the messages defined
in a WSDL are the same as the SOAP body part.

So WSDL is a very strict way to define webservice APIs, and it covers a
lot of aspects of webservices (it has extensions for transactions,
security, reliable messaging, etc).

By contrast, XMLRPC is a much more loose standard to send data around
the web in XML format - it doesn't attempt to regulate too many aspects
of webservices, so it's easier to understand and use to start with.

To answer your first question as well: to use WSDL for in-house
communication sounds like a lot of overkill to me - but on the other
hand, if you ever plan to externalize that data (say your company
decides to publish some internal module X as a webservice), than it's
good to use WSDL to start with.

This is the theory :-) Before deciding what standard to use, make sure
that your programming language/framework supports it well, otherwise
it's no fun.

Sorin


tobiah wrote:

I recently wrote a SOAP client(?) to read what the guy from
the other company called a WSDL, which was just a URL that
served an XML API description. Is that the same as XMLRPC
(I ask because you mention SOAP).
>
Thanks,
>
Toby
>
WakeBdr wrote:

XMLRPC and SOAP are the two I'm working with right now.


tobiah wrote:

Is WSDL the right answer for in house communication
between programs written in different languages, or
is it more for publishing interfaces for use by parties
outside your own company?
>
What else is available for sharing complex structures
with processes running programs that were written in
other languages?
>
Thanks,
>
Toby
>
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

>
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Jorge Vargas]

Re: WSDL?

On 11/3/06, tobiah <st@tobiah.orgw rote:

Is WSDL the right answer for in house communication
between programs written in different languages, or
is it more for publishing interfaces for use by parties
outside your own company?
>

at work we use webservices (which is a better name) a lot for
"inhouse" but I work at a big company where other people look like if
they where another company ;)

as soring explained WSDL is a languaje to tell you what to do. the
idea behind it is that anyone can take it read it and write a client
for your service without even having help your your team.

so yes it can or as other people said you could just go with a lossier
webservice interface based on xmlrpc.

and please please don't go to corba we need to kill that.

[Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch]

Re: WSDL?

In <mailman.1762.1 162647487.11739 .python-list@python.org >, Jorge Vargas
wrote:

and please please don't go to corba we need to kill that.

Have you real reasons or is this a religious thing? As I see it Corba is
much better supported by Python libs than SOAP is.

Ciao,
Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch

[Jorge Vargas]

Re: WSDL?

On 11/4/06, Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch <bj_666@gmx.net wrote:

In <mailman.1762.1 162647487.11739 .python-list@python.org >, Jorge Vargas
wrote:
>

and please please don't go to corba we need to kill that.

>
Have you real reasons or is this a religious thing? As I see it Corba is
much better supported by Python libs than SOAP is.
>

I see ZSI as a very good engine for SOAP as for xmlrpc it's "better"
since you can interact with a browser and then you can even have json
rpc.

but yes ur right is mostly because of religious reasons :)

Ciao,
Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch
--

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

>

[Steve Holden]

Re: WSDL?

Jorge Vargas wrote:

On 11/4/06, Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch <bj_666@gmx.net wrote:
>

>>In <mailman.1762.1 162647487.11739 .python-list@python.org >, Jorge Vargas
>>wrote:
>>
>>

>>>and please please don't go to corba we need to kill that.

>>
>>Have you real reasons or is this a religious thing? As I see it Corba is
>>much better supported by Python libs than SOAP is.
>>

>
I see ZSI as a very good engine for SOAP as for xmlrpc it's "better"
since you can interact with a browser and then you can even have json
rpc.
>
but yes ur right is mostly because of religious reasons :)
>

When SOAP can do everything that Corba can do, and as efficiently, it
might stand a chance of displacing it. I see SOAP as essentially an ugly
bloated NIH response of the Microsoft camp to an open specification that
achieved all its goals in an elegant way. And all to allow inappropriate
remote-method execution through port 80 to avoid the corporate firewall.
Which ultimately just made firewalling port 80 that much more difficult.

Microsoft is a poor church, and very uncaring of its adherents. So take
your religious reasons and leave Corba alone until SOAP is an effective
competitor ;-)

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb http://holdenweb.blogspot.com
Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

[Jorge Vargas]

Re: WSDL?

On 11/4/06, Steve Holden <steve@holdenwe b.comwrote:

Jorge Vargas wrote:

On 11/4/06, Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch <bj_666@gmx.net wrote:

>In <mailman.1762.1 162647487.11739 .python-list@python.org >, Jorge Vargas
>wrote:
>
>
>>and please please don't go to corba we need to kill that.
>
>Have you real reasons or is this a religious thing? As I see it Corba is
>much better supported by Python libs than SOAP is.
>

I see ZSI as a very good engine for SOAP as for xmlrpc it's "better"
since you can interact with a browser and then you can even have json
rpc.

but yes ur right is mostly because of religious reasons :)

When SOAP can do everything that Corba can do, and as efficiently, it
might stand a chance of displacing it. I see SOAP as essentially an ugly
bloated NIH response of the Microsoft camp to an open specification that
achieved all its goals in an elegant way. And all to allow inappropriate
remote-method execution through port 80 to avoid the corporate firewall.
Which ultimately just made firewalling port 80 that much more difficult.
>

I have to disagree WSDL is a great standard and SOAP is great for
transfering data from point a to point b. and it's very usefull for
giving an interface for people to use like all those web2.0 api's out
there.

I agree on setting a server on port 80 to be a problem but that's a
deployment issue I have never set a SOAP server on port 80 myself.

Microsoft is a poor church, and very uncaring of its adherents. So take
your religious reasons and leave Corba alone until SOAP is an effective
competitor ;-)
>

I'm sorry it's probably that I have seen some many bad Corba
implementations at work that I just hate them. I recently found out
that gnome applets are implemented on top of Corba and I'm very
impress.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb http://holdenweb.blogspot.com
Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden
>
--

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

>

[Paul Boddie]

Re: WSDL?

Jorge Vargas wrote:

>

[quotefest trimmed]

I have to disagree WSDL is a great standard and SOAP is great for
transfering data from point a to point b. and it's very usefull for
giving an interface for people to use like all those web2.0 api's out
there.

Well, unless you're dealing with some kind of multipoint communications
architecture, SOAP isn't really much better than just firing plain XML
documents over HTTP from A to B, although my preferred use-cases for
SOAP don't involve the RPC style of messaging that most people think of
when SOAP is mentioned, so I guess you could benefit from SOAP (plus
WSDL) if you do really care about RPC. However, one thing CORBA has
going for it is maturity: the basic standards aren't in flux, and there
are a number of acceptable implementations out there.

Paul

[soring@gmail.com]

Re: WSDL?

CORBA may work fine in an intranet environment, where you can control
the server and the client, but it clearly failed to be a popular choice
on the internet: have you seen any company offering webservices with a
CORBA interface??
The main 2 choices that companies offering webservices seem to have are
REST (Yahoo, Amazon, Google) and SOAP (Amazon, Google).

And no, SOAP is not a Microsoft thing anymore: it's a standard
supported by a lot of large companies (and neither Amazon nor Google
are Microsoft shops, as far as I know).
The reason SOAP moved away from the pure RPC model is because it needed
to support the more modern and flexible distributed computing paradigm
which is "message based", not "RPC based".

But yeah, I fully agree that SOAP is very complicated, and the support
for it is pretty poor.

Sorin

Steve Holden wrote:

Jorge Vargas wrote:

On 11/4/06, Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch <bj_666@gmx.net wrote:

>In <mailman.1762.1 162647487.11739 .python-list@python.org >, Jorge Vargas
>wrote:
>
>
>>and please please don't go to corba we need to kill that.
>
>Have you real reasons or is this a religious thing? As I see it Corba is
>much better supported by Python libs than SOAP is.
>

I see ZSI as a very good engine for SOAP as for xmlrpc it's "better"
since you can interact with a browser and then you can even have json
rpc.

but yes ur right is mostly because of religious reasons :)

When SOAP can do everything that Corba can do, and as efficiently, it
might stand a chance of displacing it. I see SOAP as essentially an ugly
bloated NIH response of the Microsoft camp to an open specification that
achieved all its goals in an elegant way. And all to allow inappropriate
remote-method execution through port 80 to avoid the corporate firewall.
Which ultimately just made firewalling port 80 that much more difficult.
>
Microsoft is a poor church, and very uncaring of its adherents. So take
your religious reasons and leave Corba alone until SOAP is an effective
competitor ;-)
>
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb http://holdenweb.blogspot.com
Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

[Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch]

Re: WSDL?

In <1162690242.646 530.23220@h54g2 000cwb.googlegr oups.com>,
soring@gmail.co m wrote:

CORBA may work fine in an intranet environment, where you can control
the server and the client, but it clearly failed to be a popular choice
on the internet: have you seen any company offering webservices with a
CORBA interface??

The OP wanted something for in-house communication between programs. You
are right that CORBA is not a popular choice for offering "webservice s"
for the masses but there used to be companies that offered CORBA
interfaces in the "business to business" arena when the word "webservice "
was yet to be invented.

A huge part of the SOAP popularity comes from marketing and shoving down
the buzzwords "webservice s" and "XML" down everyone's throat and has
nothing to do with technical advantages or disadvantages. Well, IMHO at
least.

Ciao,
Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch